Maybe fewer devs would be skittish about representation if they didn't EVERY FREAKING TIME get a brutal thrashing (some carrying a grudge for years, never giving it a rest) for allegedly getting it 'wrong'...
Oh I agree, and there will always be criticism no matter what they do, but the worst possible thing you can do when you're setting your game in a society that is so desensitized to sex, is to give so little representation of the spectrum of sex that it feels completely unnatural in the given setting, and is all the more apparent for it.
I mean, there's a pretty good chance that more sexual content existed before they cut chunks of the game out too, so maybe we'll see more diversity of representation in future.
EDIT: And it could be that the writers didn't feel comfortable writing on behalf of sexual 'identities' or 'scenarios' that they didn't fully comprehend or feel they could do justice to, as well. But who knows. The whole thing would probably end up being a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.
Maybe fewer devs would be skittish about representation if they didn't EVERY FREAKING TIME get a brutal thrashing (some carrying a grudge for years, never giving it a rest) for allegedly getting it 'wrong'...
They just need to stick to their vision of the game and stand by it come what may. You can never please everyone and if you try to you just end up disappointing everyone.
Maybe fewer devs would be skittish about representation if they didn't EVERY FREAKING TIME get a brutal thrashing (some carrying a grudge for years, never giving it a rest) for allegedly getting it 'wrong'...
Create the game you can, not a game you think others want.
If you dont know hot to accurately represent something, then get help from people who do.
Its not rocket science, and some people will get angry at anything.
Ultimately relationships, love, sex. Those are really personal things... you dont get to represent absolutely everyone out there with it, no matter what you do.
And in that sense, the game works okay. But reality is that in the Cyberpunk lore as in most trans-humanist lore being exclusively gay or exclusively straight is by far a minority, not the average status quo. Especially within the scene V is in.
So ofc going for "Yea this char is gay, this char is officially bi, but gay in our setting, and these two are straight. With not a single Bi-sexual option is... really weird as a choice considering the lore the game is based on.
Oh I agree, and there will always be criticism no matter what they do, but the worst possible thing you can do when you're setting your game in a society that is so desensitized to sex, is to give so little representation of the spectrum of sex that it feels completely unnatural in the given setting, and is all the more apparent for it.
I mean, there's a pretty good chance that more sexual content existed before they cut chunks of the game out too, so maybe we'll see more diversity of representation in future.
Don't hold your breath, they cut out more essential stuff already... I agree, though, it's a damn shame all around. So much for a believable, mature, cyberpunk world in the style of the 80'ies. It appears something like that is just not possible in the current year AAA gaming world, no matter who wants to do it.
Yea, that is kinda what I mean, like, why can I not tell him of a previous girlfriend, see how he reacts to that. Or why can I not hide my past endeavors. Or well just be able to decide how much to tell him, why do I HAVE to tell him of three boyfriends? Wouldnt one be enough? two?
I mean I was actively playing my char as Bi, romancing both River and Judy... but I cant tell him of a previous girlfriend? seemed really off to me.
Ya I kind of agree. I wish I could have told River, "Sorry man I am already seeing someone." Instead of just seemingly rejecting him for no reason. Though there is nothing wrong with rejecting him for no reason either but having both options when you are already in a relationship would be nice.
Developers, authors and artists aren't obligated to cater to anyone's desires, or give anyone 'representation', or be subjected to anyone's idea of what sexuality should be. There are gay men that don't give the slight hint that they are gay and also there are gay men that are feminine. Just because they decided to portray that kind with a given character, it doesn't mean they are doing it out of prejudice.
If you don't like someone's work, don't buy it. Or refund it. If you're gonna criticize, do it constructively, instead of acting like they have bad faith because they didn't cater to your tastes.
That said, there's a distinct lack of romance options and afterthought regardless of your preferences. I assume it's mainly because voice acting and quest programming takes time and work and they were clearly rushed in the end. I don't think it's a topic worthy of a DLC tho. I'm pretty sure that whatever they do, people will just whine and complain more. Relationships clearly aren't the driving force of the story, except for Johnny's, so I'd just leave as is and work on more important stories besides who you bang or hang out with.
Maybe later they could revisit the topic, but it wouldn't be a DLC I'd buy, it's not the kind of thing I'd like to see from CDPR specially when we have the witcher expansions as reference. It would only be acceptable as maybe part of a bigger more important expansion.
Another case of people believing videogame = restaurant food and you have somehow paid for your specific version delivered and not chosen to accept what is offered and be grateful you got it.
Remember everyone that you are unique and that makes you special, along with the other 7 billion people living here.
So?
No one is obligated to do anything. This is free world (well, at least partially).
But, that doesn't mean that people can't express their opinion about something and point to a something that they believe can be fixed.
I don't understand how some people can go through life accepting just what is offered to them without requesting better...
Critics can only make things better for everyone!
And when I say everyone I mean EVERYONE - the more customers are satisfied with the product the more money for developers.
It's not so hard to satisfy wishes of majority - it just requires a bit more work.
I just don't accept your points. You way is accepting what is given to you and never strive for the better?
Well, not mine.
As for other comments, I already explained that I was using these characters only as an example.
I don't mind that these characters are the way they are. But then there should be more choices. Current choices are 100% stereotyped IN MY OPINION, although I could be wrong. I am not a God to be right about everything.
Also characters which are not romanceable by male or female players shouldn't have those dialogue options in a first place or maybe not even that kind of quests.
You don't play an RPG if you don't like going through the game YOUR WAY. Freedom of choice is the main value of a good RPG!
I couldn't disagree more. I lost count of the number of games, movies, tv shows, book, etc., etc. that "critics" have said where terrible, garbage, waste of money and so on that where loved by the overwhelming majority of people who partook in them.
Also, when a game studio sets out to make a game, it is my opinion, that they should stick to their vision and stand by it come what may. If their vision was solid and good then it will be a success regardless of what any "critic" says about it or anyone else for that matter. The whole reason they are in this mess is cause they didn't stick to their vision and pandered instead. If you try to make everyone happy you only disappoint everyone in the end.
I couldn't disagree more. I lost count of the number of games, movies, tv shows, book, etc., etc. that "critics" have said where terrible, garbage, waste of money and so on that where loved by the overwhelming majority of people who partook in them.
Also, when a game studio sets out to make a game, it is my opinion, that they should stick to their vision and stand by it come what may. If their vision was solid and good then it will be a success regardless of what any "critic" says about it or anyone else for that matter. The whole reason they are in this mess is cause they didn't stick to their vision and pandered instead. If you try to make everyone happy you only disappoint everyone in the end.
I think by critics, he was referring to 'critical fans', rather then critics who get paid for their (questionable) opinion.
You're right in one way - CDPR didn't stick to their vision, and they suffered for it. But it wasn't because of fans in this case.
Yes, CDPR's original vision was to create a choice-based RPG, and they had already specified it would have lots of romance choices, among other 'features' that they were clearly quite excited about. With the exception of gender being tied to voice, I saw very little evidence of them backing down or giving in to critics ('fans'). This is one of the only triple A companies I've seen stick to their stance so strongly in the face of criticism (and was one of the reasons that fans loved them so much). The real problem was that dev's creative vision of a truly memorable, quality game was cut short or watered down in favor of upper managements 'vision' of more immediate profits. Whenever monetary profits are the immediate concern, creative vision is always gonna suffer, whereas if creative vision comes first and there's an emphasis on quality, monetary profit usually flows in abundance.
In this case, CDPR are the only ones to blame for this failure - they shot themselves in the foot.
I wish i could time travel back to the 80's 90's with out all those screaming easy offended lill groups that cry about everything and trying to push there opinion thru every body's throat.
Its a game ffs...
Social media should be forbidden imho.
And this would be perfectly fine if like "in real life too" CP2077 had 7 billion fully developed NPCs all with their own personalities, stories, all with their own quest lines and content to go along with those preferences that lock out the PC based on gender and sexuality.
Sadly however this is just a video game with limited resources and a finite amount of content. When you have literally less than a handful of options you aren't serving some higher artistic calling, you are just limiting the player's choices.
Gotta agree with everyone who's saying it's not necessary to include more service. The side stories in this game are great, imho, largely because they don't feel forced. You don't have to romance anyone, and anybody whose ever been rejected knows that not everyone is gonna be into you. For me, being rejected by someone who isn't into you is a lot more relatable and realistic than if they were to go along with it because you want them to. You can't have realistic characters if they don't behave in a realistic way. In the real world, there are a lot of straight people.
Furthermore I really like how they handled Claire. She didn't have an elaborate arc about finding herself, discovering she was a woman and making the change, because she's several years beyond that stage. You only know about her past through a tiny snippet of dialogue, because in this universe body modification is a commonplace thing.
Creating deep characters doesn't mean catering to any denomination, and I'd rather have good characters than a game that stretches itself in a thousand directions to please people. We have enough of those.
Gotta agree with everyone who's saying it's not necessary to include more service. The side stories in this game are great, imho, largely because they don't feel forced. You don't have to romance anyone, and anybody whose ever been rejected knows that not everyone is gonna be into you. For me, being rejected by someone who isn't into you is a lot more relatable and realistic than if they were to go along with it because you want them to. You can't have realistic characters if they don't behave in a realistic way. In the real world, there are a lot of straight people.
Furthermore I really like how they handled Claire. She didn't have an elaborate arc about finding herself, discovering she was a woman and making the change, because she's several years beyond that stage. You only know about her past through a tiny snippet of dialogue, because in this universe body modification is a commonplace thing.
Creating deep characters doesn't mean catering to any denomination, and I'd rather have good characters than a game that stretches itself in a thousand directions to please people. We have enough of those.
Seems like only people who want to get offended, get offended. After all it's just a game and a game does not have to include characters of all types or sexualities. If this kills the fun for you, I feel sorry for you, because of everything you can see in this game, you choose to get offended about the absence of gay or lesbian romances.
Heh. I'd rather have two good gay characters that offer me a choice between the two. With a city that big and V being as spunky and interesting as she/he is (or is meant to be), you can't tell me there's only gonna be one dude/gal who wants into her/his life or pants.
Seems like only people who want to get offended, get offended. After all it's just a game and a game does not have to include characters of all types or sexualities. If this kills the fun for you, I feel sorry for you, because of everything you can see in this game, you choose to get offended about the absence of gay or lesbian romances.
I am not offended personally. I'm dissapointed. I feel like it would have almost been better to not hav a gay male love interest, than to have a half arsed one like Kerry. Not everyone is into 80+ years old dudes you know without a personality.
Heh. I'd rather have two good gay characters that offer me a choice between the two. With a city that big and V being as spunky and interesting as she/he is (or is meant to be), you can't tell me there's only gonna be one dude/gal who wants into her/his life or pants.
Ya I kind of agree. I wish I could have told River, "Sorry man I am already seeing someone." Instead of just seemingly rejecting him for no reason. Though there is nothing wrong with rejecting him for no reason either but having both options when you are already in a relationship would be nice.
Hear hear, there's nothing more frustrating to not say you're already in a relationship. Makes no sense especially for my V who just U-hauled with Judy and I don't even have the choice to say "I already have a special someone". It's pretty simple, truly.
You kinda can say this to Panam but even so V doesn't say she's in a relationship, she just says "kind of", like???? Whaaat. She seems unsure of the relationship, whereas in phone messages she calls Judy her girl. The writing is a mess.
Mindblowing that they couldn't add such a basic thing like this one.
Characters shouldn't be made to be straight, gay, etc. depending on if the player chose to play as a male or female - that's unrealistic. However, I have to admit I felt cheated when I couldn't romance Judy. The game made it feel like male V had a chance with her all the way up to the last chapter of her side-story. Was kind of insulting, to be honest, because even after she finally says she's not into men, the game still gives you a couple more chances to shoot your shot, only for her to mock you for it while strutting around in sexy outfits. If I knew she wasn't a romantic option, I probably would've told her to kick rocks when she kept calling me to help solve her issues, like I was her boyfriend.
Characters shouldn't be made to be straight, gay, etc. depending on if the player chose to play as a male or female - that's unrealistic. However, I have to admit I felt cheated when I couldn't romance Judy. The game made it feel like male V had a chance with her all the way up to the last chapter of her side-story. Was kind of insulting, to be honest, because even after she finally says she's not into men, the game still gives you a couple more chances to shoot your shot, only for her to mock you for it while strutting around in sexy outfits. If I knew she wasn't a romantic option, I probably would've told her to kick rocks when she kept calling me to help solve her issues, like I was her boyfriend.
Characters shouldn't be made to be straight, gay, etc. depending on if the player chose to play as a male or female - that's unrealistic. However, I have to admit I felt cheated when I couldn't romance Judy. The game made it feel like male V had a chance with her all the way up to the last chapter of her side-story. Was kind of insulting, to be honest, because even after she finally says she's not into men, the game still gives you a couple more chances to shoot your shot, only for her to mock you for it while strutting around in sexy outfits. If I knew she wasn't a romantic option, I probably would've told her to kick rocks when she kept calling me to help solve her issues, like I was her boyfriend.
You seriously delude yourself. It's mentioned time and again that Judy is only into women, from the very start. Hell, she even says to male V "You're not my type" and you still think you have a chance? What, thought that Judy played hard to get? My god. Another straight guy that is pissed, because Judy is a lesbian and suddenly "everything should be playersexual", because he doesn't get to fuck one character.
