Rep, street cred, and making a name for yourself.

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All things considered, factions are the most generic thing I can think of when it comes to reputation. Not saying there shouldn't be faction mechanics in CP2077, don't get me wrong - I want it, and I want it as complex as the devs can possibly make it. But what I'd like even more is to create something different, a reputation mechanics that doesn't only come down to determining how much each given faction likes you. Most NPCs you'll meet in the game will not be affiliated with any faction in the first place, after all.

I'd also like if you could earn rep without having to complete quests (jobs, whatever); reputation should not be a reward, but a derivative of your activities. Most games implement the fact in only one way: if you attack someone, your relations with a given faction gets damaged, or if the attacked person is but a poor unaffiliated NPC, some kind of law enforcement will voice their opinion on the deed. Obviously, that's the easiest way to implement it, but it's one side of the coin, ergo the whole thing is lame.

It'd be nice, for instance, to help a random NPC that's getting mugged on the street, or get yourself mugged (and suffer ridicule), or even earn your Badass title when you win a though battle (with 'toughness' determined by things like disparity of power between you and your assailants, hardware used, damage taken, damage dealt, time it took to resolve the situation, how it was resolved (killing you foes, stunning them...), etc.). In Skyrim it doesn't matter whether you kill a mammoth or a friggin' mudcrab. Is it cool? The hell it is. I'd like for the world to get to the streets, be it good or bad. Which, in turn, could open new possibilities.

I know what you mean, maybe reputation don´t cover all the relations we have with other NPC´s perhaps humanism and the lack of it is more close to describe that kind of situations .
 
Lots of new contributing faces, so I thought I'd dredge this up from the depths.
Good call. I hadn't even read it.

There's good stuff in here. A complex and varied REP system is essential to realism. It needs to operate on a personal, group and city wide level. It also needs to incorporate the types of reputation we build for ourselves. How 'Badass' are we? How trustworthy and truthful are? How reliable are we? Are we a good samaritan or are we a cold hearted killer?

There is a hefty amount of detail that is essential to understanding who someone is with regards to their reputation.
 
Rep in the original game was more conceptual than anything else... it had a space on the character sheet, but no real rules for determining rep or how to use it...

IU tried to fix this...
 
There were rules, they applied during initial meetings and Facedowns. As I'm sure you know. Facedowns, wish we'd done more of those. Very Samurai/Gunfighter-esque.
 
There were rules, they applied during initial meetings and Facedowns. As I'm sure you know. Facedowns, wish we'd done more of those. Very Samurai/Gunfighter-esque.

There were rules for those situations, but no real rules for determining what you rep score actually was or how to raise or lower it...
 
Yeah, those were pretty vague. You could use the table when whatever IT was happened, ( Blew up a cop car - local. Blew up a police station - more than local) but it was mostly GM call. And the last few levels were even more amorphous - at what point do your exploits always make the screamsheets?

Although I guess after you blow up a police station, yeah, that would be the level...
 
A complex and varied REP system is essential to realism. It needs to operate on a personal, group and city wide level. It also needs to incorporate the types of reputation we build for ourselves. How 'Badass' are we? How trustworthy and truthful are? How reliable are we? Are we a good samaritan or are we a cold hearted killer?
Interesting! Previously, I'd only though of rep as it applies to how various factions perceive you. I hadn't even considered rep having several metrics. Nice. =)
 
Interesting! Previously, I'd only though of rep as it applies to how various factions perceive you. I hadn't even considered rep having several metrics. Nice. =)
Yeah, I based it on a saying we used to use working the doors:

"I would trust him with my life, but I wouldn't trust him with my wallet..."
 
Interesting! Previously, I'd only though of rep as it applies to how various factions perceive you. I hadn't even considered rep having several metrics. Nice. =)

With IU Rep was divided into two scores, one for personal, one for professional. Each with a scale of between -10 -+10, with everyone starting at the baseline of zero.... anonymity.
 
I had a thought while perusing in the safehouses thread.

Anyone here played any of the Need for Speed games? You can attract attention from police and eventually you will trigger a chase when your heat is too high. And the longer a chase goes on, the more heat you get. The way to get this to drop is to 'lay low' and do stuff in other area's, off the radar. Changing your car, (either paint, parts or even swapping to a different car,) is the best way to do this.

What if CDPR can implement a similar rep system? Positive and negative reps with individuals and organisations should be affected by how 'public' the character is, as well as how much 'face time' they have with said entities.

Got a bad rep with a spacific gang? Change your look, you will be less easy to recognise. Perhaps take a break and work a different area, giving said gang a chance to forget about you. Best stay out of the media limelight too, you don't want to keep updating your new enemy, especially as they are supposed to be forgetting you exist.

On the flip side, how about if you want to big yourself up to a specific entity? Get yopur name on the lists of as many movers and shakers as possible, get some media time and get in your 'targets' face, in a good way.
 
I had a thought while perusing in the safehouses thread.

Anyone here played any of the Need for Speed games? You can attract attention from police and eventually you will trigger a chase when your heat is too high. And the longer a chase goes on, the more heat you get. The way to get this to drop is to 'lay low' and do stuff in other area's, off the radar. Changing your car, (either paint, parts or even swapping to a different car,) is the best way to do this.

What if CDPR can implement a similar rep system? Positive and negative reps with individuals and organisations should be affected by how 'public' the character is, as well as how much 'face time' they have with said entities.

Got a bad rep with a spacific gang? Change your look, you will be less easy to recognise. Perhaps take a break and work a different area, giving said gang a chance to forget about you. Best stay out of the media limelight too, you don't want to keep updating your new enemy, especially as they are supposed to be forgetting you exist.

On the flip side, how about if you want to big yourself up to a specific entity? Get yopur name on the lists of as many movers and shakers as possible, get some media time and get in your 'targets' face, in a good way.
I've played one of the first ones and I'm pretty sure it didn't have any of the features you just described, just some races :)

I like the idea. Especially having face time in media, or hearing about your deeds.
Change the look thing sounds great, but I don't really wanna said gang to forget you after a day.
 
I've played one of the first ones and I'm pretty sure it didn't have any of the features you just described, just some races :)

I like the idea. Especially having face time in media, or hearing about your deeds.
Change the look thing sounds great, but I don't really wanna said gang to forget you after a day.

Most Wanted and Carbon had the mechanic. (I haven't played any since then and I only got into the series with Underground 2.)

Of course a mere day would be a stupidly short amount of time to be forgotten in. Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of a week or two to drop off someones radar.

Alternative identities would be a big help here, with completely unlinked accomodation, back accounts and wardrobes. I would love to be able to assume a completely different persona when the need arises. (This could be especially useful for corps, fixers and rockers.)


PS: I said this in a previous thread, but I am going to reiterate it here:

NO PSYCHIC NPC'S!!!

One of the most annoying things in the Elderscrolls games was that guards mystically knew everything you did. I have no problem with the idea of communication and information networking, but there should be a realistic recognition system tied to rep.
 
NO PSYCHIC NPC'S!!!

One of the most annoying things in the Elderscrolls games was that guards mystically knew everything you did. I have no problem with the idea of communication and information networking, but there should be a realistic recognition system tied to rep.
Totally agree! Though it is the future so you'd expect professionals to share information really fast (cops, mercs, corps). But not maybe as fast between people with no acceess to "high" tech (gangs, nomads).
Then again if the information sharing is anything like in many today's bussiness where right hand don't know what left hand is doing. Information sharing is lacking because... human factor :)

Also those damn guards in Skyrim also somehow know what skills I'm good at. Damn psychics!
 
NO PSYCHIC NPC'S!!!

One of the most annoying things in the Elderscrolls games was that guards mystically knew everything you did. I have no problem with the idea of communication and information networking, but there should be a realistic recognition system tied to rep.

thats right
 
I disliked the Fallout New Vegas reputation system -- because it was also inherently linked to the factions themselves. For example: Killing "Powder Gangers" made you inherently a "good guy", just as killing the "NCR" was seen as doing "evil deeds" and would tip your Personal Standing ( good vs evil ) while also changing faction relation ( vilified vs praised ). It didn't matter if you killed 1 Powder Ganger or 1,000,000 -- you were considered good for doing so.

It made certain character play styles hard to do -- you couldn't be a mass murdering sociopath for the NCR, and you couldn't be an "Honorable Legion Member" without having to seriously focus on certain bad/good actions to tip your personal karma back to what you wanted it to be.

Oh, and if there is no-one to see you do something, (or at least no witnesses left alive,) then 'it didn't happen'...

There probably aren't any game mechanics, of any game, that account for this -- but if no one saw you do anything, and 'it didn't happen', then does your reputation remain completely the same across all factions or would it be variable?

Example ----


Agent A: Enters [X Faction] lab, steals all research data but doesn't delete any files, leaves undetected to deliver the files to [Y Faction].
[Y Faction]: +Professional ( Stealth ), +Reputation (Job Completion)
[X Faction]: No net gain or net loss - they don't know who did it.
[Z Faction]: Through [Y Faction], they learn about the PC who can complete jobs in a stealthy manner -- request for PC to do jobs.

After-Job Reward: Research Data.
- Sell on Black Market
- Give to a faction for +Rep
- Blackmail X-Faction
- Etc



Agent B: Enters into [X Faction] lab, kills all the researchers, takes the data, leaves with a bang. Delivers files to [Y Faction].
[Y Faction]: +Reckless ( Guns Blazing ), +Reputation (Job Completion)
[X Faction]: -Reputation. They know you shot up everyone and took their stuff.
[Z Faction]: Not interested in a guns-glazing PC.
[A Faction]: See the genocide on TV or through another source ( or Y Faction ) --- hire the PC For a 'guns blazing' job.

After-Job Reward: Research Data.
- Sell on Black Market
- Give to a faction for +Rep
- Blackmail X-Faction
- Etc


That's very basic and cookie-cutter, but I like that route -- such as Alpha Protocol. Siding with SIE -- Guns blazing approach. Siding with Albatross -- Stealth route, only with far more factions, options, and different factors that go into it, such as "Did the PC kill everyone? Did the PC let [Important NPC] live? Did PC talk to [Important PC], and [Dialogue choices that effect individual reputation].

An example: Batman, when he started out, scared a few of the street thugs and the like. And no one believed that "a guy in a bad suit" dropped six guys armed with guns. But those six guys were scared out of their minds. A year later, every criminal knew who Batman was, while Gordon had a completely different view of him -- he had a factional reputation, but he also had an individual reputation.

If an Individual is high enough in the factional totem pole, it could cause a ripple effect to lower-ranking faction members.

That's the kind of complexity I'd like to see in a game. Where a single job can have a dozen different reputation changes (individual, professional, AND 'Karmic' -- but all separate) across a dozen different factions and individuals. Not that every job WILL, but that a job CAN cause that kind of change.

I'd also like a mechanic for a person to 'create' or 'spread' their own reputation. PC is a badass gunslinger? Goes and makes a show of it at a shooting contest.

PC is a super-stealth-master that can hide in the shadow of a telephone pole? Leave a 'Hey. I was here.' card under peoples pillows ( high ranking people with guards, so that it's believable).

Or just old fashioned, "I'M THE BEST. CHALLENGERS WANTED." type of word-of-mouth.

But with all those variables and mathematics involved in it would be like trying to recreate a social-simulation game -- on top of the actual gameplay and everything else going on.
 
Actually in skyrim if you killed all witnesses you got away scot free
In one of the towns (Marketh?) the one that is built in the mountain the story required me to get thrown into prison (mine). Well I wasn't willing and it ended up me outside city walls fighting guards then dragon joined in. Propably the most fun I had with the game but had to reload and go to prison willingly since guards just kept spawning endlessly :(
So I couldn't kill all those witnesses :p
 
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