Request to (re)evaluate all motorcycle's roll & lean angles

[CS554]

FYI: PS DualShock got analogue triggers during PS1 era, only first models didn't ship with those but digital only controls. My subjective opinion is that analogue triggers weren't as good as on Xbox until later PS generations. Take that from someone from most played game series is Gran Turismo, 'till GT5 on PS3 which was sort of writing on the wall thing, nothing to do with DualShock but business practices.

There is also possibility that bike driving / physics isn't entirely similar on all platforms. I mean Xbox and PC had different driving characteristics for cars for many months.

Still, this has been a great read and something that really contributes to better user experience.

 

[UraKire]

And it would be even better to see some NPCs riding one of those bikes! It would be great as an add-on to enhance the feeling of being in a "real" open world

 

[LeKill3rFou]

There is also possibility that bike driving / physics isn't entirely similar on all platforms. I mean Xbox and PC had different driving characteristics for cars for many months.

It also could be explained because I played "a lot" and only with these bikes (or almost) since day one. I quite sure, back in December, it was not so great, when I didn't know the city nor the roads. And maybe without paying attention, I release a little bit the trigger (just when it's needed) for avoid loosing control, to drift the rear wheel,...

 

[CS554]

It also could be explained because I played "a lot" and only with these bikes (or almost) since day one. I quite sure, back in December, it was not so great, when I didn't know the city nor the roads. And maybe without paying attention, I release a little bit the trigger (just when it's needed) for avoid loosing control, to drift the rear wheel,...

Muscle memory is tough to explain. I still wonder if tip I posted many months ago about using handbrake and throttle simultaneously can be helpful and fun when corning with certain cars, but don't know if how I put it to words made much sense after all...

But guys, it's quite quiet on forums so maybe there's a good chance that this would really get some developers attention, so how about force feedback?

For cars I wish feedback effects for little things like small vibration via controller left motor when braking before locking point. This would also help to simulate ABS effects compared to real cars. So how about bikes? What kind of effects would help players experimenting with bikes developing muscle memory and making drive experience and finding limits more intuitive?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

For cars I wish feedback effects for little things like small vibration via controller left motor when braking before locking point. This would also help to simulate ABS effects compared to real cars.

That's a good idea, because brakes are quite diffucult to "ajust". Too much you don't turn (block wheels), not enough you're too fast for turning. Maybe also the same with throttle, a little vibration just before the "drift" of rear wheels

 

[Bartinga2077]

It's a shame, a video would be infinitely better than my attempts at explanations

Don't worry, Your explanations are perfectly understandable.

I understand that you find that the motorcycles do roll angle, especially in first person, which is true. However, I would like for CDPR to evaluate the roll angles so, that the bikes roll angle even better. Especially at slower speeds when they even keep standing upright during the more sharper turns, as is highly noticeable in the videos.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Don't worry, Your explanations are perfectly understandable.

I understand that you find that the motorcycles do roll angle, especially in first person, which is true. However, I would like for CDPR to evaluate the roll angles so, that the bikes roll angle even better. Especially at slower speeds when they even keep standing upright during the more sharper turns, as is highly noticeable in the videos.

Yep, it need improvments for sure
But I wonder if good bike "simulations" are more difficult to do than cars. Because there is few game where bikes are really great. Don't remember in GTA, but if I don't remember, I suppose it was probably not very good.
Like in the video that I posted, it's Ride 4. But it's not comparable to a "story-driven open world" game (like Forza or Gran Turismo for cars).

 

[Bartinga2077]

And it would be even better to see some NPCs riding one of those bikes! It would be great as an add-on to enhance the feeling of being in a "real" open world

If I were to guess, I'd say that they most probably would make turns in a straight upright position. Saw that in other games like SimCity. Seems very difficult programming a motorcycle's roll angle angling for NPCs in a traffic situation. Maybe that was one of the reasons it was decided to leave them out, like anything else on 2 wheels.

 

[Bartinga2077]

Yep, it could be good to take few things from a good simulation. But not "too much" because I can see comments come to "driving is bad... I end on the ground in each turn or almost...)

Sorry, choom but, riding a horrendously highly tuned Yaiba in 1st person in Cyberpunk is cyberpsychic.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

 

[Bartinga2077]

Wow! Hats off to that guy.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Wow! Hats off to that guy.

I like to see how the bike "dance" with road's imperfections while it's a very (very) stable bike (almost a SuperBike on the road. The best that Ducati can release for now). It's impressive
And yes, but he "play" his life here... A little mistake and it's the end

 

[CS554]

Sorry, choom but, riding a horrendously highly tuned Yaiba in 1st person in Cyberpunk is cyberpsychic.

That's just... beautiful.

Thanks for @LeKill3rFou for IRL comparison videos too.

 

[Bartinga2077]

I like to see how the bike "dance" with road's imperfections while it's a very (very) stable bike (almost a SuperBike on the road. The best that Ducati can release for now). It's impressive
And yes, but he "play" his life here... A little mistake and it's the end

Pretty sure they inspected the entire course thoroughly for any debris, obstacles and or imperfections. One piece of wood, he's history. That's one hell of a gonk corpo government that allows such an event in their country.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Pretty sure they inspected the entire course thoroughly for any debris, obstacles and or imperfections. One piece of wood, he's history. That's one hell of a gonk corpo government that allows such an event in their country.

It's the TT (Isle of Man - Tourist Trophy - since 1907) on a "open" road who is used by everyone all year long (and not specifically repaired for this event).
But it don't need "much" imperfections, you lost control at 150mph+ and you end in a house, a wall or a tree... You have to be a little bit "crazy" to race here, there are deaths almost every years

 

[Bartinga2077]

It's the TT (Isle of Man - Tourist Trophy - since 1907) on a "open" road who is used by everyone all year long (and not specifically repaired for this event).
You have to be a little bit "crazy" to race here, there are deaths almost every years

I can imagine. Your vids showed absolutely not a spek of room to play with. TV in my country stopped broadcasting this ever since the 90ties. Actually, never saw mention of it anywhere online. Probably because governments find the danger of copying and dying too great. So thanks for showing. Will be watching this event from now on.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

With a little imagination, all the pilots who take part in the TT are a little bit like "V", it's very risky, it has a good chance of ending badly, but those who manage to win become legends

 

[CS554]

I can imagine. Your vids showed absolutely not a spek of room to play with. TV in my country stopped broadcasting this ever since the 90ties. Actually, never saw mention of it anywhere online. Probably because governments find the danger of copying and dying too great. So thanks for showing. Will be watching this event from now on.

Wrote earlier about always being a car guy, but even I know Isle of Man TT and it's reputation as bloodbath.

But I want to get back to your video. It was great that you had that text commentary there as it's not easy to convey and stress certain things, say video capture of car racing game, they tend to open up to people who already are familiar with the game / racing games because it's easy to get there what is happening, control movements and that and things that contribute to experience like your comment acceleration on bump on the road, that's very important information as from cars, you think it's about what kind bump? What kind of drivetrain my car has? effect of weight transfer is entirely different compared to cars and your video explains that very well.

I'm on Xbox One X so no mods for me but regardless, CDRP can get good feel from your video what kind of experience they game can provide, even though via mods and possible quirks they may have in their vehicle physics, other modders can get an idea how damn hypnotic certain experiences can be. Damn you, now even I want additional race story in game to go with The Beast, but this time on bikes.

Something I thought, if you could make additional commentary or video is about learning curve on that mod vs. base game and highlight work / risk / reward. There's certain fallacy, make something look good, like NFS: Heat and drift button mechanics, which was frankly really lame and in Horizon 4 people, me included were pulling that kind of stuff without that and I think most ridiculous thing was that it was easier to pull something like 360 while driving in Horizon because you weren't tied to button, which actually decided how you play the game. Learning curve and beating that was that made that fun and in the end you everybody could take all the similar screencaps from impressive drifts as in NFS: Heat.

 

[backtron]

IMHO most games make the mistake of limiting motorcycle turn and lean angle. Makes the bikes feel on rails and prohibit trying out things you wouldn't in life. In reality you could tilt the handlebars all the way to side, pop the clutch and do doughnuts. Or push the corner until your peg scrapes, front traction gives out, or even take the turn drifting.

Most games prohibit this, by limiting your turn, lean angles, brake and throttle actions to traction controlled values, making the bikes dull and boring.

 

[CS554]

IMHO most games make the mistake of limiting motorcycle turn and lean angle. Makes the bikes feel on rails and prohibit trying out things you wouldn't in life. In reality you could tilt the handlebars all the way to side, pop the clutch and do doughnuts. Or push the corner until your peg scrapes, front traction gives out, or even take the turn drifting.

Most games prohibit this, by limiting your turn, lean angles, brake and throttle actions to traction controlled values, making the bikes dull and boring.

What's your take how these things work in CP 2077? What it gets right and what could be improved?