Revert Xavier Lemmens

[mazeebra]

Ok, so, at the time it might have been reasonable to nerf Xavier Lemmens. I don't quite remember his old ability (5 banish was it).. Anyways, it was nerfed to banish 3 cards which is a bit underwhelming in the current meta.

I've been experimenting with this card as a tool, and banishing 3 cards is not really that powerful, but banishing 5 could be good value. Considering this card is not really good in all matchups, 5 banish would be a better overall balance. Against those opponents where you actually need to banish cards in the graveyard, 3 isn't even giving you the proper value that you want, but 5 would probably.

There are more decks now which utilize the graveyard in various ways, and denying this value with 3 banish is not really viable, but becomes somewhat viable at 5. Example Skellige scenario, Skellige knickers/roach, Lippy etc,, big monsters and some other situations. Lemmens don't seem to be a popular card, and the reason is probably because the value is not good enough.

In the few matchups Lemmens could get good value, he simply does not get good value, which is quite sad.

 

[Anarinyane]

I agree! I started running him in a few decks, and especially against SK Lippy, 3 banishes isn’t nearly enough. To get good value, you need to banish Cerys plus two of the shield maidens, (as otherwise, that is still an 11-point play), you need to banish Champion (the 12point bear) to deny sigrdrifa rite and ideally Roach/knickers/crowmother 5 banishes would be a good compromise, and restrict at least some of the double play value of that deck.

edit: on the other hand, he is great value against second wind scenario - banish ermion and you get an insta forfeit in many cases

 

[mazeebra]

The old ability of Lemmens was to banish the whole graveyard. That's too much, but 3 is just bad. There are so many decks and cards that have advantages of working in the graveyard somehow. Lemmens should be powerful against those decks. Bringing Lemmens comes with the risk/reward of facing a deck with no graveyard things going on.

I would say it is fully resonable to boost this card to banish 5 cards in the graveyard instead of 3.

 

[Guest 4368268]

Agreed. He's a pretty pricey tech card that will only appear in certain metas and this is one where he should shine and his inclusion should be rewarded but it's very underwhelming.

 

[mazeebra]

Agreed. He's a pretty pricey tech card that will only appear in certain metas and this is one where he should shine and his inclusion should be rewarded but it's very underwhelming.

Yeah, exactly. He should shine, but he doesn't. I've tried him myself in various decks, but it's just not good value. He can't really get value with 3 banishes.

 

[quintivarium]

The problem is not really 3 banishes - they do severely crimp most graveyard strategies, but they are not an instant win which seems to be the request here. The problem is that contexts in which altering graveyards makes any difference at all are very few. I think the best fix is to introduce more graveyard based archetypes or packages.

 

[Payus]

I've been running lemmens in my SK deck and he is fine.
If you want more graveyard denial run 2x Northern winds, gaunter, muzzle, Cyprian, etc...

Lemmens Banishing more than 3 cards would excessively affect SK and none of the other factions would care.

Would you like a card like this for all factions? Like one that disables Harmony, one that makes aristocrats poison themselves or stuff like that? Doesn't it sound lke a bomb heaver/scenarios situation?

 

[mazeebra]

The problem is not really 3 banishes - they do severely crimp most graveyard strategies, but they are not an instant win which seems to be the request here. The problem is that contexts in which altering graveyards makes any difference at all are very few. I think the best fix is to introduce more graveyard based archetypes or packages.

What you are saying is there should be no counter to decks that rely 100% on the graveyard. 5 banishes is not a full counter to those but severely cripples them. Most strategies have some kind of counter, but graveyard not really, they don't come up against decks that can really counter them unless it's Nilfgaard with Lemmens AND 2 Arbalests, which is overkill and will work poorly against any other decks than graveyard decks.

 

[Jamborinio]

Niche cards for very specific archetypes are never really likely to work that well because they're not consistent enough. The best way for Lemmens to be usable (and this goes for lots of cards other than Lemmens), is for them to have more varied secondary options.

Maybe if the melee version was burning cards in yours and/or opponent's graveyards, while ranged version was unlock a unit for example.

Unfortunately, too often these types of tech cards end up as bricks in most match-ups and consequently, to hone the deck they are eventually replaced with something more reliable. 8 points is a lot for an inconsistent card.