Running a low level street scum campaign

[TraderVic]

Running a low level street scum campaign

Okay here's the deal. So I'm planning on getting back to running a CP2020 game after probably over 10-year-hiatus.

Background: I used to run games with the system back in the day, but our games always tended to become super-solo team power gaming with the focus on combat with FN-RALs and full body armor on every player because everyone maxed out their Role Skill and money. It was fun, but it was also very one sided, basically all obstacles were cleared with full-auto fire. Yeah, we were young.

Now, when I'm older and wiser, I want to run a low power-level campaign for my players, which in my opinion reflects the Cyberpunk setting better and also gives the players greater sense of achievement and progress when they succeed in something. I was thinking about limiting the Role skill level to 1-5 so that would mean the minimum amount of money to start with. I want the players to be excited when they get their hands on an old Uzi. Should there be limits on other skills as well, like maybe 7/10 at start?

Any advice from you vets for running a gutter trash game? What to keep in mind when planning combat scenarios etc.? Obviously the game should have some combat, but I want to balance it so that a 9mm round is something to fear, rather than to laugh at.

Also, advice on some good house rules would be appreciated. I like the CP system, it's pretty simple and fast (and deadly, which is good), but I seem to recall that there were some rules that required tweaking (full-auto fire was A LOT of dice rolling).

So, talk to me. How do you run a low level Cyberpunk game?

 

[wisdom000]

Okay here's the deal. So I'm planning on getting back to running a CP2020 game after probably over 10-year-hiatus.

Background: I used to run games with the system back in the day, but our games always tended to become super-solo team power gaming with the focus on combat with FN-RALs and full body armor on every player because everyone maxed out their Role Skill and money. It was fun, but it was also very one sided, basically all obstacles were cleared with full-auto fire. Yeah, we were young.

Now, when I'm older and wiser, I want to run a low power-level campaign for my players, which in my opinion reflects the Cyberpunk setting better and also gives the players greater sense of achievement and progress when they succeed in something. I was thinking about limiting the Role skill level to 1-5 so that would mean the minimum amount of money to start with. I want the players to be excited when they get their hands on an old Uzi. Should there be limits on other skills as well, like maybe 7/10 at start?

Any advice from you vets for running a gutter trash game? What to keep in mind when planning combat scenarios etc.? Obviously the game should have some combat, but I want to balance it so that a 9mm round is something to fear, rather than to laugh at.

So, talk to me. How do you run a low level Cyberpunk game?

For several years now, I have had the house rule of starting characters get a max rank of 6 to all skills except Language, which they get at 7 for free. I also limit their special abilities to 5 points, and do not allow players to use general IP to raise special ability scores.

I also make it clear that the enemies in the game will generally react to at the players level of weapons and armor. If they want to keep things simple and realistic, no more armor than a vest and guns remain in the low damage ranges. If they get skinweave and try to wear metal gear all day, while toting around guns that never drop below 6d6 in damage, their enemies will come at them with electrothermally enhanced anti-matter rifles.

Seriously, as long as the enemies are carrying pretty light arms, and little to no armor, the players tend to reign themselves in. If they are getting kills with 9mm handguns, they are generally pretty satisfied and don;t escalate.

Also, you have to engage them with more than combat.

 

[TraderVic]

Thanks for the speedy reply, Wisdom.

Yeah, I plan to encourage roleplay and using plenty of non-combat skills to achieve goals, depending on what kind of characters the players want to make. Maybe I'll allow only one Role each to prevent the Solo army from happening again.

How do you handle starting attributes in your games Wisdom? A standard score package for everyone or random rolling? I quite like the random rolling idea to give diversity to the group.

How about the starting skill points? Back in the day players naturally maxed Int and Ref to get the 20 extra skill points, so that meant of team of genius level Solos. Maybe I'll just give them all the 20 points to assign to non-role skills.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

With regards to the power of gear players obtain, availability, price and legality can be major obstacles if you need them to be.

Of your players keep using full auto fire, put an APB on them and let C-SWAT have a crack at them, forcing them to keep finding new identities. Limiting their ammo supply can work too.

Special Abilities could require 'maintainance' after level 6, forcing players to keep up with personal tasks to keep the ability at the inflated level. (Wildside has a great description and mechanism for this.)

And good luck. I'm in a similar situation, though it is a lot of fun being back on the saddle.

 

[wisdom000]

Thanks for the speedy reply, Wisdom.

Yeah, I plan to encourage roleplay and using plenty of non-combat skills to achieve goals, depending on what kind of characters the players want to make. Maybe I'll allow only one Role each to prevent the Solo army from happening again.

How do you handle starting attributes in your games Wisdom? A standard score package for everyone or random rolling? I quite like the random rolling idea to give diversity to the group.

How about the starting skill points? Back in the day players naturally maxed Int and Ref to get the 20 extra skill points, so that meant of team of genius level Solos. Maybe I'll just give them all the 20 points to assign to non-role skills.

Well, to be honest, without sounding like I am plugging again, I use Interlock Unlimited to run Cyberpunk. But even before that I allowed multiple roles, with the stipulation that one must be chosen as primary, and the primary must always be one point higher than all others. How this benefits you, is that in keeping with the "only 5 points to special abilities" limit, if a character takes multiple special abilities to start, they will all be low. And since under IU (which also reworks what special abilities do) players can't spend general IP on Spacial Abilities, which can only be raised by GM specific allotment from play. it balances everything out.

Or you could go the other route and ditch roles altogether, as the problem with most roles in CP 2020 is the effects of the special abilities are abstract concepts that aren't really explained in a practical sense, which is why I reworked them all with IU.

I have no problem with everyone being a solo... in fact, it is my belief that characters who find themselves in combat often should recieve combat sense anyway..

I used to make every one roll... but that led to some pretty wild disparity. We tried various fixes, but then settled on a point pool. More recently we are trying out a point pool for every stat but Luck, which is rolled after.

Starting Skill points are equal to the Stat point total, we throw out the idea of career and non-role skills, and just let players assign skill where they like.

 

[TraderVic]

I have to give this Interlock Unlimited a look for ideas. It's made by you Wisdom, correct?

I want to prevent min-maxing at character creation for stats, so my first thought was to have everyone roll the number of stats and then assign the scores as they are to the stats how they want and allow a re-roll if they roll really poorly (every score under 5 for example).

Edit: Like the "Fast" option in the main book.

 

[guidokpd]

The first thing I would do is explain the concept of the game to your players. Perhaps even do a write up and hand it out so it is documented and the players can not say "I didn't know that."

Is this an established group?

I would defiantly limit the skill level. All of them, not just the SA. Also make them justify the skills they have. How would a low level street person get combat sense?

Assign starting cash rather than rather than having it depend on SA.

I do not like using rolls for stats. Point buy lets the players start even. If they screw up the stats it is on them, not just that they rolled badly. Also use the UI rule that any stat of 3 or less is disabled. I once had a player try to put 1 in attractiveness. He Changed his mind when I told him that a 1 meant he had a hump, a club foot, and a malformed face.

Start them off with less points for stats. Make 9s and 10s in stats cost more. In my game a 9 in a stat or skill costs 10 points. A 10 costs 13 points.

Players will try to get away with whatever they can. Above all say no. If something doesn't fit tell them.

 

[TraderVic]

Well, I'm planning to run the game for guys I've been friends with for years, some are people who I played with back in the day, so it's easy to talk to them about my ideas. In fact, I told one of them that I wanted to run a game again and told him I want to keep it a low level campaign and he seemed to get my idea and like it. Like I said, it should go better now that we're about 30 than back in the day, when we were 16.

Good point about making the top stats cost more Character Points, I have to think about that.

 

[Sardukhar]

Limit Special Abilities but allow more than one. I allow a combined total of 5 or 6 and either have the second one half of the first one max or pay double-triple the IP. This allows for more than one Role and destabilizes the power and lure of playing a Solo. Wisdom also has init as a specific skill in IU, which is another trick that can work.

Play fair but merciless and your PCs will avoid the full armour and heavy weapons. Because if they have them, the enemy, which almost always has mor emoney and goons, starts equipping API rounds, AV-8s and FBCs. All of which result in very sudden total party kills.

If the PCs don't feel the need to gear up for combat, they will gear up in different ways. That FN-RAL is useless when giving your report to your division manager or in the boardroom. It hinders when you are being hired as a bodyguard outside the CZ. Etc.

That said, I'd encourage ambition and reward same with money and influence. After all, once they get a ittle ways up and forget their roots..welll... you know what they say about falling. It's the last bit at the end that is the problem....

 

[eraser7278]

I'd recommend with going for flat point 55 stat, 55 skill. if they want to dump 10 into ref let them, then play up their weaker stats.

instead of salary charts, i'd say go for a flat 1000eb each. a grand will get you a decent pistol, some armor and a few sundries. enough to get by, but not enough to get comfortable.

if you want a 9mm to be a credible threat, get rid of skinweave. either hand wave it out of existence, make it insanely expensive or highly regulated. otherwise, the threat level jumps the second someone gets it done. even with the revised layering rules, skinweave lets you get to sp20 easily and then packing anything less than 12mmAP becomes a waste of time. also, enforce the social acceptability of worn armor. i've had some gm's say anything over sp14 looks like pure combat gear and polite society treats you about the same as a bum. they see any hard armor and they smile awkwardly while pocket dialing the cops.

on a related note, remember whatever you arm the opposition with will end up in the players hands. looting the bodies is a given in CP, so if you don't want them using rail guns, don't give rail guns to the opposing team.

keep a choke hold on their money. when you get a money pile going, it's easy to get complacent and pass on work. food, rent, medical bills, etc. when they make money, make them pay a chunk of it right back out. keep them hungry, that's what the gutter is all about.

have them buy their guns from this kid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SQpPGzdfsc

have them get robbed by this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtoM9x-Bfu8

have them buy their entertainment from this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjKVXvBWGZU

etc

 

[jacqsynn]

For the low level street style game I use these basic house rules.

1) No skinweave at all it isn't allowed, remember it makes folks almost imune to 9mm.
2) like wisdom said if they limit the firepower they carry, so do the enemies that way it stays with some balance.
3) Make them select there roles and if your mean, make them all put only 4 points in each skill from the career. let background skills go to 6.
4) For character attributes i do the following 65+1D10 for attributes and no they don't get another roll to add if they roll a 10. They put the points where they want with a minimum of a 3 in any attribute, max of 10 of course for the other end.

following the above I have seen players with solo's with 6 and even 7 emapthy, players had more fun then they did with the killing machines. Booster's actually became scary to players, that cop walking the beat was someone they actually had to make sure didn't catch them doing bad stuff.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

There are some excellent suggestions in the "Listen Up you Primitive Screwheads" GM guide for dealing with various forms of problematic player. It's a great investment if you haven't already procured a copy.

Personally, I go for the 60 stat points approach and I let people assign their 40 skillpoints and their (REF+INT) pickup skills. I also rigidly enforce the necessity of using streetwise and finding fixers to aquire black and grey market gear. I also give players a flat 10,000eb - 15,000eb, though I make sure that they have to have at least a months accomodation sorted out up front or a vehicle from that cash.

If Skinweave and layering are big issues then drop the SP of normal skinweave to 4 or 6 and remove the alternate ones. You can also halve the SP bonuses for layering. Limiting the players access to the nanites needed to repair the stuff can be another method of . (You could also double the rate of damage Skinweave takes from trauma.)

 

[TraderVic]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, guys!

Yeah, Skinweave used to be problematic back in the day when we used to play by the book. You can shrug off a full magazine from an Uzi with almost no damage. If a player wants to get it, I'll probably allow it for only SP 4 or 6 max like Chris suggested, that sounds reasonable enough even when combined with armor, but SP 12 is way, way too much (unless you're going for a full military type campaign).

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, guys!

Yeah, Skinweave used to be problematic back in the day when we used to play by the book. You can shrug off a full magazine from an Uzi with almost no damage. If a player wants to get it, I'll probably allow it for only SP 4 or 6 max like Chris suggested, that sounds reasonable enough even when combined with armor, but SP 12 is way, way too much (unless you're going for a full military type campaign).

I never understood how human skin was supposed to become tougher than a kevlar vest with some fibre woven into it.

 

[guidokpd]

I have played with only counting one layer of armor. Characters can have skinweave, wear armored clothes, and throw on metalgear. They still only get SP 25. Do still get the encumbrance penalties. Also the attention that metalgear brings and e really hot.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah, we;ve done the only one layer counts, but that was just because our GM thought multiple layers each at full value was dumb.

To get high, 18+ SP with Skinweave you need to have another SP 12 or so armour on top. At that point, you -are- heavily armored, especially if you are trying to covers your whole boy, including your face and handsm etc,

That's fine. In the real world today you an walk around with pretty high SP armour, but hardly anyone does. Why? It's lightweight, breathes easy and so on.

Multiple reasons,some or all of which might apply to your campaign: it's illegal in the jurisdiction, it's uncouth and shows compared to people who aren't wearing armour and/or it's plain hard to get.

Lastly, this whole idea that keeping things to pistols means street level is kind of weird. Kalishnikovs are a stupidly common weapon in the world, for example.Travel anywhere in the Third World and you will see them. That hardly means high-level-campaign. It means life-is-cheap-and-so-is-an-AK47.

In 2013, given how cheap guns and bullets are, I'm not sure why you guys focus on pistols - the 9mm no less - being some kind of determiner of low-level. Is it from Hollywood? Point is, you can easily have the same gritty, nasty campaign if the gangers use AK47s. Ask Cambodia, for example. Or nearly anywhere in Africa. Possibly Detroit.

 

[TraderVic]

I think you misunderstood my point. I never said that the campaign would be restricted to pistols only. But I don't want the game to immediately turn into MetalGear commando gaming where every single enemy has to pack at least FN-RAL with AP ammo to stand a chance to do any damage to the players. The 9mm was just an example. In the real world a 9mm semi-automatic is dangerous, it can kill multiple people in a flash, but usually in the game it was useless to even give enemies pistols since every PC is rocking SP 25 in every location, and that's what I want to avoid.

 

[wisdom000]

In 2013, given how cheap guns and bullets are, I'm not sure why you guys focus on pistols - the 9mm no less - being some kind of determiner of low-level. Is it from Hollywood? Point is, you can easily have the same gritty, nasty campaign if the gangers use AK47s. Ask Cambodia, for example. Or nearly anywhere in Africa. Possibly Detroit.

In an urban environment, you cant carry around an AK wherever you go. A handgun is concealable, and you can take it pretty much anywhere. Rifles and SMG's are mission specific, you don't just carry them everywhere, you take them only when you need them, when you know you are going up against some shit.

And since most edgerunners operate on the discreet side, a handgun just makes more sense for every Role involved.

Rifles and SMG's are great, but nothing beats a handgun for versatility.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

In an urban environment, you cant carry around an AK wherever you go. A handgun is concealable, and you can take it pretty much anywhere. Rifles and SMG's are mission specific, you don't just carry them everywhere, you take them only when you need them, when you know you are going up against some shit.

Nylon holdall's FTW!

 

[Sardukhar]

On this we disagree. A Handgun is what you use until you can get an actual weapon. As for carrying an AK 47 around everywhere, sure saw a lot of them in southeast asia. Cops, soldiers, security guards, private security, you name it. And that was nowadays. Seeing a booster ganger carrying an AK 47 in 2020 isn't particularly surprising.

You can't carry a handgun everywhere - anywhere with a metal detector will find it. This may be an issue of permits or something, depending on how you run your 2020 games, but in terms of low level street campaigns, I don't equate handgun to finance or difficulty level. I equate it to inferior weapon choice.

In the nicer parts of NC, an assault rifle would be a bad idea, but then again, that doesn't have anything to do with power level or how efficacious skinweave is against handguns.

I just have no problem running a low level campaign with skin weave present, in large part because I don't think the street level bad guys in 2020 would be carrying a mere 9mm, like it was 1986. More of a mix of Beirut + LA, I suppose.