Reinforced Trebuchet is a little... UNFAIR!!!

[Whitemage8779]

Reinforced Trebuchet is a little... UNFAIR!!!

I'm not usually one to say OP, but there's a Yennefer Gold card with 4 str that will randomly get rid of 1 str of your opponents cards every round... It's a Gold card so it's cool and annoying but nothing wrong with that, my problem is with the Reinforced Trebuchet cards! It's ONLY a bronze with 6 str and get rid of 1 str of your opponents cards every round. EVERY ROUND! BRONZE CARD!! 6 STR!!! Not only is it MUCH superior to Yennefer's in every way, it can actually be buffed, copied and revived!! Not to mention you can have more than 1... HOW THE HELL IS THAT FAIR!?!

 

[NatoGreavesy]

I'm... on the fence about this.

On the one hand, the old reinforced trebuchet ability was a little too slow and unpredictable, unless you had a lot of them on the field at once, or your opponent had very few cards in play.

On the other hand, the new ability just seems like too much, especially given that a lot of people seem to enjoy playing them right alongside Yen:Con. It's not unbeatable, to any extent, but it does feel a little excessive.

 

[Whitemage8779]

The biggest problem I have with them is they're not easy to kill and they're BRONZE!!

 

[Tamacountry13]

Yennefer is better as it's Gold so her only weakness really is Shackles, She also only hits the highest unit and if they're even it can hit multiple.
IMO they should be either 4 base str with their current ability, Would allow them to be killed by Venom/Triss. They'll need to be on the field for 4 turns to get the basic value of a bronze unit.

 

[arz0]

I'm also on the fence here.
I don't think their ability should be changed however I do think 6 strength is little high.
particularity when NR has Triss: Butterfly Spell - Keadweni Siege Expert - Dandelion - Promote

 

[Anen]

the new ability just seems like too much, especially given that a lot of people seem to enjoy playing them right alongside Yen:Con. It's not unbeatable, to any extent, but it does feel a little excessive.

maybe yen con come with limitation like can target 2 cards maximum. -2 STR every turn is much.

It's ONLY a bronze with 6 str and get rid of 1 str of your opponents cards every round.

lets count how much STR they can remove till the end of round:
Maxium : 4 Trebuchet x 6 STR = 24 STR
Reduce STR : 4 Trebuchet x 4 STR losing x 11 turn = - 176 STR reducing
Total : 200 STR advantage

 

[IAxiiYourMother]

Reinforced Trebuchet is one of my favorite cards in the game because it really does give the feeling of being artillery that is bombarding the enemies side of the board. This is one of the first cards I will ohh and aah at after the visual effects update. I think CDPR found a sweat spot with he ability feeling impactful, while not being overly oppressive. The value it generates in a long round is too high though and I would be comfortable seeing it moved to 5 for maybe even 4 STR.

R.T. is a lot less valuable in round 2 and 3 though as these rounds are not as long. Theoretically it would balance itself out by being a sub-par card if drawn in these rounds, but the issue is that NR have tools upon tools to tutor them out of their deck consistently round 1. They are on the strong side, but not completely out of line if we look at bronze cards in other factions that can be just as 'OP' in the correct context.

<field trip>
My big issue is that NR still feels like a thematically meh faction after the patch, and unless they become the artillery faction R.T. doesn't help their case. Every faction has one or two core identities that make them feel unique. Ambush, spies, wounding, consume, and..... I'm going to flood my board with bronze cards and play Priscilla 8 times. Henselt decks are fine I guess, but if your going with a golden theme for NR then we may as well just remove the other leaders and redesign the other cards in the faction to reflect that.
<and we're back>

Yen Con is not comparable to R.T. as it will typically generate a lot more value by hitting multiple cards (and leveling units for insane Gigni value if you run him). R.T. tend to have the opposite effect by miss-aligning units. I can see how they are frustrating when used in conjunction, but Yen Con is definitely the superior card. You need to play around her, where as you typically just ignore R.T. and continue with your strategy.

 

[reliusclover]

They are pretty annoying, and i dont want to be wasting Alzur Thunder only to have it resurrected by a mere medic, but NR has to be amazing somehow.

 

[4RM3D]

lets count how much STR they can remove till the end of round:
Maxium : 4 Trebuchet x 6 STR = 24 STR
Reduce STR : 4 Trebuchet x 4 STR losing x 11 turn = - 176 STR reducing
Total : 200 STR advantage

That's the theoretical maximum and the best case scenario. You should look at the average instead. On average the Reinforced Trebuchet still gets more value in most cases than a bronze should have. Reducing their strength to 4 would be a good compromise.

 

[Treamayne]

That's the theoretical maximum and the best case scenario. You should look at the average instead. On average the Reinforced Trebuchet still gets more value in most cases than a bronze should have. Reducing their strength to 4 would be a good compromise.

I could also see it going back to a timer of 1 (they do have to reload). Timer three was way too long, every turn is a bit too short. Either the STR or Timer change would help, I think.

 

[arz0]

lets count how much STR they can remove till the end of round:
Maxium : 4 Trebuchet x 6 STR = 24 STR
Reduce STR : 4 Trebuchet x 4 STR losing x 11 turn = - 176 STR reducing
Total : 200 STR advantage

Urr.... Not correct.

you don't need to multiply by 4 twice.

the maximum value for 1 trebuchet over 11 turns is 17 value.
multiply that by 4 trebuchets and total value is 68 not 200

still high for a bronze card though.

 

[panerola]

lets count how much STR they can remove till the end of round: Maxium : 4 Trebuchet x 6 STR = 24 STR Reduce STR : 4 Trebuchet x 4 STR losing x 11 turn = - 176 STR reducing Total : 200 STR advantage

Urr.... Not correct.
you don't need to multiply by 4 twice.
the maximum value for 1 trebuchet over 11 turns is 17 value. multiply that by 4 trebuchets and total value is 68 not 200
still high for a bronze card though.

And you cannot play 4 of them from turn 1, 1x11, 1x10turns, 1x9turns, 1x8turns...wich makes 62 points for 4 bronze cards. You can always pass, lock, kill,.... But I agree that it is annoying right now, for a bronze card.

 

[DEERCG]

When I see NR nowadays, I already know they have Reinforced Trebuchet. So that mean this card is something wrong with it. Imo, unbalance with other card in NR faction. Gwent must balance all card as not too strong or not too weak just in a right way to use. They do good with Promote recently. But some other just mess up.

 

[Treamayne]

And you cannot play 4 of them from turn 1, 1x11, 1x10turns, 1x9turns, 1x8turns...which makes 62 points for 4 bronze cards. You can always pass, lock, kill,.... But I agree that it is annoying right now, for a bronze card.

Well first turn won't count since the first RT won't trigger until the start of your next turn. With Reinforcements, 1x10, 2x9, 1x8 (Foltest) or 1x10, 1x9 (Foltest) and 2x8 are possible. Best Worst) case scenario would then become 60 assuming no removal and the round goes all 11 turns (unlikely):


06 - Turn 1 6
13 - Turn 2 6+6+1
09 - Turn 3 6+3
32 - Turn 4-11 4 (ea)
----
60 total

At 4 STR per RT:
04 - Turn 1 4
09 - Turn 2 4+4+1
07 - Turn 3 4+3
32 - Turn 4-11 4 (ea)
----
52 total

At Timer 2 (every other turn)
06 - Turn 1 6
12 - Turn 2 6+6
07 - Turn 3 6+1
16 - Turn 4-11 2 (ea)
----
41 total

 

[Anen]

you don't need to multiply by 4 twice.

oh my bad

Well first turn won't count since the first RT won't trigger until the start of your next turn.

i have try it and it triggers before the start of your next turn which mean turn 1 is counted (count 11)

And you cannot play 4 of them from turn 1, 1x11, 1x10turns, 1x9turns, 1x8turns...wich makes 62 points for 4 bronze cards. You can always pass, lock, kill,.... But I agree that it is annoying right now, for a bronze card.

i will make it clear my love

Reinforced Trebuchet

Removing STR one per turn:
- With 6 STR
Maximum : 6 STR x 4 Trebuchet = 24
Reducing STR : (1 Tre x 1 STR reducing x 11 turn) + (1 Tre x 1 STR reducing x 10 turn) + (1 Tre x 1 STR reducing x 9 turn) + (1 Tre x 1 STR reducing x 8 turn) = 38
Total : 62 STR
- With 4 STR
Maximum : 4 x 4 = 16
Reducing STR : 38
Total : 54

Removing STR one every 2 turn:
- With 6 STR
Maximum : 6 x 4 = 24
Reducing STR : (1 x 1 x 9) + .... + (1 x 1 x 6) = 30
Total : 54
- With 4 STR
Maximum : 4 x 4 = 16
Reducing STR : 30
Total 46

as you can see there is no significant different Tre with 4 or with 6 two turn.

 

[TheAnhsor]

perhaps CDPR should bring their STR down to 5 to start. see how things go from there?

 

[soph912]

I don't think the Trebuchet are too strong. With Nilfgaard you can steal them even from the opponents graveyard and use them against the trebuchet player himself.
Against NR promote it depends whether you can setup some siege towers quickly enough and promote them to gold or not.
Yen:Con is still too strong for a 200 scrap card since she can't be removed by Vernon Roche and Radovid now and she always hits all units with the highest strength per turn which is devastating if there are no d-Shackles available.

 

[Whitemage8779]

I actually like the idea of the Trebs having to reload with at least 1 round, that + 4 str would make them MUCH more tolerable. At the moment they just bombard you and are near indestructible with all the buffs/medics/etc you'd need VERY specific cards to take them out and who the hell has the time for that?

 

[soph912]

I actually like the idea of the Trebs having to reload with at least 1 round, that + 4 str would make them MUCH more tolerable. At the moment they just bombard you and are near indestructible with all the buffs/medics/etc you'd need VERY specific cards to take them out and who the hell has the time for that?

Currently one Manticore Special card takes out 3 unpromoted siege towers. Is that balanced?? The Trebuchets are useless if they can be taken out that easily.

 

[Whitemage8779]

Currently one Manticore Special card takes out 3 unpromoted siege towers. Is that balanced?? The Trebuchets are useless if they can be taken out that easily.

Are you referring to Manticore Venom which removes 4 str from 3 adjacent cards? Cause that WON'T Kill the Reinforced Trebs, since they have 6 STR!! It'll usually cost +2 cards to destroy 1+ Reinforced Trebs unless you have that one card which deals 7 damage.
I don't care about the normal Trebs, they're fine, i'm refering to the REINFORCED TREBUCHETS!! Which have 6 str and deals 1 damage to any of your cards... EVERY! ROUND!!