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Romances: Disparity in quality and quantity

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Yllana_Ardais

Yllana_Ardais

Senior user
#781
oh, it's let's bash Bioware season again? I'd take any Bioware romance over what I got served in CP2077. They may have been getting a bit formulaic, but I did not feel disrespected for simply wanting to romance male characters in the last Bioware games. Kerry and River might be interesting as characters, but their romances just simply suck.
 
VdaNetrunner

VdaNetrunner

Forum regular
#782
Yllana_Ardais said:
oh, it's let's bash Bioware season again? I'd take any Bioware romance over what I got served in CP2077. They may have been getting a bit formulaic, but I did not feel disrespected for simply wanting to romance male characters in the last Bioware games. Kerry and River might be interesting as characters, but their romances just simply suck.
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I like both games for different reasons. But I like the romance in CP2077. But I get where your coming from at the same time it’s different games.
 
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LadyMiseryAli

LadyMiseryAli

Senior user
#783
Yllana_Ardais said:
oh, it's let's bash Bioware season again? I'd take any Bioware romance over what I got served in CP2077. They may have been getting a bit formulaic, but I did not feel disrespected for simply wanting to romance male characters in the last Bioware games. Kerry and River might be interesting as characters, but their romances just simply suck.
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I come from the Bioware side. Not in the fandom anymore because their toxicity and hypocrisy and mean-girl BS is just a big turn-off, but I am still looking forward to DA4 and ME5. I do like the pace of the Bioware romances. With Cyberpunk, things progressed way too quickly. I liked the option to just kiss your LI in Inquisition whenever you felt like it and the ability to talk to them after some quests and they would actually offer insight. You definitely didn't get that in Cyberpunk, which kind of sucked. Kerry and River were both shafted in terms of content. Panam and Judy were given the majority of the attention, so it's not that their romances sucked, but that their romances were given little to nothing to go on when both should have gotten way more. In Bioware, the romances were equally distributed for the most part, which is another thing I liked. So not really bashing on my end. The romance scenes in Cyberpunk are a bit more unique though, bolder and Kerry is treated like a normal person, as in his male-leaning bisexuality is just one part of him and isn't something that has to be pointed out every five seconds, which is something I really liked in terms of his representation.
 
The_Blacks

The_Blacks

Forum regular
#784
LadyMiseryAli said:
The romance scenes in Cyberpunk are a bit more unique though, bolder and Kerry is treated like a normal person, as in his male-leaning bisexuality is just one part of him and isn't something that has to be pointed out every five seconds, which is something I really liked in terms of his representation.
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One of the reasons why IMO CDPR's take is the better one
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#785
The only comparison I can draw from a personal experience is Dragon Age series because I didn't romance anyone in ME trilogy. I've heard numerous times people saying that Solas's romance, for example, has the least amount of content but from all the videos of it on youtube it doesn't feel like that at all, because the groundwork and all the important scenes are there.

I can't say the same about Kerry's and from what I recall of River's romances. Kerry for example, has enough quests to start laying that groundwork but it's not there. At all. V can't flirt with Kerry while the game keeps throwing flirt option after flirt option at you for Panam. I haven't encountered anything of sorts in any of the Dragon Age games.

When V finally has an option to express interest in Kerrry is at his second-to-last quest. Which would still be fine, but as I mentioned before, V's sudden interest completely vanishes during Kerry's last and final quest which is after V's interest was very much reciprocated. There's nothing when Kerry calls to start Boat Drinks, nothing when V meets Kerry at the marina, nothing during the yacht ride itself until a sex scene trigger. After Kerry's questline is complete there's zero dialogue that even acknowledges Kerry and V are in a romantic relationship. Not only Kerry's romance lacks content but what's there doesn't even develop consistently.

I know I said this a million times at this point but still.

It's like romancing the mayor from The Nightmare Before Christmas. But where the mayor's head rotates from happy to anxious, in Kerry's romance it's V switching from uninterested to interested but it's mostly stuck at the former due to the lack of dialogue.
 
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Iferrebee

Iferrebee

Senior user
#786
I don't think the LI was intended to be anything other than a chapter in the story

And sadly that chapter ended so in a story based narrative why continue on with it.

CDPR wants to tell a story and i think want we want for romance options aren't part of that story
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#787
Iferrebee said:
I don't think the LI was intended to be anything other than a chapter in the story

And sadly that chapter ended so in a story based narrative why continue on with it.
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That's not what this thread is about, though.

Sure, seeing more of them in the expansion(s) would be awesome, and while I can't speak for everyone, I think the biggest concern those of us who romanced Kerry and River have is that their romances are simply not up to par with what CDPR delivered for Judy and especially Panam. What we're asking for is for CDPR to add more romance specific dialogue for Kerry and River so that their romances would be closer in quality and content to what the girls had since launch.

What Kerry and River should have also had since launch.
 
V_tron

V_tron

Fresh user
#788
_Mina said:
Intimate relationships are severely neglected here. You explained it extremely well. It's like the game is trying to fully focus V on their own demise: you'll die soon anyway, so don't even try to develop any meaningful romance.
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Intimate relationships are severely neglected here. You explained it extremely well. It's like the game is trying to fully focus V on their own demise: you'll die soon anyway, so don't even try to develop any meaningful romance

In my opinion as a gamer, and I'm still at the beginning of the game, is that the characters don't have a fateful fate. What attracted me to the game in a way was the possibility of changing the fate of the characters.
I started as a nomad and made the best game in order to fulfill the missions and protect the characters of Jackie, Judy and Evelyn. Evelyn would definitely give her a second chance, he can't even enjoy a light romance with her. And her death was sad. I hope it doesn't happen to any more of V's friends.
These 'fate' events for the characters could be more malleable, changed according to the player's performance.
Cd Project, give us more power to change this story, in a new DLC or update!
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#789
I'm slowly catching up on Pawel Sasko's streams, and it appears that he talked about romances in one of them. It's nice that he agreed that they dropped the ball with Kerry's and River's romances. If they're going to do something about it, remains to be seen.
 
K

koalahugs

Senior user
#790
One of the interesting things Pawel talked about recently was how different teams worked on different romances? I think? Hence the disparity. So now I know why Pyramid Song was so well executed - it was done by a female team. I mean I always thought it was weird that Judy's whole date basically felt superior (in that it was actually romantic and sensual) compared to Panam's when Panam is pushed as the "default". I just couldn't figure out why there was such a difference in quality.

But it makes sense knowing they literally had different teams working on each. Maybe they should've talked to each other more. I'm sure they're all taking notes from the Judy team now. Hell the whole industry should be. I generally hate sex scenes in games (hell, even in film they usually make me roll my eyes into the back of my skull), but that one actually felt sweet and like the story needed it.
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#791
koalahugs said:
One of the interesting things Pawel talked about recently was how different teams worked on different romances? I think? Hence the disparity. So now I know why Pyramid Song was so well executed - it was done by a female team. I mean I always thought it was weird that Judy's whole date basically felt superior (in that it was actually romantic and sensual) compared to Panam's when Panam is pushed as the "default". I just couldn't figure out why there was such a difference in quality.

But it makes sense knowing they literally had different teams working on each. Maybe they should've talked to each other more. I'm sure they're all taking notes from the Judy team now. Hell the whole industry should be. I generally hate sex scenes in games (hell, even in film they usually make me roll my eyes into the back of my skull), but that one actually felt sweet and like the story needed it.
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I tried all of the romances, and I really liked Judy's. I think it could have used a little bit of lowkey flirting prior Pyramid Song, just so that Johnny's comment when you're scanning around Judy's apartment would make sense, but other than that it was really really good. I was a little worried at first that her sex scene would be fetishistic, but I'm very happy to be proven wrong, because her sex scene was indeed very sweet and tender.

If Kerry's romance was done like Judy's I would have been perfectly happy, even if it would have picked up towards the end of the questline, but at least it would have flowed consistently. I don't want to make assumptions, but in a way it feels that Kerry was handed to a very good writer who didn't want to write his romance. What's there is very beautifully done. The conversation on the roof of Dark Matter and the one during the Sun ending are so good, but overall, there's a serious consistency issue due to the lack of romance dialogue that I talked about many times before and it just brings down the overall quality.

At this point, it would be enough if they added some flirty dialogue during Boat Drinks and at least one post-questline dialogue option so that the game would recognize Kerry's in a romantic relationship with V when you talk to him after his storyline is complete. The romance itself would feel consistent at the very least, and it would be enough.

But yeah, I hope that in the future they'll compare notes to make sure that all options get sufficiently developed romance arcs and don't have such a glaringly obvious romance content imbalance that they do now.
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#796
LadyMiseryAli said:
PLANNED being the key word. Plans have the ability to change.
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I feel like one expansion would be enough to fix the romance content disparity at the very least. It's not like we're asking for 20 new dialogue options for Kerry and River each, just enough to make their romances on par with what Judy and Panam always had.

CDPR are genuinely trying and working hard to make the game better. The free stuff they include in patches like multiple new apartments and an arcade game are something other companies would unashamedly attach a price tag to, but it's hard to hope that this includes improvements of substance for Kerry's and River's romances. The things they added in 1.5 are very nice, but it doesn't make their romances feel less underdeveloped when it's something as important as the buildup itself that's lacking.

I played Cyberpunk on launch, been partaking in romance related discussions probably since January on 2021. I'd really like to agree with you but after more than a year, my hope and optimism had run dry. I feel like an utter fool for having spent all this time leaving feedback that likely went unnoticed. I've been moving goalposts from one patch to another. I'm tired of hoping. Feels like I'm setting myself up for disappointment based on a sliver of hope because of how they handled Triss's romance in TW3 after that one was criticized for lack of romance content.

I know that getting voice actors back is not easy and costly so it would make sense to wait for an expansion, they did so for Triss in TW3 and released a patch that included new scenes for her a week before first expansion dropped. I've been clinging to this explanation, but I ran out of optimism to expect they'll do the same thing for Kerry and River. I don't want to quell your optimism and hope, but I've been at this too long to feel all that hopeful myself.
 
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NUSAPilgrim

NUSAPilgrim

Forum regular
#798
Soykaff said:
I feel like one expansion would be enough to fix the romance content disparity at the very least. It's not like we're asking for 20 new dialogue options for Kerry and River each, just enough to make their romances on par with what Judy and Panam always had.

CDPR are genuinely trying and working hard to make the game better. The free stuff they include in patches like multiple new apartments and an arcade game are something other companies would unashamedly attach a price tag to, but it's hard to hope that this includes improvements of substance for Kerry's and River's romances. The things they added in 1.5 are very nice, but it doesn't make their romances feel less underdeveloped when it's something as important as the buildup itself that's lacking.

I played Cyberpunk on launch, been partaking in romance related discussions probably since January on 2021. I'd really like to agree with you but after more than a year, my hope and optimism had run dry. I feel like an utter fool for having spent all this time leaving feedback that likely went unnoticed. I've been moving goalposts from one patch to another. I'm tired of hoping. Feels like I'm setting myself up for disappointment based on a sliver of hope because of how they handled Triss's romance in TW3 after that one was criticized for lack of romance content.

Edit: I know that getting voice actors back is not exactly easy and costly so it would make sense to wait for an expansion, they did so for Triss in TW3 and released a patch that included new scenes for her a week before first expansion dropped. I've been clinging to this explanation, but I ran out of optimism to expect they'll do the same thing for Kerry and River. I don't want to quell your optimism and hope, but I've been at this too long to feel all that hopeful myself.
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They spent the money to get Keanu Reeves back to voice Johnny so they aren't afraid to spend money on voice actors.
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
#799
NUSAPilgrim said:
They spent the money to get Keanu Reeves back to voice Johnny so they aren't afraid to spend money on voice actors.
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That's true, but Johnny is in V's head and his absence would be far more noticeable to everyone playing the expansion than two underdeveloped romances not getting much needed improvement after two years of criticisms.
 

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