A little bit late to the party, but still I want to say I agree that due to constant tumbling TW2 felt at times more like a Roll Playing Game, than anything else.
The only solution I came up with to this is making rolling vigour based - one roll means -1 vigour bar. This would also solve the problem of vastly overpowered Quen sign - because it blocks regeneration you would have to think when to use it to the best advantage instead of abusing is as a godmode.
In order to avoid the situation when you have run out of vigour and cannot escape from superior enemy force it could be a good idea to make blocking independent of vigour - so you can block a number of hits, and regenerate one point. If you think about it it makes more sense that a skilled swordsman gets more tired from rolling like mad, than from parrying attacks, which should be a piece of cake for him.
Of course, another problem arises then - blocking becoming a godmode itself. A fix - make it so blocking only reduces damage dealt from 65 to 80% (depending on upgrade and sword used) so you can't just sit in one place and shrug off attacks as if they were nothing. Turning off ability to parry from all direction could help here as well.
The only solution I came up with to this is making rolling vigour based - one roll means -1 vigour bar. This would also solve the problem of vastly overpowered Quen sign - because it blocks regeneration you would have to think when to use it to the best advantage instead of abusing is as a godmode.
In order to avoid the situation when you have run out of vigour and cannot escape from superior enemy force it could be a good idea to make blocking independent of vigour - so you can block a number of hits, and regenerate one point. If you think about it it makes more sense that a skilled swordsman gets more tired from rolling like mad, than from parrying attacks, which should be a piece of cake for him.
Of course, another problem arises then - blocking becoming a godmode itself. A fix - make it so blocking only reduces damage dealt from 65 to 80% (depending on upgrade and sword used) so you can't just sit in one place and shrug off attacks as if they were nothing. Turning off ability to parry from all direction could help here as well.
I didn't like the rolling. My combat strategy was just throw on the defensive sign and roll around behind them, using strong attacks until they block then repeat...
Nice idea Mrowakus, be nice if there were a number of different blocking animations as well depending on where the blows are coming from somewhat like in blood omen 2, the old legacy of kain game.
I consider rolling to be cheap and will not play the game unless it's changed.
If i don't like the combat then i don't play the game no matter how good the story is.
Also keyboard controls are about the worst i have ever played in a game.
Until the above are fixed or there is a mod i will not play the game.
Nothing to do with difficulty, i played the prologue and most of chapter 1 without using meditation or any levelling, just sword and i had no problems but i am not enjoying the combat.
If CDPR don't want to fix the problems then i will wait for TW3 and hope it's better.
If i don't like the combat then i don't play the game no matter how good the story is.
Also keyboard controls are about the worst i have ever played in a game.
Until the above are fixed or there is a mod i will not play the game.
Nothing to do with difficulty, i played the prologue and most of chapter 1 without using meditation or any levelling, just sword and i had no problems but i am not enjoying the combat.
If CDPR don't want to fix the problems then i will wait for TW3 and hope it's better.
You're missing one hell of a game FChopin but I can understand your reasoning.
I dont mind the rolling gameplay wise, but I agree it looks kind of odd.
So I am all far different animations.
So I am all far different animations.
I don't know how you guys feel but in Batman Arkham Asylum fighting hordes of enemies was implemented quite nicely. There was an awesome way to block and fight and switch between them very easily while taking on up to 3 enemies at a time. I read that the next Batman game you will be able to handle 4 people at a time...and this is with bare hands...given that the Witcher is a badass with a sword, something similar where he can multitask and take apart his enemies seemed like a necessary game mechanic that was just not implemented. Instead you figure out how many strikes you can get in on the character and then roll. It's just tedious at best. I enjoy combat and I enjoy a difficult challenge but I don't enjoy feeling that the combat is only difficult because the necessary tools are not provided and I just have to make do.
Quen and rolling is all that I do, it's what feels most intuitive and easy so I go with it. And that's also the biggest flaw in this game's combat system cause it rewards you for being lazy.
Yeah I know what you mean. Aard was an other spell I use so much, I swear I've taken down bosses very fast just by casting aard then 3 power swings in that order for like 2 or 3 times and bosses go down in 10 seconds.yayodeanno said:
Now I kinda like the combat system in TW2 a little bit than TW1, like 2% more than TW1. But, you know what would make TW2 really awesome? Is if they just keep TW1 combat system and improved it more. Like I think they were planning with the console version "Rise of the White Wolf".
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksa_nWGh02U&feature=related[/media]
It gave you not only the 3 fighting styles but as you can see you can do the "tuck and roll" that we do so much in TW2 and the side spin evade as well.
Just gonna pop in and say that I really enjoyed the combat.
Sure, there were some small bugs and issues here and there but nothing that really ruined the experience for me. I like the fact that you have to be an active part in the battlefield to survive, while still retaining the RPG aspect. The whole "flanking" thing also brought a welcomed sense of realism to the combat.
As for the "rolling is un-witchery" thing... i'm not really sure what you mean here? The visuel style of the moves and attacks Geralt performs is rather similar to the first game (imo) - Geralt just moves around more. And rolling around on the ground is still preferable to constantly doing backflips and pirouettes. But maybe that's just me...
I'm not saying that combat is perfect - sure it could use a bit of polishing. But I still think it's pretty good.
Sure, there were some small bugs and issues here and there but nothing that really ruined the experience for me. I like the fact that you have to be an active part in the battlefield to survive, while still retaining the RPG aspect. The whole "flanking" thing also brought a welcomed sense of realism to the combat.
As for the "rolling is un-witchery" thing... i'm not really sure what you mean here? The visuel style of the moves and attacks Geralt performs is rather similar to the first game (imo) - Geralt just moves around more. And rolling around on the ground is still preferable to constantly doing backflips and pirouettes. But maybe that's just me...
I'm not saying that combat is perfect - sure it could use a bit of polishing. But I still think it's pretty good.
Just to make it clear I came to enjoy the combat and have become moderately proficient at it I just felt the over reliance on rolling was somewhat ridiculous, I can't exactly describe it better but this may be just a personal bugbear of mine (which hasn't stopped me completing the game numerous times).
That rise of the white wolf video is illuminating, you can see a lot of Assassins of Kings in it.
That rise of the white wolf video is illuminating, you can see a lot of Assassins of Kings in it.
Yes i've got to admit i've been shouting at my screen a few times when old Geralt decided to stop moving and indulge in carnal thoughts of sorceresses past mid combat, jars when you consider how fast the witchers are supposed to be.
I've got to start using signs more, I just don't like magic.
I've got to start using signs more, I just don't like magic.
Which again, signifies that both rolling and Quen are broken. Part of the problem with Quen is that it so damn universal. There is not a single fight in the game you cannot win by spamming Quen like there's no tomorrow.Pham said:
Actually, this applies to every effective approach you use in game. Once you find one solution that works, you can apply it to every single combat situation. There is no need for any variety whatsoever. You can use the same potion sets, same traps, same granades, same attack patterns on any given opponent. Sure, there are more options out there, but all of them work in every possible event - there's practically no incentive to experiment, other than "let's see how it works".
In other words, in spite of devs' assurances, the game is not very tactical at all. Once you get the hang of controlls, and find your favourite solution, there's no need to anticipate you opponents movements, adjust your approach, prepare yourself differently for upcoming encounter, or use options that turn out to be suboptimal (e.g. casting Igni or Axii - especially in Act 2 and 3). All you have to do is recycle what you have done before e.g. Quen, slash, slash, roll, roll, Quen... or "Thunderbolt, Rook, Swallow (all with alchemy build), slash, slash, roll, roll."
Some of you may not know it but piruette is Defensive dodge.
As of combat sure it isn't super fluid but consider that as it is it's very rewarding.
Also CDPR never had any experience with real time combat game. So as their first game it's awasome. TW3 should be much more improvement as they have already fundaments of solid combat system that even today is better than most games RT combat.
As of combat sure it isn't super fluid but consider that as it is it's very rewarding.
Also CDPR never had any experience with real time combat game. So as their first game it's awasome. TW3 should be much more improvement as they have already fundaments of solid combat system that even today is better than most games RT combat.