Romances are obviously designed by developers' prejudices and stereotypes!

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It's Cyberpunk. I never expected a happy ending. That's why the game ends the way it ends. There's outs they could do to fix things. If they want to make a future DLC or game. With your example. I did do the Panam ending as my first ending. That ending would work. What needs to be changed is Saul. If you choose to pick X Romance to join. Saul is ommited from the final section. He dies. So have him killed off screen. And weather your romance character is equip or not, avoids/dies to Smasher. I wanted River with me during the last mission. And I was like: I do a crap phone call to him? Than went: "Wow, I'm not gonna romance anymore."
Sure there should be a choice to have your romance partner help you if you want. Not sure why anyone would want to put their love interest in harms way but maybe them offering you their help would be better than nothing.
 
Sure there should be a choice to have your romance partner help you if you want. Not sure why anyone would want to put their love interest in harms way but maybe them offering you their help would be better than nothing.
Because everyone you can romance. Has done crazy crap before. Kerry blows a car up. Points a gun at those girls. River is a cop. Judy was with you during EVE's missions. Panam is with you because she's apart of the gang. So everyone has already done crazy crap. So being apart of the last mission would make sense. Why would you fall in love with V. Who is dying. Who is borderline a criminal. And be like: NAH, you're life is crazy starting now. Them saying yes or no. And needing to go deep into the relationship to make them join. Adds more layers to a romance that means basically nothing right now. They could even make it a dialog game. Where you want to talk your romance out of it.

There's so many others options they could have done. I want the Animal's to be used. Sasquatch, who you don't kill in the boss fight could have been a romance option. And a full side story, like Panam. She wants revenge from beating her. But you sparing her forces you to do missions. Til you become friends or lovers. I would damn well want anyone from the animals to be apart of the final mission. Or say Placide. If you could romanced him. The Voodoo Boys would help along side you, during the final mission. Opening up an extra alternate path to Mikoshi. I'm just thinking of things from the top of my head. That have no resolution. This was the potential the story could of had. But they chose to ignore all these extra ending ideas.
 
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Tbh the romances aint much, if anything, anyhow

Before anyone gets there knickers in a twist or starts waving there handbags lemme explain.

Lets take Male V and Female V and Judy, you want to know the difference between a romanced and non romanced? Absolutely nothing apart from a sex scene

Again with Panam the difference is zero apart from a scene.

Take that scene out and absolutely nothing changes, no dialogue, nothing, theres more interaction with a joy toy

Its not to say i dont like whats there, the characters interact and are voice acted greatly i just dont kid myself that any effort at all went into the "romance" side of things outside a sex scene
 
Except in the one area that would make sense. Your lover would be apart of the FINAL mission. Weather they die or not is not important. The choice to have them join or not, is. And they didn't give it. It looks really dumb when it comes towards River, the cop. As for the topic. No, these characters have their preferences. The question people should be asking. Is why we can't switch between Male and Female V whenever. In order to have the romance you want.

I don't think that it would be viable to have V's romantic interest in the final mission.

At least not with the options we're presented with.

Panam is the only one that really make sense, and that's because she is reckless and supported by the Aldecaldo's.

Rivers is a good guy, but it's just one guy. I don't think that V would consider him as an option, mainly because he has a lot to lose (family) and wouldn't be supported by the police force (which, btw, hates V - "Oh, look, gang activity? That's ok, just kids messing around. My main goal is to kill that fool that's staring at us for 5 seconds straight, that perilous bandit, V.")

Judy and Kerry doesn't have any support and they're artists, not mercenaries, so it wouldn't make sense for V to ask anything dangerous from them.

If Meredith was developed enough or if the game had other love interests, then it would make sense to have them as potential last assault partners, and it would be cool.

But, if the player had the chance to call them to go in the final mission, and if there was a real chance of them dying it would be a "brilliant disaster".

A disaster because a lot of players would lose it. "How dare you kill my precious Judy/Panam/Kerry/Rivers, CDPR? I hate you forever!"

At the same time brilliant because the life and death of them would be on player hands.
 
I mean in all honesty, the real issue is just the incredibly low amount of romance options.
You got 4, a maximum of 2 per playthrough. If you use a fem voice on male body or male voice on fem body, you reduce this to 1 per playthrough.
(River wards on fem body, Panam on male body)
So if you only have so few, giving the characters predefined sexualities, all of them being either exclusively straight or exclusively gay, seems to be a weird writing choice.

But what I have to say, what bugged me personally was the way the dialogue railroads your backstory in certain romances.
Like take River, I tell him "My previous relationships were all disasters" and then the game forces me to tell him of three previous boyfriends. No option to tell him about a girlfriend, no option to say nothing. No, I HAVE to talk about 3 previous boyfriends.
Judy on the other hand is super non-commital in all of that, no backstory you can share of previous girlfriends. And that feels really weird, actively playing a bisexual character and being railroaded into "Yea all may boyfriends were bad".

So yea, I have to agree that the romances are awkward. But on the other hand, I also appreciate the nihilism, in this. There just isnt someone for everybody. And you may just not be able to find your one true love in this city.
I mean after all, every romance only has one ending, where you can stay with them anyways.

PS: When I first met River Ward, I was 100% certain the guy was gay. I was quite surprised to see he wasnt.
I mean, you can make the point, that most characters in this world are so eccentric, they would fit a gay stereotype. I mean, if River was gay, I would've thought it was a stereotype.
 
I mean, I just can't believe that at the end of 2020 we need to go through this topic?
Why gay male character can't romance River Ward for example?
Is that because he is a "macho" character who doesn't "look gay"?
Why gay players can only romance character which is designed by 100% gay stereotypes?
Seriously? I personally know two very tough and macho real life gay police officers who are married to each other!
Do developers know anything about REAL LIFE?

Also, why straight male characters can only romance Panam? Because developers have a taste for "bad, hot girls" from the bad lands.... ?
What about different female personalities and characters?

Actually, this small detail like romance options is telling us very much about developers' mental structure, stereotypes and prejudices.

It kinda kills the fun.........
Tell us something we don't know op. I too share this same bitterness since Alistair and Cullen. Why do we gay gamer not get romance options who are wholesome, chivalrous and more masculine? Why can't we romance the warrior/knight type characters? And I suspect that whoever write these romances don't ever get a clue about gay couple in real life. You can find a lot of gay couple on Instagram who are buffed, masculine and "macho" married to each other. You can also find gay people who literally share the same traits as Cullen's and River's in real life but we don't seem to get to romance them in games. My personal opinion is... the ones who write romances for gay people like us have no clue at all what we want and just throw whatever they hear or "research" from the internet.

So, whenever a game with gay romance is announced... or released... I always get this bitter feeling like... "sigh, here we go again..." :facepalm: :shrug:
 
So NO ONE is the answer?
God damn guys and gals. If you wanted a dating simulator there is plenty to choose from. Again as I said u would not be intrested in your crush if (s)he had different genitals. If someone is gonna s*it about not understanding BI people go play dating sims. There is plenty for you snowflakes
 
It is very intriguing to see people here trying to justify what is already in our world something questionable (the stereotypes and lack of variety of romance options) through the lenses of 2020 earth, when 2077 NC is clearly depicted as a way more sexually liberal and diverse place. If we take that into account, there should be non binary people, bi people, poly relationships and so on...

For a game that tries to add immersion and depth to the environment the player is inserted, this seems rather shallow
 
It is very intriguing to see people here trying to justify what is already in our world something questionable (the stereotypes and lack of variety of romance options) through the lenses of 2020 earth, when 2077 NC is clearly depicted as a way more sexually liberal and diverse place. If we take that into account, there should be no binary people, bi people, poly relationships and so on...
Its a video game dude not life simulator 2.0. This world(in game) is imagination
 
God damn guys and gals. If you wanted a dating simulator there is plenty to choose from. Again as I said u would not be intrested in your crush if (s)he had different genitals. If someone is gonna s*it about not understanding BI people go play dating sims. There is plenty for you snowflakes

TF this has to do with anything? I could just as easily say "If you want a mindless open world shooter, go play GTA"
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Its a video game dude not life simulator 2.0. This world(in game) is imagination
Again, a pointless comment. What about the imaginary nature has to do with anything? You seem to be missing the point of the conversation
 
A disaster because a lot of players would lose it. "How dare you kill my precious Judy/Panam/Kerry/Rivers, CDPR? I hate you forever!"
No. You got them killed. Because your choice of adding them. That's the point, risk. And with my view on the characters. All the people we did stuff with would fit and could do it. Judy of all during the ALT stuff. V as a character is not special either. Your gear and resolve make you go through this crap. Judy and River would be in the Street Kid life path. Kerry, if you don't buy that he would go with you. He could give you loads of money to buy a ton of crap for the mission. So can the other characters. Especially if we could upgrade the romance characters along the way in the story. The point is options and extra emotional moments for the final mission.

But what I have to say, what bugged me personally was the way the dialogue railroads your backstory in certain romances.
Like take River, I tell him "My previous relationships were all disasters" and then the game forces me to tell him of three previous boyfriends. No option to tell him about a girlfriend, no option to say nothing. No, I HAVE to talk about 3 previous boyfriends.
So basically the issue is that you want your V to be Bi? Not answering would have to add in dialog of V never having a lover. Unless you mean you want to hide your past relaishionships. Which would make River more off standing to you. And would be a risk of failing the romance. Which would be a nice addtion. But they didn't even add in. I'm not interested in you. Because I already have someone. So cheating is allowed all the time technically.
 
Tell us something we don't know op. I too share this same bitterness since Alistair and Cullen. Why do we gay gamer not get romance options who are wholesome, chivalrous and more masculine?
Because, and that might be hard to take now, nobody cares about what you actually want! You, "gay gamers", just as we "straight gamers", are marketing demographics, nothing more, and just as you are baited with "gay romance", we have been baited with "t*ts and a**" for decades. That has nothing to do with inclusion, there is nothing "progressive" about it, all that is is pandering. It's consumerism... good, old capitalism.
You aren't special, we aren't special, and in the end, companies will make exactly the product their focus groups and sales consultants tell them to make... biggest mass appeal, least resistance from foreign markets, etc. etc. etc. We, the customers, are only important as long as this thing is marketed to us, and as soon they have our attention (and thus money), we usually can go die in ditch, for all they care, and the only reason "you" aren't used to that yet is, because "your demographic" is a relatively "new" one... lucky you. :rolleyes:

Ok, had to get that off my chest... thanks for reading.
 
I mean, I just can't believe that at the end of 2020 we need to go through this topic?
Why gay male character can't romance River Ward for example?
Is that because he is a "macho" character who doesn't "look gay"?
Why gay players can only romance character which is designed by 100% gay stereotypes?
Someone may have already mentioned this, but I'll say it anyway.

Gay characters can't romance River for the same reason that straight male's can't romance Judy - because it's not his sexual orientation. Unfortunately CDPR just got lazy with the dialogue and copy and pasted the same lines both for those who could romance and those who couldn't romance the characters, giving those who couldn't romance false hope up until that hope was crushed.

Also, Kerry is not gay. Kerry Eurodyne, like Johnny Silverhand, was created by Mike Pondsmith back in the 80s, and was (and is still) bisexual. It just so happens that Kerry had some unresolved sexual feelings towards Johnny, and because Johnny is in V's head, and male V has the right 'tools' for Kerry to live out his fantasy, the setup works for him. This was confirmed in a recent tweet by R. Talsorian. So Kerry's not really a gay stereotype. I wasn't really happy to hear about Kerry's agenda, because I felt it was unfair towards gay players to pose that as a 'romance' (not to mention many consider it bi erasure to ignore his sexuality in the game), but ehh, that's what we got.

All that being said, I really do which we had some actual choice for romances to cater towards individual tastes, and hope they'll add more in future content. It shouldn't be a case of 'choose this character or be alone'.
 
So basically the issue is that you want your V to be Bi? Not answering would have to add in dialog of V never having a lover. Unless you mean you want to hide your past relaishionships. Which would make River more off standing to you. And would be a risk of failing the romance. Which would be a nice addtion. But they didn't even add in. I'm not interested in you. Because I already have someone. So cheating is allowed all the time technically.

Yea, that is kinda what I mean, like, why can I not tell him of a previous girlfriend, see how he reacts to that. Or why can I not hide my past endeavors. Or well just be able to decide how much to tell him, why do I HAVE to tell him of three boyfriends? Wouldnt one be enough? two?
I mean I was actively playing my char as Bi, romancing both River and Judy... but I cant tell him of a previous girlfriend? seemed really off to me.
 
Maybe fewer devs would be skittish about representation if they didn't EVERY FREAKING TIME get a brutal thrashing (some carrying a grudge for years, never giving it a rest) for allegedly getting it 'wrong'...
If they care enough... usually don't... sometimes not even if they are gay themselves, believe me. :rolleyes:
 
Maybe fewer devs would be skittish about representation if they didn't EVERY FREAKING TIME get a brutal thrashing (some carrying a grudge for years, never giving it a rest) for allegedly getting it 'wrong'...
Oh I agree, and there will always be criticism no matter what they do, but the worst possible thing you can do when you're setting your game in a society that is so desensitized to sex, is to give so little representation of the spectrum of sex that it feels completely unnatural in the given setting, and is all the more apparent for it.

I mean, there's a pretty good chance that more sexual content existed before they cut chunks of the game out too, so maybe we'll see more diversity of representation in future.

EDIT: And it could be that the writers didn't feel comfortable writing on behalf of sexual 'identities' or 'scenarios' that they didn't fully comprehend or feel they could do justice to, as well. But who knows. The whole thing would probably end up being a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.
 
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