Regarding Precious Cargo quest (Spoilers)

[Scholdarr.452]

And the Northern Kingdom is perfect? The monarchs aren't just as bad as the Nilfgaardians?

Who said that the Northern Kingdoms are perfect. They are as good or bad as other countries. I don't believe in kin liability but in human motives...

Nothing is really neutral in this situation. You hand a murderer over to the Nilfgaards or let him go with medicine to help the Temerians.

No. What you do is handing over a person who hasn't done YOU any harm to another force that will most likely torture and kill him. In that way you take the roles of police, prosecutor and judge although you are actually none of that. You clearly take sides for the Nilfgaardians.

Both parties are equally shit. Taking the medicine is the most neutral choice, but it also deprives both parties of what they need.

No, it's not. The real neutral choice is just to walk on, staying away from the conflict, not acting like you were police and prosecutor and judge. You get out as you got in, empty handed. If you hadn't come that way the Temerian would likely have asked another person to retrieve the box with medicine. It's not your TASK to get involved in.

Soldiers? The guy was wearing clothes, not armor. He was unprotected and alone. That wasn't a supply line, it was a delivery. The medicine was being used to ease the pain of dying soldiers. I don't know how that strengthens their army. Killing a man on their way to deliver medicine to help the dying isn't very innocent nor does it help the Northern Kingdoms.

Of course he wears no armor. He is a lone warrior in an occupied country. Wearing armor or even Temerian signs would be suicidal.

And every delivery to a military camp and for military purpose is military supply by the very nature of its definition. It doesn't matter if it's medicine or weapons or whatever. If the stuff is used by military forces for military means and/or forces it's military supply. And of course the medicine is supposed to be used to strengthen the Nilfgaardian armor. The Temerian guy cannot know that the medicine is only used to ease dying. He probably thought that it is used to cure Nilfgaardian soldiers so that they can fight again. Taking away their medicine might looks brute, but it's the same when you take away food in a siege. Or do you also claim that raiding food supply for military purpose is no cut of the supply line and doesn't harm the forces?

He's a coward AND a murderer (like most soldiers in The Witcher series). Bodies will pile up either way as there's a war going on. Both sides are not innocent.

Nobody claims that one side is innocent. That's completely not the point. The decision isn't whether the guy is guilty of anything. The decision is actually whether you think you're the one who should decide about his fate. I don't think you have the legal and definitely not the moral right to do so. And if you want to stay neutral it would also be against your principles. Again, your not a Nilfgaardian police officer or prosecutor. It's not your job to hunt down Temerian guerillas and handing them over to Nilfgaardian forces. At least not if you want to stay neutral and tell me that you don't collaborate with Nilfgaard.

And by the way, handing the guy over to a force that has no legal right to judge on him just because he lied to you is not justice. It's just bloody vengeance. But it would be more human to just kill the guy right away. That way you would at least spare him the probable torture.

---------- Updated at 05:39 PM ----------

Everyone underestimates witchers. From ordinary soldiers and peasants to magicians and bounty hunters. They never learn.

And I never said that everyone in the North is the worst scum imaginable. But not everyone is a saint either. We've seen normal soldiers do all sorts of atrocities, even for lesser reasons. Some soldiers claim they are no murderers and wouldn't touch a civilian, while others are okay with raping and pillaging.
This particular Temerian doesn't strike me as an honest and "good" soldier. Yet I also believe that he'd do anything for his comrades-in-arms. Again, would such a man kill one civilian if it meant saving his squad and continuing the fight against Nilfgaard?

Short answer: we don't know.

But apparently the possibility is enough for you to prejudge the guy based on some sort of kin liability or based on "first sight" aka "That guy doesn't look like a good person." That's both superficial and morally questionable if you ask me. The simple fact is that we don't know neither the guy nor the full story. It's cruel and inhuman to literally sentence the guy to death (and therefore playing prosecutor and judge in one person) in less than five minutes. As I said before it would be more human to just kill the guy right on the spot if you think he's guilty just because he lied to you and because he "doesn't look like a good person"...

 

[Mekari]

Woudn't that mean you give the medicine to Nilfgaard??

That is uncertain, we will not really know until we play it.

 

[IronsteffL]

Being german, of course I read the Witcher 3 preview by Gamestar and it was this quest they chose as an example for how they could play out. I've been thinking alot about it, since Gamestar wrote that, if you don't catch him in time, he reaches his camp and you get attacked by all of his comrades. They didn't tell if they were temerian soldiers though. And that's the crux of the matter: mistrust and uncertainty.

1) He tells the truth, even though he was lying about the cart. After all, you could be siding with Nilfgaard, which would mean pain and death if he told the truth. I would let him go with the medicine. Maybe it's because of the books, the predecessors or King Foltest, but I like Temeria, and I don't like Nilfgaard - except as great, powerful antagonists (it's no coincidence the place where the whole conflict started was called Glevitzingen - Nilfgaard IS related to the Third Reich). And from my Geralt's point of view, they are, directly and indirectly, responsible for a lot of his personal trouble. At least he wouldn't go on and help them in any way whatsoever. For frightening, hurting and almost killing Ciri, planning to kill Geralt and Yen and torturing Triss (don't tell me it wasn't personal - it may or may not have been, but my Geralt doesn't care), they still have it coming big time!

2) He is lying and flees straight to a bandit camp or something. Maybe I would still let him go, but take the medicine for myself to hand them over to people who really need them. There are a lot of villages in White Orchard which look desolate at best, so there should be no shortage of potential reciepients. Fuelling a war isn't one of my Geralt's intentions. Easing the suffering of the smallfolk sounds better to me in any case - after all, young Geralt dreamt about being a knight errant, so that would be a good opportunity for him to live out this fantasy.

In any case, I'm thrilled about the fact that I won't have the time to think about things like that in the heat of the moment. I can't wait for the trouble my gut feelings will get me into!

 

[OliverDK]

It's a thread like this amazing. It simply goes to show that CDPR is doing something right when a even a "simple" side quest can lead to such a diverse discussion as we have here. I can't wait to get my hands on this epic game and get put into these type of situations that test my morale and conscience to the limit.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I think many people miss the similarities between Nilfgaard and the Third Reich (non-book readers are excused here). But they are acutally quite obvious...

 

[Klavi]

But apparently the possibility is enough for you to prejudge the guy based on some sort of kin liability or based on "first sight" aka "That guy doesn't look like a good person." That's both superficial and morally questionable if you ask me. The simple fact is that we don't know neither the guy nor the full story. It's cruel and inhuman to literally sentence the guy to death (and therefore playing prosecutor and judge in one person) in less than five minutes. As I said before it would be more human to just kill the guy right on the spot if you think he's guilty just because he lied to you and because he "doesn't look like a good person"...

Wait, what? I don't know why you'd think that I'm going to judge him, execute him on the spot OR hand him over to the Nilfs. I never even said anything like that.
In my opinion, the Temerian is not trustworthy, as he tries to fool you not once, but twice, possibly intending to attack you if you fall for it. Because of that alone, I see no reason to entrust him the meds, but it's still not quite enough to kill him on the spot. Most likely, I'll just spare him and take the meds to return it to the Nilfs or someone else who needs it.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Wait, what? I don't know why you'd think that I'm going to judge him, execute him on the spot OR hand him over to the Nilfs. I never even said anything like that.
In my opinion, the Temerian is not trustworthy, as he tries to fool you not once, but twice, possibly intending to attack you if you fall for it. Because of that alone, I see no reason to entrust him the meds, but it's still not quite enough to kill him on the spot. Most likely, I'll just spare him and take the meds to return it to the Nilfs or someone else who needs it.

Hm, sorry, I might have misread one of your previous posts then.

 

[Lieste]

I think many people miss the similarities between Nilfgaard and the Third Reich (non-book readers are excused here). But they are acutally quite obvious...

I really don't see this at all. They don't consider other people to be untermensch, don't perform progroms or racial (or other) cleansing.

They seem more aligned with Rome, a civilising, if expansionist and less than entirely culturally sensitive "superpower" or collection of aligned states.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I really don't see this at all. They don't consider other people to be untermensch, don't perform progroms or racial (or other) cleansing.

They seem more aligned with Rome, a civilising, if expansionist and less than entirely culturally sensitive "superpower" or collection of aligned states.

You never asked yourself why their armor was all black?

And of course there are pogroms all over the Witcher world, not only in Nilfgaard.

Given Poland's history the Third Reich comparison is quite obvious. If you ask me Sapkowski created the Northern Kingdoms as medieval Poland while Nilfgaard is more like the combination of ideas and elements of the HRE and the Third Reich (and maybe even the Soviet Union). And maybe some elements of the Roman Empire as well. But not literally of course, just aspects of it. Of course nothing is a 1:1 copy.

And no, Nilfgaard is not "civilizing". There is nothing to "civilize" what could be compared to Roman expansion...

 

[Lightice]

They seem more aligned with Rome, a civilising, if expansionist and less than entirely culturally sensitive "superpower" or collection of aligned states.

Civilising? Rome? The Roman Empire had absolutely no problem with exterminating or overtaking cultures just as advanced as their own. The assumption that they were improving people's lot by Romanising them is nothing but cultural supremacism, absorbed from the Romans' own writings. The Romans, for example, loved to portray the Gauls as wild savages, but archaeological evidence shows that they lived in a well-organised society with more advanced farming techniques than the Romans had, as well as had cities of their own. All they lacked in comparison to Rome was martial unity.

 

[IronsteffL]

I really don't see this at all. They don't consider other people to be untermensch, don't perform progroms or racial (or other) cleansing.

They seem more aligned with Rome, a civilising, if expansionist and less than entirely culturally sensitive "superpower" or collection of aligned states.

"Among one might say guests in the north is ambassador Shilard, who represents the Nilfgaardian Empire, that is a very powerful country from the south. Nilfgaard. Totalitarianism. We wanted it to remind people of conquistadors, of the Third Reich, of, I don't know, the empire of evil".

That's a direct quote from CD Projekt REDs story writers and concept artists. And the fact that a polish (!) author called the place where a huge war started Glevitzingen (!!), which sounds almost like Gleivitz, where World War II started with the invasion of Poland, supports the notion of CDPR. There are many similiarities to the Roman Empire, I absolutely concur, but I'd say that's only because of the similiar epochs (weapons, armor, tactics etc.).

 

[Kinley]

You never asked yourself why their armor was all black?

And of course there are pogroms all over the Witcher world, not only in Nilfgaard.

Given Poland's history the Third Reich comparison is quite obvious. If you ask me Sapkowski created the Northern Kingdoms as medieval Poland while Nilfgaard is more like the combination of ideas and elements of the HRE and the Third Reich (and maybe even the Soviet Union). And maybe some elements of the Roman Empire as well. But not literally of course, just aspects of it. Of course nothing is a 1:1 copy.

And no, Nilfgaard is not "civilizing". There is nothing to "civilize" what could be compared to Roman expansion...

Myself I imagined Nilfgaard rather as Rome with its pax romana, Northern Kingdoms as Gauls or Britons, but your paralell could work as well.

Source

 

[Luxorek]

Let him free and let him keep the medicine.

I actually don't like how CPDR wrote that part of the quest shown in the video when Geralt hands him over to the blacks. It's imho highly questionable to call the guy a murderer. He is a Temerian soldier who killed a Nilfgaardian soldier in a war between those factions on Temerian soil. Temeria is occupied by Nilfgaard and Nilfgaard were the aggressors and invaders. If you ask me, that's not murder, that's just war. That's defending your home country. The guy that got killed was no civilian. He was an enemy soldier in a country his party invaded. So Geralt's line of thought and what he says to defend his decision makes no sense in my books.

In no way my Geralt would ever help the Nilfgaardians if there was no damn good reason for that. That's imho not the case here. Don't forget: Nilfgaard are the bad guys here. Every dead Nilfgaardian is a good Nilfgaardian.

Unless...

Spoiler

The guy is lying, he is no soldier and simply a highwayman. I wonder if there is a way to somehow verify his claims.

 

[DukeAlmighty]

Nilfgaard will probably bring more good than bad in longer term and now that they're there... I mean kind of like the roman empire long ago. They brought security and prosperity to the lands that they conquered.

You mean like USSR brought prosperity to Eastern Europe ?

 

[zkorejo]

I will let him go.. I just cant decide if I should let him leave with the medicine or not. Nilfgaardians said the medicine wouldnt heal their soldiers but only help them die easily.. the Temerian soldiers could be saved by that.

Its understandable to let the guy leave with the medicine but who knows.. maybe the guy lied again and maybe he wasnt a Temerian soldier but just a common thief.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Source

Thanks for the source. But as Sapkowski said himself, other parallels/element can work as well. In the end, Nilfgaard is Nilfgaard and I'm pretty sure Sapkowski had many ideas in mind while creating them with Rome probably being one of the strongest motives.

But I'm still convinced that at least the black armors are a wanted resemblance to the Wehrmacht or SS.

 

[wichat]

Thanks gods, there'll be always a Herrmann facing invasors

 

[Kinley]

Thanks for the source. But as Sapkowski said himself, other parallels/element can work as well.

I'm pretty sure he said the other person's parallel worked, and not all in general.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I'm pretty sure he said the other person's parallel worked, and not all in general.

Of course. But he also didn't exclude any other possible motives...

 

[Luxorek]

Source

Yeaaaah, I'm not convinced.

In the books Nilfgaardian divisions have names like 'Army Group Middle' or 'Army Group North' which are ripped from Wehrmacht on WWII Eastern Front.

Then you have Glevitzingen [attack on this fort began Nilgaardian invasion], which is a clear allusion to Gleiwitz incident that started WWII.

AND then you have the black-silver uniforms, which again harken back to SS uniforms.

AND then you have Nilfgaardian tactics descriptions from the books that emphasize fast infantry movement reinforced by heavy cavalry [aka tanks]

AND then you have Nilgaard and Kaedwen splitting Aedirn apart, just like Nazi Germany and USRR did with Poland during WWII.

And you could go on and on. I never thought of Nilgaard as Rome, especially not with those Germanic sounding names they have