My bad for putting you you on the same boat then. Regardless, you do you, but it is not a big deal specially since it is not a big thing, would be neat though but IMO is not as much of an issue as people have been putting it.
My bad for putting you you on the same boat then. Regardless, you do you, but it is not a big deal specially since it is not a big thing, would be neat though but IMO is not as much of an issue as people have been putting it.
That's not true, actually. You can flirt with Judy the first time you meet her, after sifting through Evelyn's braindance. Approach her with a female V and ask her if you can see her again. From what I remember, it's not an option with male V (with a male V there will be one dialogue option, but with a female V there is the second, flirty one I mentioned).
Couple it with a non-shitty ending for siding with Arasaka.
Maintenance caught me editing.
Lots of unpack here. I apologize if I offended someone. Didn't want to, truly. Sometimes is hard to word feelings and thoughts, specially in a language I'm not a native.
I like having LI with their own preferences and sexualities. Obviously, the game is limited by writers so, each sex and sexual orientation only have 1 choice, so if you don't like the LI your character can be matched, you are screwed. Not romance for you. It's not necessarily bad unless you think (like me) that romances are an important part of a roleplaying story. I've planned to do 4 runs, with different endings, romances and builds. I'm on the second now.
Judy and Panam romances were more organic for me, just because you spend more time with them and the relationship comes more naturally. My female V felt that with Panam, I felt some flirting and buddy-thing. I liked it. I appreciated Judy and I was tempted to romance her while I was playing the game, but I had decided to romance River before because he was my only option according to my character. I saw a brief guide of available romances and said to myself, really? a hyper stuffed guy? Mmm not very appealing for me at first sight. Until I got his quests and I was really fond of him. Fell in love with him. Wished to have more time and dialogue with him. Not only quest, a bit flirting, sex, two texts, nothing more.
And yeah, I've read straight guys wanting Judy, straight woman wanting Kerry, gay guys wanting River lol. The game is what is it.
Lots of unpack here. I apologize if I offended someone. Didn't want to, truly. Sometimes is hard to word feelings and thoughts, specially in a language I'm not a native.
I like having LI with their own preferences and sexualities. Obviously, the game is limited by writers so, each sex and sexual orientation only have 1 choice, so if you don't like the LI your character can be matched, you are screwed. Not romance for you. It's not necessarily bad unless you think (like me) that romances are an important part of a roleplaying story. I've planned to do 4 runs, with different endings, romances and builds. I'm on the second now.
Judy and Panam romances were more organic for me, just because you spend more time with them and the relationship comes more naturally. My female V felt that with Panam, I felt some flirting and buddy-thing. I liked it. I appreciated Judy and I was tempted to romance her while I was playing the game, but I had decided to romance River before because he was my only option according to my character. I saw a brief guide of available romances and said to myself, really? a hyper stuffed guy? Mmm not very appealing for me at first sight. Until I got his quests and I was really fond of him. Fell in love with him. Wished to have more time and dialogue with him. Not only quest, a bit flirting, sex, two texts, nothing more.
And yeah, I've read straight guys wanting Judy, straight woman wanting Kerry, gay guys wanting River lol. The game is what is it.
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Not being a big deal to you doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to someone else. This is what people mean when they say their opinions are being dismissed.
I'll just point out the obvious that the development of the romances seems to be in line with player breakdown.
Conventional wisdom would go as follows:
First priority to the straight males, as they are the bulk of the AAA action-adventure audience.
Second goes to the lesbians, as this also gets played by a lot of the straight males.
Then you toss a bone to the straight females, and maybe the gay males.
I can understand why people not in groups one and two can get tired of always getting served scraps.
My apologies if my comments came off as me acting like my opinions are cold hard facts and that your opinions are invalid. This is a forum and we're all merely expressing opinions here. The thing is, the opinion some of us in this thread share can also be observed in other spaces online. More people have noticed and are in agreement that male LIs have less romance related content and if you were to write down romance related dialogue lines V has with each romance option that difference becomes clear and I believe that these things add validity to our criticisms. None of this invalidates your opinions but it doesn't make us wrong either.
As @SirKraeutereule said what we're asking for is to have equal amount of romance related optional dialogue for Kerry and River. At the end of the day romance is optional content, you are not forced to engage with it. Did you try to kiss Kerry, did you make a move on Panam just because those lines were there? Why do you feel that us wanting the same amount of romance related optional content that Panam has is somehow making you endure anything?
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Took me a while to do all this but I tried Panam's romance and recorded each romantic interaction, then did the same with Kerry. Here's some evidence showcasing content disparity between these two particular romances. I didn't play as female V so I have nothing for Judy and River but I think Kerry's clips are proof enough. These videos don't include sex scenes or rooftop phone calls.
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river and Judy are closer to Kerry if you are only counting romantic, though, some of your panam stuff, I'm not sure if its romantic or available to both genders, even with no romance, like the bunking together, and some other declarations, To female V, panam is still a super close friend she is willing to fight for. I think they snuggle even after panam makes it clear there is no reflationship
the biggest difference is. panam is the only character who takes it slow. Judy is around longer, but isn't directly romantic until the same mission where you get with her. River, I forget if there is innuendo possible, but if so, its like a line here and there, mostly it happens in the last mission.
To contribute, I started the game up for the first time in forever and went to see what River had to offer.
During “I Fought the Law” you can jokingly suggest getting a beer after solving crimes. That’s it, but fine, you just met the guy.
Nothing during “The Hunt” but that’s to be expected since the whole mission is about dead or dying children.
During the phone call that starts “Following the River” there’s the infamous “I miss you” line, and you can say I missed you too.
Potentially romantic lines during the build up in “Following the River” are:
-Cooking banter, it’s a stretch but I’ll count it because it’s kinda cute
-Joss says River can’t stop gushing/saying he likes V at the table
-The kids and their vote
-Romantic stroll/Not gonna pick you flowers
Then you’re in the actual romance scene.
Nothing during “The Hunt” but that’s to be expected since the whole mission is about dead or dying children.
During the phone call that starts “Following the River” there’s the infamous “I miss you” line, and you can say I missed you too.
Potentially romantic lines during the build up in “Following the River” are:
-Cooking banter, it’s a stretch but I’ll count it because it’s kinda cute
-Joss says River can’t stop gushing/saying he likes V at the table
-The kids and their vote
-Romantic stroll/Not gonna pick you flowers
Then you’re in the actual romance scene.
After that you have access to the Blair Witch children experience, phone calls where he hangs up on you immediately or doesn’t answer, and one extra bit of dialogue when you go to visit him where he lives on the stairs. It’s horrible extra dialogue for a love interest, probably a strong contender for the worst of the four but I’m not sure what the others are.
V says “I keep thinking... about us” and River responds “That you don’t see a happy ending?”
So, V says “never mind I’m being stupid.”
And then they drop it. Adorable. Or horrible. Probably more horrible.
Wait... The "I miss you" line comes BEFORE you even get to a romantic point? Was that intentional because it seems a little bit misplaced considering what you went through just before that lol. And after reading what you wrote I can understand players that play a lesbian V or a female V in general who is not interested in him. I was already weird out by Panam's "aunt" so I don't even wanna imagine if you have to sit through something like that with his whole family and can't escape. And I agree with you on the horrible part. If they wanted to go for V being shy they should have worded it better. Poor River...
What he got was well done but something is really missing before all that. Thank you for doing that, interesting to see how big the differences really are... at least he got really adorable messages afterwards - something that they apparently missed for River. What I also missed was a comment from Johnny and a talk about Kerry's ex-wife and his children. And yes, I know that both things exist but why did they cut them out? Too bad.
Nothing during “The Hunt” apart from Johnny's remark that River probably wants to go into V's pants (female V, if you go through the front door after looking for the BD). . .
And you don't even have the option to tell Johnny that V is not interested in him... even the first line where V says he's just a good friend doesn't help much.
The whole River thing is just weird if you play a V who's not interested in him or even worse, a lesbian V because you can't even avoid mentioning dudes in the past. I wish there were options to say you had women in the past instead of dudes. It kinda ruins the immersion.
Off-topic but the whole Hunt quest made me laugh. When River drove with V in the trailer park, he killed with the car one of the women standing on the road (with the cracking sound and all screams) near the clothing shop. When driving to the farm he hit 2 times a car and the "?..." coming from the other car was really funny. So much about the immersionAnd you don't even have the option to tell Johnny that V is not interested in him... even the first line where V says he's just a good friend doesn't help much.
Anyway, it will be nice if they manage to fix the broken stuff because the game is a potential masterpiece, at least for me.Yeaaahhh... this is the first flirt and it starts the final quest. There's nothing at all before that unless you count Johnny's comment. It was all very sudden and jarring.
Am I the only one that tried to break out of the conversation with Joss at the table during The Hunt? It seemed like such a natural place for a conversation with River since it is the first and only pause in The Hunt investigation. But as soon as you get up from the table it cuts forward to the next morning. I reloaded and tried not sitting down but attempting to walk out of the front door does the same thing lol.
The Hunt was an awesome quest, but as a player as I was totally focused on the investigation so it didn't really work as a starting point of a romance quest. The in-depth character conversation was given to Joss, not River.
I included those lines because Panam's response is different if you're trying to romance her. For example, if you pick the "I'm worried things will change between us" line after the relic malfunction, Panam's response is different to V who's just a friend. Same with Kerry and "I'm glad we get this moment to ourselves." It's available to female V as well but his reply is different to her.
I think the reason you see it as Panam taking things slow (and I don't disagree) is because she and V have flirty dialogue throughout her questline, while others don't. If they had something it could also be seen as all of them taking things slow.
Thank you for sharing! And oof poor River. That's so little dialogue.
While I don't understand why they cut the one with the ex-wife, I personally prefer that they cut the one with Johnny about the relationship. He is either dismissive or makes it about himself. I'm fine with there being nothing in this case if an alternative is that.
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I think the reason I didn’t count that is because it was so random and out of nowhere it came off less like a “aw I think River likes V” and more like “the devs needed to put a big flashing sign over this character to let players know he’s a romance option for female Vs or they’re gonna be completely, 100% blindsided after this mission.” Then they went and did it anyway lol I get Johnny did it with Judy too, but in that case it felt like it added to V’s feelings rather than it being a random accusation of some guy you’re in the middle of a really heavy mission with. Read the room Johnny, ya jerk.
Yeah
It’s very in-your-face and I completely get why people are made uncomfortable by him. It was a case of him being so horribly underdeveloped that it’s just the absolute worst for everyone involved. Maybe the “miss you” line would make sense if they had given an option for a comforting hug at the end of The Hunt, not necessarily romantic but at least establishing a closer friendship? I did exactly the same last night, he walks out the door and you can see him stop so I was like “oh, this must be what I missed in my last playthrough, there must be a talk on the porch.” Then the time skip and you’re off.
Well, all I can say is that I enjoyed more my time with Takemura, even without the option to have him as LI. He never fails to surprise. I was just jumping around and he said: "I can wait, it is not me who is dying" and "DO you have what they call ADD?". That is what makes a game alive
He should have been an option, honestly. I cared more about him than anyone in the game lol Devil ending is my secret fave just for him.Well, all I can say is that I enjoyed more my time with Takemura, even without the option to have him as LI. He never fails to surprise. I was just jumping around and he said: "I can wait, it is not me who is dying" and "DO you have what they call ADD?". That is what makes a game alive
River was an awesome character and the way they handled him made him horribly uncomfortable, I really feel bad for people that went through that water tower scene without the intention of or ability to romance him. Put in that situation irl, I’d feel so awkward I’d be judging if a fall from the tower would kill me and if it was worth it.
RIver is a good guy and my V would love to help him solve other cases like "The hunt" , but that is all
There are other people who really enjoy the "Stir, stir " jambalaya dinner and all the rest. I guess it is all about personal taste.