Restarting on Hard Mode, lots of questions.

[Foxhound3857]

Restarting on Hard Mode, lots of questions.

SORRY, HARD MODE. I'm restarting on Hard mode.

So I actually completely blew my Nekker/Endrega quests by destroying the queens and nests before even picking up the contracts, and since they don't respawn...yeah, screwed out of some good exp for that. So I'm restarting the game on Hard Mode, I feel like I can handle the combat with patience, care, and preparation, and it might prepare me for Insane Mode.

So I have a laundry list of questions to help fine-tune my character and get a better understanding of mechanics.

1. Is the Dagger Throwing skill worth picking up? It seems like a pretty lame choice between the only three talents available to you for your first talent point (+10 Vitality or +10% Vigor regen out of combat, both of them suck), but Dagger Throwing seems to be questionable too. I was doing just fine with bombs (Samum, Dancing Star and Grapeshot) and I couldn't even find a diagram for silver daggers in Flotsam (can you even GET one in Chapter 1?). It seems like it's a waste of a talent and a waste of inventory space and orens when bombs seem to do the job just fine, and I could lighten my inventory and fatten my wallet by either selling daggers or the materials to make them, timber and iron ore. Are daggers going to be more useful later in the game, are they worth considering in Dark/Insane mode?

2. What is the level cap for each chapter? At what point do the monsters in that chapter stop giving experience? Since I'm playing on Hard Mode I intend to do a lot of grinding for money, mutagens, and alchemy ingredients to make bombs and potions later, and while doing this I'd like to cap my level on monsters before doing any of the quests.

3. Is Combat Acumen a good skill? I'm highly skeptical of a group finisher type of adrenaline skill considering that it's highly situational and won't work most of the time without meeting very specific conditions to flag it. Mutant's Berserk ability sounds much more appealing with its raw 30% damage increase during Adrenaline mode, and I intend to be a very heavy potion user regardless.

That being said, I still intend to do some investing in the Swordsmanship tree for the damage reducing skills, which is why I'm asking. Is a full Swordsmanship build going to be better for me, or am I better off with an Alchemy build with a heavy focus on Potions and being "poisoned" and going nuts on the Mutagens (re-speccing later to save 2 points on Impregnation)? And are Madness Mutagens still worth it now that they boost Sign damage instead of Sword damage, even though I don't intend to use Signs that much (Quen for combat, MAYBE Yrden when I need to freeze something)?

4. Is upgrading Quen worth my talent points? All I really need it to do is be able to absorb a single blow, will it still be able to do that later in the game without upgrades? If I do upgrade it and Magic Intensification to max out its duration, will it be enough to absorb MORE than a single blow later? Or am I better off leaving it at base?

The potions I intend to use most:

Swallow
Gadwall
Virga
Rook
Golden Oriole
Wolf

Possibly White Rafford's and Thunderbolt for bosses as well, but for general encounters: Swallow/Rook/Golden Oriole/Wolf

Here's an idea of the build I want to go for. It's a dual-tree build focused on Alchemy primarily, and Swordsmanship secondarily, for Dark and later for Insane.

Training
---
Dagger Throwing 1
Parrying 2
Fortitude 2
Arrow Redirection 1

Swordsmanship
---
Position 2
Feet Work 1
Riposte 1
Violence 1
Whirl 1
Hardy 1
Tough Guy 2 (my last 2 points will go here after re-spec)
Finesse 1
Invincible 2

Alchemy
---
Synthesis 1
Specialization: Potions 2
Harvester 1
Catalysis 2
Specialization: Oils 1
Taster 2
Impregnation 2 (re-spec later to take out of this skill)
Metathesis 2
Condensation 1
Berserker 1
Mutant 1
Amplification 2

Focuses on the potions and getting the damage and defense bonuses while "intoxicated" and Berserk mode, while the Swordsmanship talents focus mostly on survival and damage reduction, with Whirl and Finesse thrown in for utility in combat. Grants me 7 Mutagen slots, which I will commit before re-speccing and dumping Impregnation for Tough Guy.

Thoughts on this skill build? Any answers to my questions or advice? Thank you in advance.

Edit: Oh, and regarding the Indecent Proposal quest, do you have to do that one the same day you get it, or can I spend a few game days farming and getting my Dark Set and capping my level off monsters before I do this quest?

 

[dragonbird]

I changed the thread title for you

SORRY, HARD MODE. I'm restarting on Hard mode.

So I actually completely blew my Nekker/Endrega quests by destroying the queens and nests before even picking up the contracts, and since they don't respawn...yeah, screwed out of some good exp for that. So I'm restarting the game on Hard Mode, I feel like I can handle the combat with patience, care, and preparation, and it might prepare me for Insane Mode.

So I have a laundry list of questions to help fine-tune my character and get a better understanding of mechanics.

1. Is the Dagger Throwing skill worth picking up? It seems like a pretty lame choice between the only three talents available to you for your first talent point (+10 Vitality or +10% Vigor regen out of combat, both of them suck), but Dagger Throwing seems to be questionable too. I was doing just fine with bombs (Samum, Dancing Star and Grapeshot) and I couldn't even find a diagram for silver daggers in Flotsam (can you even GET one in Chapter 1?). It seems like it's a waste of a talent and a waste of inventory space and orens when bombs seem to do the job just fine, and I could lighten my inventory and fatten my wallet by either selling daggers or the materials to make them, timber and iron ore. Are daggers going to be more useful later in the game, are they worth considering in Dark/Insane mode?

I've never once used dagger throwing, except to complete the Hung Over quest. Some people use daggers a lot, so this is purely down to personal choice. One thing that is worth considering though, especially if you're going for an Alchemy build, is that it opens up a mutagen slot.

2. What is the level cap for each chapter? At what point do the monsters in that chapter stop giving experience? Since I'm playing on Hard Mode I intend to do a lot of grinding for money, mutagens, and alchemy ingredients to make bombs and potions later, and while doing this I'd like to cap my level on monsters before doing any of the quests.

On the assumption that this means you're going for side-quests and grinding before completing main quests, target to go into the "End Game" sequence (i.e. the point where you concentrate almost entirely on main quests) at around Level 8 for Chapter 1 and Level 19 for Chapter 2. This is overkill though, as I came up with those numbers before they added the extra quests into Chapter 3 with the EE version, so if you get bored grinding before then, stop earlier. It is possible to reach the highest levels before the end of the game without grinding, so the main benefit you'll see is that it makes you over-levelled in the short term (i.e for the end-game sequences in each chapter). And keep an eye on the XP you're getting. Personal view: once it drops below around 8 per monster, stop grinding.

3. Is Combat Acumen a good skill? I'm highly skeptical of a group finisher type of adrenaline skill considering that it's highly situational and won't work most of the time without meeting very specific conditions to flag it. Mutant's Berserk ability sounds much more appealing with its raw 30% damage increase during Adrenaline mode, and I intend to be a very heavy potion user regardless.

OK, I'm not going to answer many questions on an Alchemy Build because I didn't use it much. Your point about the swordsman build and finishers is valid.

That being said, I still intend to do some investing in the Swordsmanship tree for the damage reducing skills, which is why I'm asking. Is a full Swordsmanship build going to be better for me, or am I better off with an Alchemy build with a heavy focus on Potions and being "poisoned" and going nuts on the Mutagens (re-speccing later to save 2 points on Impregnation)? And are Madness Mutagens still worth it now that they boost Sign damage instead of Sword damage, even though I don't intend to use Signs that much (Quen for combat, MAYBE Yrden when I need to freeze something)?

It depends on your own preferences. A pure swordsman build with, at most, a couple of points in Magic, is the easiest build. With that build, there's no reason to invest in Alchemy. An Alchemy Build is weak at the start of the game, becomes kickass later. And it can be an incredibly annoying nightmare during the Act II Boss Fight if you don't have at least some points in Swordsman. Try to get Riposte (and make sure you know how to use it) and Footwork.

Madness was nerfed in EE. Consider the Critical Effectss as your go-to mutagen for Swordsman or Alchemy, with Power or Strength as your alternatives for a swordsman build.

4. Is upgrading Quen worth my talent points? All I really need it to do is be able to absorb a single blow, will it still be able to do that later in the game without upgrades? If I do upgrade it and Magic Intensification to max out its duration, will it be enough to absorb MORE than a single blow later? Or am I better off leaving it at base?

Quen upgrades are useful on swordsman if you get hit a lot, so it depends how good a fighter you are If you only want to withstand a single blow, you don't need to upgrade.

In general though, don't bother investing too much in the Magic tree if you're playing Swordsman or Alchemy. With Swordsman in particular, you won't have a lot of vigor available for sign-casting, so it'll go to waste. You'll tend to use either Quen or Aard, but not both.

I haven't played Alchemy enough to comment on the rest.

Edit: Oh, and regarding the Indecent Proposal quest, do you have to do that one the same day you get it, or can I spend a few game days farming and getting my Dark Set and capping my level off monsters before I do this quest?

For maximum XP it's the way you think - Farm/grind, then do side quests, then do main quests. You can delay Indecent Proposal as long as you like. In general, any quest that says things like "Tonight" actually means "Any night". And, as you've also noted, don't do the Nekker and Endrega quests until you've finished farming them.

Obviously, if you "Hard Mode", you won't be getting the Dark Mode sets. You should maybe consider going for Dark Mode instead? I can change the title back

For best farming:
Act 1 - You've already worked it out Nekkers and Endregas. The latter give XP for longer and give the most valuable loot. KEEP ANY ENDREGA SALIVA YOU FIND. You'll need it for Fire Runes.
Act 2 - Depending on the options you take in Chapter 1, this will either be Rotfiends or Harpies. Harpy Feathers are very valuable.
By Act 3, you won't get any benefit from grinding, so just progress the quests.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Thanks for editing my title, appreciate it. :cheers:

I did have a Swordsman build that I posted on Gamefaqs/Steam, but it never got any responses. What do you think of it?

Training
---
Dagger Throwing 1
Parrying 2
Fortitude 2
Arrow Redirection 1

Swordsmanship
---
Position 2
Feet Work 1
Riposte 1
Violence 2
Whirl 2
Tough Guy 2
Hardy 1
Finesse 2
Precision 2
Invincible 2
Combat Acumen 2
Whirlwind 2

Magic
---
Destructive Magic 1
Advanced Quen 2
Venting 2 (with Summers Crown for Fire Quen)
Magic Intensification 2

With a low Vigor score and Vigor regeneration, this build is really only going to use Vigor for Quen and Parrying/Riposting (although I have found Yrden useful against big, tough mobs that I need to immobilize and guard break), and focuses on the Swords skills that raise damage/defense, evasion, and critical effects. I don't need Schemer, I can probably get by without Guard, especially since Quen would be such a big factor, I don't need Sudden Death because I'm not focused on instant kills, and therefore also don't need more than 1 in Riposte.

If I'm going to try this build though, I need to know how Quen actually works. If I were to take Advanced Quen and Magic Intensification, is my Quen actually going to survive more than a single hit later? Because from what I've heard, it always goes down in one hit no matter how strong or weak the attack is, regardless of your defense or damage resistance. I wanted to ask here though because on an actual Witcher forum, someone would know for sure.

Advanced Quen 2 and Magic Intensification 2 means 351 duration on Quen (117 x Sign Intensity 3). Is it going to be able to withstand multiple attacks later, or will it still go down in one hit?

 

[dragonbird]

I've never gone through a detailed analysis on how the various skills work, and the actual stats, so I'm going to stick to generalities.

1. Work on the assumption that Quen will ALWAYS fail after one hit on major battles. The upgrades extend the duration only if you don't get hit, and transfer damage back to the attacker, they don't make it stronger.
2. If you're going to be relying on Quen, put points into Vigor Regeneration during combat so that you can re-cast quickly, so go for Vigor Regeneration and Fortitude in the Training Tree. (And use Tawny Owl potions)
3. Don't waste skill points much on increased vitality if there's something better to take. It's trivial compared to what you can get from equipment. Vigor Regen is more useful than Hardiness.

On the rest, I think it's probably more important when you get skills rather than which skills. You'll be concentrating on the swordsman tree anyway, and should get most of it filled in.
- Get Position and Whirl early to reduce problems with multiple enemies.
- Get at least the first level Riposte and Footwork before going into the Act II Big Fight. In general, for that sequence you should be looking at defensive skills, in particular anything that will get you out of trouble without relying on magic. Make sure you're as good as you can be at parrying.
For Act III, you should be concentrating on offensive skills. Some of your enemies can kill you in two shots (one to destroy Quen, second to destroy you), regardless of how good your armour is, so the emphasis is on killing them first.

I just did a bare-bones playthrough, with no sidequests and no grinding. This is my end-game build (level 32) on Dark Mode. It was an easy win, but then I've played it a lot

Training:
Vigor Regen - 2
Parrying - 2
Fortitude - 2

Magic
Enhanced Aard - 1
Enhanced Quen - 2 (Only because I get hit a lot so I may as well turn it offensive. A better player doesn't need this)

Swordsman
Position - 2
Riposte - 2
Footwork - 2
Violence - 2
Whirl - 2
Schemer - 2
Tough Guy - 2
Hardy - 1
Finesse - 2
Invincible - 2
Combat Acumen - 2
Whirlwind - 1 (I'd have probably been better putting another point here)

If you're at a higher level, or didn't put points into Magic, I'd add one more into Hardy and Whirlwind. After that, I don't think it really matters.

Crits for all of the mutagens.

 

[GuyNwah]

Last time I played (I normally play Dark mode), I played a mainly Alchemy build. Alchemy Geralt gets so many big bonuses from enhanced mutagens and being high on potions it's scary. And even though the Berserk isn't as effective as the Magic build's Heliotrope, or as sure of taking down enemies as Combat Acumen, it's definitely worth playing with.

Damage reduction is not much use in Hard and Dark modes. You get hit far harder than the ability of available armors to absorb the blows. Position (defense against backstabbing) and Riposte (lethal counterattacks) are the best. Otherwise, concentrate on the Golden Rule, the version that goes "do unto others before they do you."

Dagger throwing is, as Dragonbird said, mainly interesting for the mutagen slot. You can even leave it until you need the slot.

If you want to grind (more useful on Roche's path, there's pretty much always enough quest XP to hit the level cap on Iorveth's path), do so early in Act 1, or before Rotfiends cease to offer XP in Act 2. Every other abundant monster drops to zero XP much earlier.

If you are not specializing in Magic, still consider upgrading Aard and Destructive Magic. Force Push Crowd and a bonus to all magical damage are big wins.

 

[Foxhound3857]

If it's still going to get taken down in a single hit later, even when maxed out, then it's good enough as it is without any talents devoted to it. I don't need the damage reflection property of it, hell the Summer Crown already gives it a nice boost even at Lv1.

I guess what I could do is put them into Alchemy instead.

1 Synthesis
2 Specialization: Potions
1 Harvester
2 Catalysis

Leaves 22 points for the Sword tree

2 Position
1 Feet Work (second point here could be detrimental, 1 gives me plenty of dodging distance)
1 Riposte
2 Violence
2 Whirl
2 Hardy
2 Tough Guy
2 Precision
2 Finesse
2 Invincible
2 Combat Acumen
2 Whirlwind

I wouldn't need Schemer with this because Quen is only used as a buffer to survive lethal blows, as opposed to an actual source of damage. Tawny Owl would probably be enough if Vigor regen became an issue. With all the HP and damage reduction from Invincible, Tough Guy, Hardy, and Combat Acumen, nothing should be able to one-two shot me in Chapter 3, at least not on Hard mode (hell, on anything other than Dark mode, +250Vitality and 40% damage reduction should reduce just about everything to chip damage). Unless it's the Operator.

 

[GuyNwah]

On Hard, Insane, and Dark modes you can be one-hit even with big bonuses to armor and defensive skills. I rely on being able to finish off enemies as quickly as possible.

Spoiler

Hundreds of hit points and quantitative damage reductions are pretty much worthless when the sorceresses' pet dragon can hit for more than 1000.

 

[Foxhound3857]

On Hard, Insane, and Dark modes you can be one-hit even with big bonuses to armor and defensive skills. I rely on being able to finish off enemies as quickly as possible.

Spoiler

Quantitative damage reductions are pretty much worthless when the sorceresses' pet dragon can hit for more than 1000.

Seriously? There'd have to be guys that can do well over 500 damage with a single hit to pull that off. The worst I've seen so far is an 84 damage backstab from a Nekker Warrior, and that was before I even got Hunters Armor or Position 1.

You're making me less motivated to try Insane mode though. I mean, do I REALLY want to sit through 50 hours of a game only to get one-shot so close to the end because the mob I was fighting basically said "f*** your defense."?

 

[dragonbird]

Sounds OK, if you're wanting to use potions a lot. The only one I'd consider changing is Precision. It'll give you a nice bonus against humans, especially if you're using Mourner, but it won't help against monsters.

And yes, what Guy said. And I don't know their stats, but Gargoyles are also two-hitters, and immune to the crits you'll have on Weeper.

Decide after you've played it once about Insane. It isn't that these battles are challenging, they're not, it's just that the technique does NOT involve high defence stats on your part, it involves hit-and-run. Preferably hit HARD and run, so that you only need to do it a few times.

 

[GuyNwah]

Wraiths (and gargoyles in act 3) are the most dangerous of the abundant monsters. Especially on a high-performance PC, they hit very fast.

Seriously, be prepared to deal instant death. It will keep you safe.

 

[dragonbird]

Wraiths (and gargoyles in act 3) are the most dangerous of the abundant monsters. Especially on a high-performance PC, they hit very fast.

And especially when four of them go for you at once. Abundant monsters can be... abundant.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Well, if I dropped Precision, I could either get 1 in Oil Specialization to get Taster, and be able to drink 4 potions. Potions is something I intend to heavily rely on. Alternatively, could drop 2 from Precision, 1 from Hardy, and 1 from Potion Specialization (meaning 5 in Alchemy for Catalysis 2), and put those 4 points into Aard and Destructive Magic as GuyNwah recommended.

Build would then look something like this.

Dagger Throwing 1
Parrying 2
Fortitude 2
Arrow Redirection 1

Position 2
Feet Work 1
Riposte 1
Violence 2
Whirl 2
Tough Guy 2
Hardy 1
Finesse 2
Invincible 2
Combat Acumen 2
Whirlwind 2

Synthesis 1
Potion Specialization 1
Harvester 1
Catalysis 2

Destructive Magic 2
Advanced Aard 2

But the idea I was going for was to stack armor, HP, regen, and damage reduction across the board so I could be a walking tank later and mitigate attacks down to chip damage.

 

[dragonbird]

Looking better. Incidentally, if you're going to upgrade Aard (which is good), I'd also try to use at least one Range mutagen in those slots.

And I'd still recommend making sure you have the swordsmanship side strong enough to get you through a fairly big fight, without dependency on potions or magic, by the middle of Act II. I can give you the reasons if you want, but suffice to say that threads about the fight in connection to Alchemy builds usually include a lot of four-letter words.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Looking better. Incidentally, if you're going to upgrade Aard (which is good), I'd also try to use at least one Range mutagen in those slots.

And I'd still recommend making sure you have the swordsmanship side strong enough to get you through a fairly big fight, without dependency on potions or magic, by the middle of Act II. I can give you the reasons if you want, but suffice to say that threads about the fight in connection to Alchemy builds usually include a lot of four-letter words.

I've heard something about it, but the only thing I can think of is that the fight must last a hell of a lot longer than 14-minute potions can get you through.

 

[GuyNwah]

A suggestion:
2 points into Riposte. The critical hits on Riposte are one of the best features of the game's swordplay.
Ignore Footwork. Geralt dodges fast enough without it.
2 points into Alchemist instead of Synthesis and Potion duration.Then throw bombs for double damage.

---------- Updated at 11:07 PM ----------

I've heard something about it, but the only thing I can think of is that the fight must last a hell of a lot longer than 14-minute potions can get you through.

Spoiler

There are times you must fight without any chance to use potions. Basic swordsmanship skills, especially Riposte, pay off at these times.

 

[dragonbird]

I've heard something about it, but the only thing I can think of is that the fight must last a hell of a lot longer than 14-minute potions can get you through.

Ahh, the delights of innocence. (Insert evil cackle here).
I'm going to bow to Guy's superior knowledge on Footwork. I'm not a fast mover.

(Aww, Guy, you didn't have to TELL him)

 

[Foxhound3857]

A suggestion:
2 points into Riposte. The critical hits on Riposte are one of the best features of the game's swordplay.
Ignore Footwork. Geralt dodges fast enough without it.
2 points into Alchemist instead of Synthesis and Potion duration.Then throw bombs for double damage.

I don't know. I've gotten killed a few times because the default dodge distance was so pathetic that it couldn't get me out of the way of a sword swing in time, let alone an Endrega charge. Riposte I'm open to, but if I'm gonna go for 2 Alchemist instead of Potion Specialization, it means I'll need an extra point to get Catalysis 2 (the entire point of going into Alchemy at all).

 

[RedFire01]

This is the best skill tree path in my opinion. It got me through Insane so it works. It focuses mostly on damage, because Quen should be enough defense considering how fast your going to be killing enemies.

=TRAINING=
Vigor Regeneration 2/2
Parrying 2/2
Fortitude 2/2

=SWORDSMANSHIP=
Footwork 2/2
Position 2/2
Violence 2/2
Whirl 1/2
Hardy 1/2
Sudden Death 2/2
Invincible 2/2
Combat Acumen 2/2

==MAGIC==
Destructive Magic 2/2
Enhanced Quen 2/2

==ALCHEMY==
Synthesis 1/2
Specialization: Potions 1/2
Harvester 1/2
Catalysis 2/2
Specialization: Oils 1/2
Taster 2/2
Metathesis 2/2

 

[Foxhound3857]

Okay, I've modified it a bit according to the advice given, making a few small concessions to still get what I want.

Training
---
Dagger Throwing 1
Parrying 2
Fortitude 2
Arrow Redirection 1

Swordsmanship
---
Position 2
Feet Work 1 (I really do need this, several times I've gotten killed by backstabs because the default rolling distance didn't get me out of harms way in time)
Riposte 1 (I don't need the instant kill chance, just having it is good enough)
Violence 2
Whirl 2
Hardy 2
Tough Guy 2
Finesse 2
Invincible 2
Combat Acumen 2
Whirlwind 2

Magic
---
Advanced Aard 2

Alchemy
---
Alchemist 2
Side Effect 1
Harvester 1
Catalysis 2 (opens up the option to use Virga, Gadwall, White Rafford's and Thunderbolt without big penalties, and get huge bonuses if I'm not a lazy tit about using my resources, Swallow/Gadwall/Rook being the likely combination for Wolverine-like regeneration)

I can drop Destructive Magic in exchange for 100% bomb damage, since Magic is tertiary and Aard is more for crowd control and breathing room than actual damage (and are there ANY bombs that can simulate the effects of and be a substitute for Aard?)). I didn't know what to do with the last point so it simply went to Hardy for another 75 Vitality, but Riposte would be another option for it.

The 1 Feet Work, I absolutely need though. It's like how Dragonbird said that some people need upgraded Quen because they get hit a lot and it makes for a good source of damage because of that. I need Feet Work because I get hit a lot trying to dodge (and killed) because the default rolling distance is pathetic and doesn't allow me to escape getting clipped by a backstab.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I see now that you guys weren't kidding about the Wraiths. Those things mean business, even with Hunters Armor and 3 Diamond Reinforcements, they 3-shot me on Hard at Level 9. It wasn't easy fighting them in the Melitele's Heart ritual, I pretty much needed all my Samums and Grapeshots to squeeze by.

Those things are going to be a serious threat later, but I'm glad I got a taste of what to expect at least. Sadly the quest reward wasn't what I was hoping. I was hoping it would be +1 vitality regen IN combat.

I'm tempted to go find the Abandoned Asylum and grind there though. Those Wraiths gave me a ton of experience at Level 9, something like 25 each. Next time I do this quest though, I'll be Level 12, to have Position 2 and Alchemist 2. Bombs were my food and drink for that fight.