RIP Monster faction.

+
The Leshen should have an order ability to damage himself by 2 then spawn 2 wolf tokens (one on each side of the Leshen and each having 1 power)! :D
That'd make him a bit more interesting while also those tokens could be of some use for MO faction since they have some cards that require a sacrifice for an effect or boost.
(we could go even further by having each wolf have a zeal ability to cause 1 point bleed to an enemy card... though this would then be 2 full points more, so maybe like damage the Leshen by another 1 when bleed is activated)
I'd love this. A leshen without his wolfies is a sad leshen. :sad:
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Imho shield is very undersupported because there aren't really any other payoff cards than Roegner and to a lesser degree cursed sorceress (already a bad card before master Mirror dropped)

I dont really think it needs more support, at least not in the forms of new cards: Donimir and Vandergrift' their main purposes are defender and resilience, the shield is a bonus. That guy that boosts itself by 3 when has a shield is a standalone engine, immortals works well with cursed sorceress, immortal cavalry is good for swarm strategies and Roegner and artificier can simply protect engines, which is valuable enough so it doesnt need further synergies to be worth it.
 
how the hell did cdpr come to the idea to nerf auberon? :giveup: :giveup:
it's honestly such a shit card now. yeah it can trigger two thrives, wow. that was actually not the intention behind it was it? the amount of games I've lost by now with my WH deck because auberon would give me the choice between garbage 1, garbage 2 and garbage 3 is quite amazing. everytime I have riders in my deck in round 3 and pray for a rider spawn, it obviously doesnt happen. in fact it feels like riders is an option about 5% of the time max.
this archetype feels so unfinished, even after MM. I also really really love how often ga'els becomes a 2 point brick in my hand r3 because of the lack of WH specials, so I have to use shitty organic cards that were powercrept over a year ago.
#rantfinished
 
how the hell did cdpr come to the idea to nerf auberon? :giveup: :giveup:
it's honestly such a shit card now. yeah it can trigger two thrives, wow. that was actually not the intention behind it was it? the amount of games I've lost by now with my WH deck because auberon would give me the choice between garbage 1, garbage 2 and garbage 3 is quite amazing. everytime I have riders in my deck in round 3 and pray for a rider spawn, it obviously doesnt happen. in fact it feels like riders is an option about 5% of the time max.
this archetype feels so unfinished, even after MM. I also really really love how often ga'els becomes a 2 point brick in my hand r3 because of the lack of WH specials, so I have to use shitty organic cards that were powercrept over a year ago.
#rantfinished
Just happened to me a few minutes ago and I just forfeited lol A lot of forfeits since the patch. So I added Imlerith just in case I got stuck with Ge'els I could discard him and draw. But then when I did that I drew winter queen. Hilarious...then I had to make room to counter SW by adding Tesham Mutna but now that means I can't get Auberon final form and he was already bad...now he's just garbage. I want to remove him but the options are playing into tall removal or just do what everyone else is and go back to scenario.

Basically MO players have to go back to pre MM
:ok:
 
Just happened to me a few minutes ago and I just forfeited lol A lot of forfeits since the patch. So I added Imlerith just in case I got stuck with Ge'els I could discard him and draw. But then when I did that I drew winter queen. Hilarious...then I had to make room to counter SW by adding Tesham Mutna but now that means I can't get Auberon final form and he was already bad...now he's just garbage. I want to remove him but the options are playing into tall removal or just do what everyone else is and go back to scenario.

Basically MO players have to go back to pre MM
:ok:
I also play imlerith in my WH deck. usually to consume goliath, get dominance and get a free kill on wrath. imlerith also draws my (usually) last gold card from the deck after using naglfar, the card feels okay but could still need a buff imo. but auberon has I think 8 possible cards to spawn which is just too unreliable. if they changed him to create and spawn a bronze WH unit from your starting deck he would be SO much better imo. also with 5 power he never lives unless I first play him with a navigator, which is like my second most used target after conqueror.
WH also really needs a 4/5p removal special imo, something simple like damage a unit by 4, if there is frost on the row damage it by 6. natural selection is just such a lackluster removal card, not being able to kill even a 5. hideous feast is great in this deck but how is this not a 4p card? :shrug: (thought the same about waylay just before)
 
I also play imlerith in my WH deck. usually to consume goliath, get dominance and get a free kill on wrath. imlerith also draws my (usually) last gold card from the deck after using naglfar, the card feels okay but could still need a buff imo. but auberon has I think 8 possible cards to spawn which is just too unreliable. if they changed him to create and spawn a bronze WH unit from your starting deck he would be SO much better imo. also with 5 power he never lives unless I first play him with a navigator, which is like my second most used target after conqueror.
WH also really needs a 4/5p removal special imo, something simple like damage a unit by 4, if there is frost on the row damage it by 6. natural selection is just such a lackluster removal card, not being able to kill even a 5. hideous feast is great in this deck but how is this not a 4p card? :shrug: (thought the same about waylay just before)

- There are some "unwritten" rules you have to abide with when you choose to include Imlerith and Naglfar in your deck. Don't even have to remind you that using Imlerith you play into tall removal which other factions do have in spades in comparison to MOs that have almost none.

- The Frost Queen must be already drawn out before you drop Imlerith else you risk wasting it's thinning value.
Same thing goes for the Naglfar.
In order to reduce the randomness of drawing you have to have used already most of your gold cards, else you risk drawing something you don't want or need at that specific moment.

- These conditions imo make those two cards really inconvenient to include/use cause you leave a lot of things to chance when you do.
Unless you perfect draw, most of the times they will mess it up for you.

- Poor King Auberon got castracised by the ignorant devs, I agree that they ruined the card, especially when you can't choose what to spawn when you drop him at the board.
It's like they wanted a WH archetype deck but they wanted it limping. There's no excuse for what they done so don't even try defending it (referring to everyone). :disapprove:
The nerfs would have been kindah okay if you could somehow choose what to spawn but no, "we can't have good things".

- in conclusion, the WH deck when including the tutor for the WH specials, Imlerith, Naglfar can be great but most of the times imo can F you up cause you have to draw all the right cards at the right time to make it work.
You need consistency to be able keep dominance and to go against the factions that dominate the meta atm.
Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it can't be fun sometimes but in terms of competitiveness I find it greatly outclassed by OH DW.
 
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I also play imlerith in my WH deck. usually to consume goliath, get dominance and get a free kill on wrath. imlerith also draws my (usually) last gold card from the deck after using naglfar, the card feels okay but could still need a buff imo. but auberon has I think 8 possible cards to spawn which is just too unreliable. if they changed him to create and spawn a bronze WH unit from your starting deck he would be SO much better imo. also with 5 power he never lives unless I first play him with a navigator, which is like my second most used target after conqueror.
WH also really needs a 4/5p removal special imo, something simple like damage a unit by 4, if there is frost on the row damage it by 6. natural selection is just such a lackluster removal card, not being able to kill even a 5. hideous feast is great in this deck but how is this not a 4p card? :shrug: (thought the same about waylay just before)
Please no more 4 and 5 points removal. Factions need not be equal.
 
Please no more 4 and 5 points removal. Factions need not be equal.

Indeed factions "need not be equall" but MOs do need a boost.
Doesn't have to be low provision removal but we definitely need tall removal like any other faction.
Tall removal that doesn't need you to include a card that might end up not doing a great job like Imlerith's current iteration.
 
Indeed factions "need not be equall" but MOs do need a boost.
Doesn't have to be low provision removal but we definitely need tall removal like any other faction.
Tall removal that doesn't need you to include a card that might end up not doing a great job like Imlerith's current iteration.
Plenty of tall removal options in the neutral pool. Just like cheap *removal* tall *removal* is another form of control and I think we Need anymore control. Monsters probably needs more definition in its archetypes or entirely new concepts, as sometimes it feels very...monolithic.
 
Please no more 4 and 5 points removal. Factions need not be equal.
I share this sentiment but the devs have sort of forced them to be a necessity by not nerfing things properly. These days you have to kill 5 point engines in one turn or they'll somehow boost out of killrange making you fall behind.
It's a complex issue.
 
I share this sentiment but the devs have sort of forced them to be a necessity by not nerfing things properly. These days you have to kill 5 point engines in one turn or they'll somehow boost out of killrange making you fall behind.
It's a complex issue.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Plenty of tall removal options in the neutral pool. Just like cheap *removal* tall *removal* is another form of control and I think we Need anymore control. Monsters probably needs more definition in its archetypes or entirely new concepts, as sometimes it feels very...monolithic.

- You play neutral if you like, I want them to work on the whole "devotion" concept they just introduced.
The WH is damn weak if you play neutral.
Now if they don't wanna do that they shouldn't have introduced this whole new concept and halfarsing it by making some factions stupidly strong.

- There are some devotion decks out there that will nuke you out of existence.
There needs to be some kind of "refresh", all I want is for MO devotion decks to be worthy competitively.
 
I also play imlerith in my WH deck. usually to consume goliath, get dominance and get a free kill on wrath. imlerith also draws my (usually) last gold card from the deck after using naglfar, the card feels okay but could still need a buff imo. but auberon has I think 8 possible cards to spawn which is just too unreliable. if they changed him to create and spawn a bronze WH unit from your starting deck he would be SO much better imo. also with 5 power he never lives unless I first play him with a navigator, which is like my second most used target after conqueror.
WH also really needs a 4/5p removal special imo, something simple like damage a unit by 4, if there is frost on the row damage it by 6. natural selection is just such a lackluster removal card, not being able to kill even a 5. hideous feast is great in this deck but how is this not a 4p card? :shrug: (thought the same about waylay just before)
I only added Imlerith in case of a bad draw, I don't find him useful otherwise. Making him a big target doesn't make wrath better it makes it worse. Think about it, would you rather your opponent Heatwave a 12pt card or a 7pt card (his previous power). They either won't want to waste it on a not so tall unit and he was just outside of any normal removal cards which usually cap at 6pt damage. If they used it on him then your next tall play was safe. That worked beautifully in organic decks.

Pugo works better than Goliat in my case plus I use Griffins which are just two pts less without the Goliat risk. So I can also use Imlerith on them. It's an organic deck though so different approach from what you probably go for.


I agree with Natural selection, the meta has changed but older cards have not. Look at Nature's Gift, it's basically a better version of Arachas Swarm which only spawn a token. ST nature cards have added bonuses like boosting your hand.
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Please no more 4 and 5 points removal. Factions need not be equal.
What does that mean though? I'm pretty sure we're past that. Everyone has echo tutors except MO, everyone has a relatively cheap removal or reset option except MO. That ship has sailed my friend. If the argument is everyone shouldn't have the same options then give them other options that can compete
 
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- There are some "unwritten" rules you have to abide with when you choose to include Imlerith and Naglfar in your deck. Don't even have to remind you that using Imlerith you play into tall removal which other factions do have in spades in comparison to MOs that have almost none.

- The Frost Queen must be already drawn out before you drop Imlerith else you risk wasting it's thinning value.
Same thing goes for the Naglfar.
In order to reduce the randomness of drawing you have to have used already most of your gold cards, else you risk drawing something you don't want or need at that specific moment.

- These conditions imo make those two cards really inconvenient to include/use cause you leave a lot of things to chance when you do.
Unless you perfect draw, most of the times they will mess it up for you.
I know mate, Imlerith is not an easy to use card and you have to know what you're doing but apart from him being just too expensive I actually like the card and it often greatly adds to my consistency. I have a lot of golds in my WH deck and I often draw every single one of them, the last one usually in r3 with naglfar imlerith combo. and yes, imlerith plays into tall removal but that's a risk you have to take when you play a deck built around dominance, atleast I can protect him from poison with carapace (which works way better for me than that white frost crap).

Please no more 4 and 5 points removal. Factions need not be equal.
trust me, I feel you but honestly it feels like an absolute necessity these days and I cant use alzurs thunder because it breaks dominance, which the WH archetype is built around. it kind of works with the organics as well but either way I think WH definitely needs specials outside of frost and naglfar for gaels to have more flexibility (which is his purpose). and since pretty much the only control WH has is frost, which sucks at actually killing things, I think a 5p removal would be fitting.

I only added Imlerith in case of a bad draw, I don't find him useful otherwise. Making him a big target doesn't make wrath better it makes it worse. Think about it, would you rather your opponent Heatwave a 12pt card or a 7pt card (his previous power). They either won't want to waste it on a not so tall unit and he was just outside of any normal removal cards which usually cap at 6pt damage. If they used it on him then your next tall play was safe. That worked beautifully in organic decks.

Pugo works better than Goliat in my case plus I use Griffins which are just two pts less without the Goliat risk. So I can also use Imlerith on them. It's an organic deck though so different approach from what you probably go for.


I agree with Natural selection, the meta has changed but older cards have not. Look at Nature's Gift, it's basically a better version of Arachas Swarm which only spawn a token. ST nature cards have added bonuses like boosting your hand.
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What does that mean though? I'm pretty sure we're past that. Everyone has echo tutors except MO, everyone has a relatively cheap removal or reset option except MO. That ship has sailed my friend. If the argument is everyone shouldn't have the same options then give them other options that can compete
actually I've had my imlerith removed only rarely, since I usually play it after things like auberon, eredin etc which eat removal. besides, I play carapace so it cant effectively be poisoned at least. I had both pugo and goliath in my deck for a while put pugo didnt work well outside of the imlerith interaction so I kicked him, goliath I can just play and use a conqueror for Imlerith if my draws are messed up. griffins are also not a choice for me since I dont play arachas. guess my deck is a WH meme deck, I even kicked larvas for hounds but except for current tier 1 match ups the deck is very fun and decent to play imo :cry:
 
I know mate, Imlerith is not an easy to use card and you have to know what you're doing but apart from him being just too expensive I actually like the card and it often greatly adds to my consistency. I have a lot of golds in my WH deck and I often draw every single one of them, the last one usually in r3 with naglfar imlerith combo. and yes, imlerith plays into tall removal but that's a risk you have to take when you play a deck built around dominance, atleast I can protect him from poison with carapace (which works way better for me than that white frost crap).


actually I've had my imlerith removed only rarely, since I usually play it after things like auberon, eredin etc which eat removal. besides, I play carapace so it cant effectively be poisoned at least. I had both pugo and goliath in my deck for a while put pugo didnt work well outside of the imlerith interaction so I kicked him, goliath I can just play and use a conqueror for Imlerith if my draws are messed up. griffins are also not a choice for me since I dont play arachas. guess my deck is a WH meme deck, I even kicked larvas for hounds but except for current tier 1 match ups the deck is very fun and decent to play imo :cry:

So.. are you satisfied by his performance..?

I haven't tested him using the new Carapace LA, tbh i have so many ideas in my mind involving this Leader Ability.
I will give him another chance, even though i consider him to be a risky gamble with all this tall removal going around.

Cheers ! :beer:
 
So.. are you satisfied by his performance..?

I haven't tested him using the new Carapace LA, tbh i have so many ideas in my mind involving this Leader Ability.
I will give him another chance, even though i consider him to be a risky gamble with all this tall removal going around.

Cheers !:beer:
There lies the question, how's his performance...what's his purpose exactly? Wrath? I often find myself wondering why he's in my hand lol discarding and drawing for me has been more miss than hit and because ppl are teching against NR I've had him reset or hard removed several times. Personally he's there because I don't have a better option. It's between him and Naglfar and both are bad so it's just the lesser of the two in my mind
 
same here, I use him because there is a lack of good alternatives (and because his art and lines are badass) and like I said I think he wouldnt be OP at 8 provisions either but what do I know :ohstopit: . but he does have some purpose. often times, my opponents will try to gain dominance and while I have leader and beast in my deck, sometimes I need dominance immediately and imlerith sits at 9-13 depending on consume and auberon on board PLUS I can just annihilate the opponents big unit if it's still bigger than him with wrath next turn (if I didnt already use it). not having dominance is pretty much GG for my list. you could also just play yghern and ozzy for more consistent value.
that being said, I usually just play casual mode with this deck and I dont think imlerith has a place in your deck if all you aim for is winning. I'm more enjoying the thematic aspect of this deck.
I kind of wish they would rework imlerith again and make him truly terrifying but I dont think it's going to happen.

and btw, naglfar is not bad imo, it's not an oneiromancy kind of card but just a consistency tool for r2 or r3 and imo has very good synergy with imlerith. it's just that imlerith is too costly I think.

edit: but what's funny about the WH archetype is how it relies on dominance but is HORRIBLE at keeping dominance. in any monster mirror I'm usually screwed because the 0815 consume decks can go way taller with ease. it's such a bad concept tbh, you desperetly need dominance which is literally impossible against decks like hidden cache, symbiosis, probably even SK with their new greatswords and endless removal, shieldwall etc etc. but at the same time you're not allowed to tech in tall removal like heatwave, igni etc because it breaks devotion. those two mechanics go sooo poorly together, it's actually really frustrating sometimes.
 
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same here, I use him because there is a lack of good alternatives (and because his art and lines are badass) and like I said I think he wouldnt be OP at 8 provisions either but what do I know :ohstopit: . but he does have some purpose. often times, my opponents will try to gain dominance and while I have leader and beast in my deck, sometimes I need dominance immediately and imlerith sits at 9-13 depending on consume and auberon on board PLUS I can just annihilate the opponents big unit if it's still bigger than him with wrath next turn (if I didnt already use it). not having dominance is pretty much GG for my list. you could also just play yghern and ozzy for more consistent value.
that being said, I usually just play casual mode with this deck and I dont think imlerith has a place in your deck if all you aim for is winning. I'm more enjoying the thematic aspect of this deck.
I kind of wish they would rework imlerith again and make him truly terrifying but I dont think it's going to happen.

and btw, naglfar is not bad imo, it's not an oneiromancy kind of card but just a consistency tool for r2 or r3 and imo has very good synergy with imlerith. it's just that imlerith is too costly I think.

edit: but what's funny about the WH archetype is how it relies on dominance but is HORRIBLE at keeping dominance. in any monster mirror I'm usually screwed because the 0815 consume decks can go way taller with ease. it's such a bad concept tbh, you desperetly need dominance which is literally impossible against decks like hidden cache, symbiosis, probably even SK with their new greatswords and endless removal, shieldwall etc etc. but at the same time you're not allowed to tech in tall removal like heatwave, igni etc because it breaks devotion. those two mechanics go sooo poorly together, it's actually really frustrating sometimes.

There is literally 20 options that are better than imlerith.

Naglfar is infinitely better.

Detlaff/yghern....any other 10 prov card is actually better.

Hell, drop imlerith, and grab lower prov cards. All those options are much better than imlerith.

If you like him for aesthetics, fine.

But no way in hell does imlerith makes its way intoa deck that wants to win seriously.
 
If you like him for aesthetics, fine.

But no way in hell does imlerith makes its way intoa deck that wants to win seriously.
that's exactly what I said though :) I play him solely for aesthetic/lore purpose and just evaluated the card and said it's not complete trash imo, but not worth 10 provision. I also said I also use naglfar and that those 2 cards go well with each other since imlerith can draw the other gold card naglfar puts on top of your deck.
 
There is literally 20 options that are better than imlerith.

Naglfar is infinitely better.

Detlaff/yghern....any other 10 prov card is actually better.

Hell, drop imlerith, and grab lower prov cards. All those options are much better than imlerith.

If you like him for aesthetics, fine.

But no way in hell does imlerith makes its way intoa deck that wants to win seriously.
Detlaff means switching to a deathwish deck...thats not so much an alternative as changing your entire tactic. Same for Yghern.

Low provision cards likely mean focusing on thrive which are only effective in long rounds. Most netdeck players will push for R2, that's just where the meta is at the moment. Perhaps it works for you I hardly see that working well in the pro ladder. I can't tell egow many players I've forced into using Naglfar in R2 and because they have all these lower provision cards you speak of they lose in a short R3 because of bad draws. To each his own though, if it works then why not. Just doesn't work for me, the matching algorithm and I don't get along well.
 
Detlaff means switching to a deathwish deck...thats not so much an alternative as changing your entire tactic. Same for Yghern.

Low provision cards likely mean focusing on thrive which are only effective in long rounds. Most netdeck players will push for R2, that's just where the meta is at the moment. Perhaps it works for you I hardly see that working well in the pro ladder. I can't tell egow many players I've forced into using Naglfar in R2 and because they have all these lower provision cards you speak of they lose in a short R3 because of bad draws. To each his own though, if it works then why not. Just doesn't work for me, the matching algorithm and I don't get along well.

I've been in pro for the past 4-5 seasons now (started in april).

More specifically, I reached pro with frost this season.

Imlerith to defend a round 2 bleed is a terrible idea. NR, SK,NG will just nuke it into orbit. Non devo decks could just yeetwave/reset you.

Re allocating the prov allocated to imlerith doesnt mean you have nekkers in your deck. It means you might be able to afford an extra goliath and striga.

Or a detlaf, and with a few changes to.some bronzes, you now have a 15 point play.

Doesnt matter howyouspin, every alternative is better than imlerith.

Unless you think he's just too pretty.
 
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