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revert caretaker card

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karma_vega011

karma_vega011

Rookie
#1
Mar 6, 2020
Please revert the caretaker card back to what it was before, when it could bring back relics from the graveyard
the card was perfectly balanced before, but now it's trash
 
InkognitoXI

InkognitoXI

Senior user
#2
Mar 6, 2020
It was completely reliant on toxic interactions like reusing scenarios to even be worth its 14 provisions.
The change is fine.
 
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mazeebra

mazeebra

Forum regular
#3
Mar 6, 2020
Caretaker was the best change in the patch. Playing scenario twice is completely idiotic, but still possible with probably the worst scenario, Nilfgaard.
 
Fhrek1986

Fhrek1986

Rookie
#4
Mar 6, 2020
InkognitoXI said:
It was completely reliant on toxic interactions like reusing scenarios to even be worth its 14 provisions.
The change is fine.
Click to expand...

Yes, because give a Doom Tag to Scenarios is super-hard. :shrug:

Assire is the "only" Carataker now! :coolstory:
 
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InkognitoXI

InkognitoXI

Senior user
#5
Mar 6, 2020
Fhrek1986 said:
Yes, because give a Doom Tag to Scenarios is super-hard. :shrug:

Assire is the "only" Carataker now! :coolstory:
Click to expand...
If you added doomed to all Scenarios Caretaker would once again be completely unplayable, it and Avallach: Sage rely on getting absurd value out of pulling 1 artifact and in the case of Avallach: Sage the only real play it ever saw was to pull Land of a Thousand Fables to pull Royal Decree into Damian or Renew into Damian in the Wild Hunt Seasonal mode and I do not think you would assume that was because of how good pulling an artifact with a 1 for 10 is.
Caretaker's interaction with scenarios was toxic, however the only way it could even see play, given how horrible it was (the artifact had to give you at the very least 12 points, just for it to be a 14 for 14).

Assire is now a problem of her own.
 
mazeebra

mazeebra

Forum regular
#6
Mar 6, 2020
Fhrek1986 said:
Yes, because give a Doom Tag to Scenarios is super-hard. :shrug:

Assire is the "only" Carataker now! :coolstory:
Click to expand...
Sadly, this is what I mean by upsetting the balance of the rest of the game with new things like scenario and defender. Now they will probably have to change Assire, a card which was normally completely fine, just because of scenario. And so ruin every other deck that finds some use for Assire.

And for what? Scenario seems more annoying and one dimensional than anything else in the game, so the benefit is minimal at best. How boring is it to play against poison and bombardment? Was that really something that improved the game?

Spam poison vs X deck, it's just bad. That's basically the whole game. Spam poison, react and/or try to do something productive while that happens.

And ofcourse, those people have to bring Assire and whatever supporting card to spam even more poison, because that's their only gameplan and tactic. That's never how gwent has been for me in the past, it's suppose to be a multi-dimensional game with many things going on.
 
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GrénnesMann

GrénnesMann

Fresh user
#7
Mar 6, 2020
Fhrek1986 said:
Yes, because give a Doom Tag to Scenarios is super-hard. :shrug:

Assire is the "only" Carataker now! :coolstory:
Click to expand...
Doomed cards can be purified, and can then be resurrected from the Graveyard.
 
Fhrek1986

Fhrek1986

Rookie
#8
Mar 6, 2020
TheGiantDonut said:
Doomed cards can be purified, and can then be resurrected from the Graveyard.
Click to expand...
At least the player would have to waste one turn purifying the card...
Anyway, Carataker took the nerfhammer and scenarios still running wild.

NG still annoying and replaying them
 
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mazeebra

mazeebra

Forum regular
#9
Mar 6, 2020
TheGiantDonut said:
Doomed cards can be purified, and can then be resurrected from the Graveyard.
Click to expand...
It's possible with "self-banish". Banish self, like the strategems.

"Once scenario is finish, banish self", something like that.
Post automatically merged: Mar 6, 2020

Fhrek1986 said:
At least the player would have to waste one turn purifying the card...
Anyway, Carataker took the nerfhammer and scenarios still running wild.

NG still annoying and replaying them
Click to expand...
Not sure scenarios was well thought through in the first place. It creates the most boring and one-dimensional matches. And then was the caretaker, replay etc.

Luckily, the MOST one dimensional and boring scenario of them all can still be replayed. :LOL:
 
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Fhrek1986

Fhrek1986

Rookie
#10
Mar 6, 2020
mazeebra said:
It's possible with "self-banish". Banish self, like the strategems.

"Once scenario is finish, banish self", something like that.
Click to expand...
See, there is better option to solve the Scenario madness, but DEVs decided to touch one other card that has uses in other decks and build situations... and still...they left Scenarios untouched.

Because they can't give up and step back on the MoO "problematic jewel" feature.
 
BoYoDes

BoYoDes

Rookie
#11
Mar 6, 2020
What exactly card will you replay with 14p Caretaker aside Scenario?
 
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GrénnesMann

GrénnesMann

Fresh user
#12
Mar 6, 2020
Scenarios should be changed from being an Artefact card to a totally new card type, simply called "Scenario". When destroyed or at the end of the round, the game should handle Scenario cards like Strategem cards, i.e. they do not go into the Graveyard.

EDIT: - I just read mazeebra's post above, which pretty much said the same thing.
 
Draconifors

Draconifors

Moderator
#13
Mar 6, 2020
TheGiantDonut said:
Scenarios should be changed from being an Artefact card to a totally new card type, simply called "Scenario".
Click to expand...
And then it would be impossible to destroy them while they're on the board...
 
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GrénnesMann

GrénnesMann

Fresh user
#14
Mar 6, 2020
Draconifors said:
And then it would be impossible to destroy them while they're on the board...
Click to expand...
True - but I bet that could be fairly easily fixed by changing all existing Artefact removal cards so that they can remove Artefact and Scenario cards, and update those cards' descriptions accordingly.
 
Fhrek1986

Fhrek1986

Rookie
#15
Mar 6, 2020
Draconifors said:
And then it would be impossible to destroy them while they're on the board...
Click to expand...

Still, don't need to change their Artifact tag, meaning they can be targeted by Bomb Heaver, Dancing Star and Dimeritium Bomb, but they could have a self-banishing mechanic after use all "charges" that prevent it to go to the Graveyard.


BoYoDes said:
What exactly card will you replay with 14p Caretaker aside Scenario?
Click to expand...
I still can reuse my broken Water of Brokilon! On my well balanced ST Harmony Deckl
 
GrénnesMann

GrénnesMann

Fresh user
#16
Mar 6, 2020
Ace of Plays had some good suggestions for re-working the way Artefact and Scenario cards work:
 
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mazeebra

mazeebra

Forum regular
#17
Mar 6, 2020
BoYoDes said:
What exactly card will you replay with 14p Caretaker aside Scenario?
Click to expand...
Nothing, nada. Caretaker was a very bad card before scenario.

Perhaps you'll replay thunderbolt?
 
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Draconifors

Draconifors

Moderator
#18
Mar 6, 2020
Fhrek1986 said:
Still, don't need to change their Artifact tag
Click to expand...
I was replying to a post that suggested exactly that. Not your post.

TheGiantDonut said:
True - but I bet that could be fairly easily fixed by changing all existing Artefact removal cards so that they can remove Artefact and Scenario cards, and update those cards' descriptions accordingly.
Click to expand...
Complicated, but better.
 
Fhrek1986

Fhrek1986

Rookie
#19
Mar 6, 2020
BoYoDes said:
What exactly card will you replay with 14p Caretaker aside Scenario?
Click to expand...
mazeebra said:
Nothing, nada. Caretaker was a very bad card before scenario.

Perhaps you'll replay thunderbolt?
Click to expand...
There you are wrong, Carataker was a threatening card, messing with Graveyard could bring nice surprises. Carataker was like SK Second Wind Leader Ability. Using it well could change games. Until, it was turned unidimensional by... wait for it... Scenarios.

The core source of problems, SCENARIOS, before them... every faction had their Artifact removal... Defenders weren't a problem... doubling golds was annoying but not outrageous...

Since release of Scenarios, the game has been revamped to support it. ALL GAME has been touched and creating caos, just to justify the addition of Scenarios.
 
4RM3D

4RM3D

Moderator
#20
Mar 6, 2020
This artifact discussion reminds me of something else. Actually, this applies to the change to Avallac'h, which happens a while ago, but I only just remembered and I wanted to mention it somewhere: The Holy Trinity is no more. Same thing is happening with other cards, like Caretaker. Older cards are being reworked because newer cards makes them OP. Talk about design space issues, sheesh. In any case, changing Caretaker wasn't the best solution to "solve" scenarios.

A guy visits the doctor and complains that his body hurts wherever he touches it. What does the doctor CDPR do? Band-aid everywhere the patient game hurts. What should have been done is just fix the damn broken finger scenario. And this analogy isn't just limited to scenarios either, unfortunately.
 
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