Rep, street cred, and making a name for yourself.

[blank_redge]

Rep, street cred, and making a name for yourself.

Off the top of my head, I don't recall whether or not there's any kind of reputation system in the PnP game, though I'm sure Wisdom or Sardukhar could remind me easily. =p

In a couple of other threads ,we've theorized how certain stylistic choices could affect how various NPC factions react to you, but I don't think we've really had a proper discussion on reputation yet, though it's come up here and there a few times.

I'd like to see some kind of mechanic introduced that tracks your Reputation, and adjusts NPC interaction with you accordingly. I'd be fine with this being a hidden value, rather than there being a "Rep meter" or anything like that.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yes, there very much is! AS I'VE MENTIONED FREQUENTLY. Although to be fair, I mention frequently, period. So, yeah. You may have missed it amidst my blather.

Page 54 MRB.

Every PC has a Rep score and it can be both a positive and negative thing. It is added to 1D10 and your Cool stat while making a facedown check.Facedown checks are great - all the bonus of winning and none of the ammo expenditure. It's why Batman dresses as a giant Bat. Beat them with fear and spare your knuckles.

Rep is also a simple D10 roll - if they roll lower than your Rep, they know about you. GM's may track Rep with different events and factions, but generally, your Rep is across the board and represents whatever you are most famous for.

If they have a grudge against the person or persons who did whatever your Rep is for, or even against you and they don't know you personally yet, when they make that Rep roll, they know you. And may be unhappy.

I hope the Rep score is quite obvious on your character sheet.

 

[dreambled]

Saints Row comes to mind with their respect meter. I can see CP2077 going the same route, though I can also see it having much more of an effect during missions, not just racking up points at the end of a mission that will let you be known as Chicken Punter.

 

[darcler]

Rep-checking is one thing, but is hardly the whole mechanics. I haven't played CP, sadly, but if it's anything like most other pnp RPGs, then giving/taking PC's rep is up to GM, and what GM considers worthy of such thing. I would like to know how exactly would your rep be shaped in CP2077. How it could be earned, and how it could be lost.

Before that, however, I'd like to clarify what exactly reputation is in CP. I hope it's something more than a measure of being liked or disliked, which is in fact not about reputation at all, but an attitude. Could any CP guru shed a ray of light on the matter?

 

[wisdom000]

Rep-checking is one thing, but is hardly the whole mechanics. I haven't played CP, sadly, but if it's anything like most other pnp RPGs, then giving/taking PC's rep is up to GM, and what GM considers worthy of such thing. I would like to know how exactly would your rep be shaped in CP2077. How it could be earned, and how it could be lost.

Before that, however, I'd like to clarify what exactly reputation is in CP. I hope it's something more than a measure of being liked or disliked, which is in fact not about reputation at all, but an attitude. Could any CP guru shed a ray of light on the matter?

In Cyberpunk 2020, Reputation was just a measure of your fame/infamy...

With Interlock Unlimited we give the option to expand it a bit, measuring how known you are in your profession, and how well known you are outside of your profession.

For instance, for a Solo, its very important to be known withing the pro community, but it is very detrimental to be known outside of it. For a rocker, a media or a corp, having a high rep in both areas is very important. Bill Gates and Donald Trump are known worldwide, not just for their corporate skills, but also because they are personalities. Same with Stephen Hawking... proving even techies can be rock stars.

Oh, and the scale slides to 10 on the positive side, meaning you are known internationally as being one of the top in your field. But it also slides to -10, meaning everyone knows you, but knows you for a fuck up and a scumbag...


You can option it out a bit further, applying a pro rep rating to each of your special abilities. For Instance someone like Bruce Lee, who was respected as an actor (artiste), as a spiritual leader (Instigator), and as a martial artist (solo), all with varying degrees of respect.

 

[darcler]

So it's basically a measure of how famous you are as a professional. Would be fun if you could be known for something as well, like a solo known for his tendency for blowing things up, or a solo known for his stealthy assassination skills. Would add a layer of immersion, plus could create gameplay opportunities (blow-it-all-up kind of guy would rather less likely get assassination job, but he'd be most sought-after by people wanting fireworks; it'd be like further specialization).

How could reputation be earned, though? Doing certain jobs in a certain manner is quite obvious, but what else?

 

[dragonbird]

I don't see why a modern video game can't have a pretty complex rep system, with multiple stats and therefore a different overall "rep" stat depending on who you're interacting with. And with differences depending on whether you conceal your activities or swagger down the street with a neon "I'm a Badass" sign over your head.

So I think I'd agree with Wisdom on this (even though I know he hates it when people agree with him).

 

[wisdom000]

I don't see why a modern video game can't have a pretty complex rep system, with multiple stats and therefore a different overall "rep" stat depending on who you're interacting with. And with differences depending on whether you conceal your activities or swagger down the street with a neon "I'm a Badass" sign over your head.

So I think I'd agree with Wisdom on this (even though I know he hates it when people agree with him).

Someone thinks something I said has merit.... WHAARRRBLLGARRRBLE!!!!!!!!

 

[Sydanyo]

My perfect reputation system would not be just one with factions, but one that would take individuals into account, and then there'd be a bit of code they'd use to decide whether they'll go against what their faction thinks of you, if you've somehow personally wronged them.

It's so hilarious when you're "exalted" with some faction, and suddenly nothing you do makes no difference to anyone. Beat them up, they'll still love you. Awesomesauce.

 

[Sardukhar]

This really isn't that hard - playing STALKER again, it's easy to get on the bad side of a friendly, even loyal faction: just shoot a few of them. Regaining trust harder.

 

[Sydanyo]

This really isn't that hard - playing STALKER again, it's easy to get on the bad side of a friendly, even loyal faction: just shoot a few of them. Regaining trust harder.

Going back to what I said earlier, the whole faction reputation shouldn't necessarily drop just because you put a bullet in the head of one of their members. It might have been justified, after all.

Should be a reputation system where there are factions, but also one that it's individual-based. Don't you think?

 

[Sardukhar]

No. Because I hate you. On a personal and professional level.

It''s an interesting idea - I wonder if you could have NPCs coded to different levels of reaction to you. For example, if an NPC goes to hostile(red) and it's unjustified, (he drunkenly challenged you and then pulled his AMT 2000), then you have to wound or kill him, that would change your status with his friends to semi-hostile (orange) and your previous friendly rep with the rest of his faction to neutral-friendly (yellow-green).

 

[Sydanyo]

No. Because I hate you. On a personal and professional level.

We don't share that profession, do we?

I wonder if you could have NPCs coded to different levels of reaction to you

Well, certainly you can do it. The more complex the system, though, the more processing power it takes. There's a line somewhere that the developers can't cross.

 

[darcler]

It's not as much about processing power as it is about creating a mathematical model to describe more complex reality (more factors to consider, more relationships between them), plus the need to implement various states and reactions NPCs can have towards PC.

First we must decide what kinds of behavior can factions have towards PC. Only then we'll know what data the game's engine has to collect and process in order to determine which kind of behavior to apply to faction.

You're now talking about attitudes rather than reputation. A faction can hate me, but still need me, because I'm the best friggin' job-doer in the whole Night City. Attitude (hate) confronted with rep (they know my worth). Each can have different weight, depending on the situation the faction (or its boss) is in. Perfect working relationship is when both faction's attitude towards me is friendly and my rep in a skill they need is high. Depending on my actions, their attitude towards me can diminish, but if their need for my skill is high enough, the tipping point for outward enmity would be high enough for them to not take any hostile actions.

So in this simple model we have three factors:
- faction's attitude towards PC,
- faction's demand for PC (why would they want to deal with me? why would they need me for? how much do they need me?),
- PC's reputation.

Each of the factors can then have certain weights in the equation, the middle one's (demand) being seemingly crucial as a situational variable which can determine the tipoff point.

Now, if we add more and more variables, like individual NPCs attitude, then extend it to the NPCs social network (or subnetwork), then add some other cool ideas, the model's complexity will obviously grow - and it won't be a linear growth, too. Add all required dialogues, conditions and other gameplay mechanics that need to represent faction's behavior, and it'll get really thick.

Not that I'm saying the devs shouldn't do just that - I'm all in for that, for me it would be a major immersion builder.

 

[d1am0ndback]

I like the reputation system in Fallout New Vegas, except for the part where you wear faction armor like NCRF powder ganger or Great Khans, but the factions don't recognize you. So they can't see that you are loyal to there group, because of the disguise thing.

Wearing faction armor disguises you, to better infiltrate of course. I'd like to see something like this but fixed. If I'm wearing faction armor, I want to be recognized as a leader or part of the gang.

Or what about fame? People will recognize you even if you try to disguise yourself, then wearing a mask should mask your identity. Fame as in, you don't really do your jobs with the utmost discretion or your wanted level or how obscenely popular you are as a rockerboy.

 

[braindancer12]

I like the reputation system in Fallout New Vegas, except for the part where you wear faction armor like NCRF powder ganger or Great Khans, but the factions don't recognize you. So they can't see that you are loyal to there group, because of the disguise thing.

Wearing faction armor disguises you, to better infiltrate of course. I'd like to see something like this but fixed. If I'm wearing faction armor, I want to be recognized as a leader or part of the gang.

Or what about fame? People will recognize you even if you try to disguise yourself, then wearing a mask should mask your identity. Fame as in, you don't really do your jobs with the utmost discretion or your wanted level or how obscenely popular you are as a rockerboy.

you are totally right i agree with everything

 

[wisdom000]

I like the reputation system in Fallout New Vegas, except for the part where you wear faction armor like NCRF powder ganger or Great Khans, but the factions don't recognize you. So they can't see that you are loyal to there group, because of the disguise thing.

Wearing faction armor disguises you, to better infiltrate of course. I'd like to see something like this but fixed. If I'm wearing faction armor, I want to be recognized as a leader or part of the gang.

Or what about fame? People will recognize you even if you try to disguise yourself, then wearing a mask should mask your identity. Fame as in, you don't really do your jobs with the utmost discretion or your wanted level or how obscenely popular you are as a rockerboy.

Why would they recognize you, especially if you are wearing armor of the enemy?

That part to me always made sense... it made more sense than strangers liking you, even though they have no idea who you actually are...

Until your character, or someone who does recognize you, tells someone who you are, your rep or faction or whatever, should be neutral, or should be whatever the group sees outsiders as...

 

[blank_redge]

I like the reputation system in Fallout New Vegas, except for the part where you wear faction armor like NCRF powder ganger or Great Khans, but the factions don't recognize you.

Why would they recognize you, especially if you are wearing armor of the enemy?

This. If you want to put it in Sons of Anarchy / motorcycle culture terms, it's like wearing the club's colors, but being from a different chapter, so it'd make sense that none of the locals recognize you.

 

[datakrash]

There are some things that may help and depends of where you are or what are you trying to do; Let´s say you are trying to infiltrate into a cee-metal enclave you just can`t do that 1st you are not fully borged and 2nd you don´t have giri with them even if you are a fully borged you don´t have a dogtag and a bio profile that match that dogtag in their databank that will make the attempt of infiltrate suicidal, on the other hand you can find some work for them and build some giri to grant a dogtag and bio profile and allow you cross the checkpoints and enter the enclave where you can find lines of works that suits your preference and information and the fun part is that you don´t even need to be augmented to do that. There are more ways of get giri maybe helping a altcult member in some way, bringing them some juicy and fresh tech well the kind of tricks a fixer have up in his sleeves.

There is also the DataPool reference where medias and rockers edgerunners fight to bring the coolest stuff you never saw and for the points of fame that can turn an kidnapping attempt or armed robbery into a autograph meeting.

Mix all this with the rep system we all are used to know and we can start flipping.

 

[darcler]

All things considered, factions are the most generic thing I can think of when it comes to reputation. Not saying there shouldn't be faction mechanics in CP2077, don't get me wrong - I want it, and I want it as complex as the devs can possibly make it. But what I'd like even more is to create something different, a reputation mechanics that doesn't only come down to determining how much each given faction likes you. Most NPCs you'll meet in the game will not be affiliated with any faction in the first place, after all.

I'd also like if you could earn rep without having to complete quests (jobs, whatever); reputation should not be a reward, but a derivative of your activities. Most games implement the fact in only one way: if you attack someone, your relations with a given faction gets damaged, or if the attacked person is but a poor unaffiliated NPC, some kind of law enforcement will voice their opinion on the deed. Obviously, that's the easiest way to implement it, but it's one side of the coin, ergo the whole thing is lame.

It'd be nice, for instance, to help a random NPC that's getting mugged on the street, or get yourself mugged (and suffer ridicule), or even earn your Badass title when you win a though battle (with 'toughness' determined by things like disparity of power between you and your assailants, hardware used, damage taken, damage dealt, time it took to resolve the situation, how it was resolved (killing you foes, stunning them...), etc.). In Skyrim it doesn't matter whether you kill a mammoth or a friggin' mudcrab. Is it cool? The hell it is. I'd like for the world to get to the streets, be it good or bad. Which, in turn, could open new possibilities.