Sad Pro Rank

[saodhar]

Got to the Pro rank today (for the second time after Mahakam season in 2020). Met the worst decks I've encountered during the "climb", although even more rigid and cloned-looking. I think I'd better stop at rank 1 max next time (if I reach it at all, that is ) - opponents were more decent there.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

Got to the Pro rank today (for the second time after Mahakam season in 2020). Met the worst decks I've encountered during the "climb", although even more rigid and cloned-looking. I think I'd better stop at rank 1 max next time (if I reach it at all, that is ) - opponents were more decent there.

I have a feeling that the top 3 ranks are always the worst. People just try too hard to reach pro rank, and utilize metadecking way too extensively to achieve that goal.
In pro rank the focus is more on the MMR, and to climb up the ladder, players cannot limit their plays to just one deck, so chances for more diverse game experience is a bit higher - at least in theory.
I usually stop playing ranked matches as soon as I reach pro rank, just when I get the contract done. I find draft and seasonal modes more entertaining.

 

[NoGG4Netdeckers]

After a week or two of a new season when things settle in pro rank it is basically like this:

2300 - This is where you will find the most amount of originality and people trying crazy decks, especially the lower you get, although net deckers of course exist here too.

2400 - This is 100% the net decker bracket, most people here play complete copy pasted decks from streamers, TLG website etc.

2500 - You will get a bit more originality here, while most are playing meta decks you will every now and then run into different, but not weak decks, and people that have at least added their personal touches to the meta decks.

2600 - Never made it here, but I've been matched against the people there. It is where you expect to find the top 10, it's not really that different from the average Gwent open I suppose, mostly meta decks but sometimes with personal touches.

Basically, don't go 2400+ if you want to play against the people who just play what they feel like. It is why you will find a fair amount of mill in the 2300 bracket, even though mill really sucks at high level play.

 

[saodhar]

After a week or two of a new season when things settle in pro rank it is basically like this:

2300 - This is where you will find the most amount of originality and people trying crazy decks, especially the lower you get, although net deckers of course exist here too.

2400 - This is 100% the net decker bracket, most people here play complete copy pasted decks from streamers, TLG website etc.

2500 - You will get a bit more originality here, while most are playing meta decks you will every now and then run into different, but not weak decks, and people that have at least added their personal touches to the meta decks.

2600 - Never made it here, but I've been matched against the people there. It is where you expect to find the top 10, it's not really that different from the average Gwent open I suppose, mostly meta decks but sometimes with personal touches.

Basically, don't go 2400+ if you want to play against the people who just play what they feel like. It is why you will find a fair amount of mill in the 2300 bracket, even though mill really sucks at high level play.

So still not worth any effort getting there, then

Since both times I made it to Pro rank in the last days of the season, I was definitely in the lowest bracket (this times I haven't even played 25 games with 4 different factions), yet it was definitely feeling like the 2400 bracket you describe.

 

[rrc]

After a week or two of a new season when things settle in pro rank it is basically like this:

2300 - This is where you will find the most amount of originality and people trying crazy decks, especially the lower you get, although net deckers of course exist here too.

2400 - This is 100% the net decker bracket, most people here play complete copy pasted decks from streamers, TLG website etc.

2500 - You will get a bit more originality here, while most are playing meta decks you will every now and then run into different, but not weak decks, and people that have at least added their personal touches to the meta decks.

2600 - Never made it here, but I've been matched against the people there. It is where you expect to find the top 10, it's not really that different from the average Gwent open I suppose, mostly meta decks but sometimes with personal touches.

Basically, don't go 2400+ if you want to play against the people who just play what they feel like. It is why you will find a fair amount of mill in the 2300 bracket, even though mill really sucks at high level play.

Exactly! Captured perfectly!!

Last season, I played ST in pro rank and of course, I lost so many games and reached 2300 mmr.. and that was so pleasant. Most of the decks are unpredictable and non-meta. I played a trap deck with real gotcha element (GT with Saskia+movement with out any bombs or madoc or Milva and most opponents assumed it is a pure movement deck and went for long R3 and I could manage to win a few games with that). People in 2300 were pleasant and gave GG even after losing to a trap deck. I also did it whatever deck I faced.

My advice, reach pro rank, lose some 10 games (either purposefully or by playing ST) and reach 2300 and there you will have fun.

 

[El.Zappo]

I reached PRO rather late last season with only 5 days to spare. My experience was pleasant around the standard 2400 MMR you get initially. Sure, few meta decks, but overall a lot less competitive then rank 3-1.

 

[saodhar]

My advice, reach pro rank, lose some 10 games (either purposefully or by playing ST) and reach 2300 and there you will have fun.

Why bother though? For those extra 10 RPs (I'm nearing 2K to spare) or a meaningless title? I've got the "Lover". Like I'll ever use it.

 

[El.Zappo]

I'm playing since 2,5 months now, those extra 10 RP are pretty significant for me.

 

[saodhar]

I'm playing since 2,5 months now, those extra 10 RP are pretty significant for me.

I never understood the rush for RPs. Why do people need them so badly? And it's only 5 journey steps anyway. And some daily quests give you 1 or even 2 RPs (so up to 4 RPs on higher prestige levels) if you are simply lucky to get them.
I don't know your situation, but it looks to me that a lot of people use any means to climb to the Pro rank instead of taking their time to learn the game, gaining levels and ranks with their own decks.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

I never understood the rush for RPs. Why do people need them so badly? And it's only 5 journey steps anyway. And some daily quests give you 1 or even 2 RPs (so up to 4 RPs on higher prestige levels) if you are simply lucky to get them.

I don't actually think the rush for RPs is the main reason for this striving to reach pro rank.
RPs are just an addition to that. A kind of important addition, especially for people, who do not have their reward books completed or full cards collection. It's a Collectible Card Game after all, and people like to collect things. But as soon as the goal is fulfilled, the RPs just keep stacking up without having any use any longer. That's what most people have faced or will face sooner rather than later, given that the game is literally bombing players with RPs.

I don't know your situation, but it looks to me that a lot of people use any means to climb to the Pro rank instead of taking their time to learn the game, gaining levels and ranks with their own decks.

Exactly. I have a feeling that many people just have this need to be as high as possible in the ranks, maybe they want to be perceived as good players, but this is often under a false assumption, that the rank is the main indicator and reflection of that. As a consequence they tend to limit themselves to just 2-3 decks, that they get the biggest winrate with. There are many videos on YouTube, where pro rank players simpy do not know how some cards work. And this is because of what you mentioned - they did not take their time to learn the game. All in all, the conclusion is always the same - netdecking is not doing them and everyone else any good.

 

[El.Zappo]

I never understood the rush for RPs. Why do people need them so badly? And it's only 5 journey steps anyway. And some daily quests give you 1 or even 2 RPs (so up to 4 RPs on higher prestige levels) if you are simply lucky to get them.
I don't know your situation, but it looks to me that a lot of people use any means to climb to the Pro rank instead of taking their time to learn the game, gaining levels and ranks with their own decks.

Because RP are linked to getting cards and scarp, and I can more or less craft one deck per season for 5-6k scrap for a faction that I don't already own key cards in and maybe two decks if the meta falls into something I already own. 10 RP extra are roughly 7 kegs extra. Believe it or not that makes a difference for me. It's nice if you already have everything, but I don't. Crafting sub-par decks isn't going to teach me anything and hinder my progress significantly. I'd rather learn how to win, not how to lose.

I don't actually think the rush for RPs is the main reason for this striving to reach pro rank.
RPs are just an addition to that. A kind of important addition, especially for people, who do not have their reward books completed or full cards collection. It's a Collectible Card Game after all, and people like to collect things. But as soon as the goal is fulfilled, the RPs just keep stacking up without having any use any longer. That's what most people have faced or will face sooner rather than later, given that the game is literally bombing players with RPs.


Exactly. I have a feeling that many people just have this need to be as high as possible in the ranks, maybe they want to be perceived as good players, but this is often under a false assumption, that the rank is the main indicator and reflection of that. As a consequence they tend to limit themselves to just 2-3 decks, that they get the biggest winrate with. There are many videos on YouTube, where pro rank players simpy do not know how some cards work. And this is because of what you mentioned - they did not take their time to learn the game. All in all, the conclusion is always the same - netdecking is not doing them and everyone else any good.

[…] You don't learn anything from playing sub-par decks apart from how to lose, and that's not valuable. If you play well crafted meta decks you will learn how synergies between cards work, popular win conditions and how to play against meta decks if you face them. There is no better way to learn how to counter a deck then to play it for while. What exactly is the benefit of learning how cards work that aren't meta right now? Why would I want to learn how to counter some meme deck that I face once in 100 games?

If you like it or not, the goal of the game is to win. The whole reward system is centred around winning. I have limited time per day, just one example but if I want to finish the journey I roughly have to get 10 crown points per day (in addition to the quests) or in other words I have to win 5 rounds. So if I have time to play three games, I have to win 2 and at least win one round in the third game. If I lose but don't get 2:0ed I have to play 5 games, significantly increasing my daily time commitment to finish the journey.

Climbing in the ranks is just a side note to that, it just happens. I never tried to actively climb ranks and still reached pro last season. The whole ranked system should be reworked in my opinion, but as long as it stands like this, I'm going to play decks that have good cards and good synergy. And if you do that, your deck will 90% look like whatever is popular right now, no matter if you craft it yourself or copy it from someone else.

 

[NoGG4Netdeckers]

I'm going to play decks that have good cards and good synergy. And if you do that, your deck will 90% look like whatever is popular right now, no matter if you craft it yourself or copy it from someone else.

This is a false assumption way too many players have. I've consistently made it into the top 200/500 for several seasons in a row now, using mostly homebrew or at least off-meta decks, and there's people that have made it higher than me doing this. Playing different decks does not mean you have to make them super memey or weak, you just need an understanding of what makes a good deck and what the climate in the current meta is.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

That's just elitist BS. You don't learn anything from playing sub-par decks apart from how to lose, and that's not valuable. If you play well crafted meta decks you will learn how synergies between cards work, popular win conditions and how to play against meta decks if you face them. There is no better way to learn how to counter a deck then to play it for while. What exactly is the benefit of learning how cards work that aren't meta right now? Why would I want to learn how to counter some meme deck that I face once in 100 games?

I think you're quite wrong on that, but that's my opinion. Countering well known decks and plays does not make you a good player, it makes you nothing more than a regular player, because everyone plays against these same meta decks and already knows what they are about and what it takes to neutralize them.

If you like it or not, the goal of the game is to win. The whole reward system is centred around winning. I have limited time per day, just one example but if I want to finish the journey I roughly have to get 10 crown points per day (in addition to the quests) or in other words I have to win 5 rounds. So if I have time to play three games, I have to win 2 and at least win one round in the third game. If I lose but don't get 2:0ed I have to play 5 games, significantly increasing my daily time commitment to finish the journey.

Everyone has their own motive, but it doesn't make my point any less valid.

The whole ranked system should be reworked in my opinion, but as long as it stands like this, I'm going to play decks that have good cards and good synergy. And if you do that, your deck will 90% look like whatever is popular right now, no matter if you craft it yourself or copy it from someone else.

You can play whatever you want, you can be a netdecker, for all I care. I just don't hold this approach in high regard, because it makes the game shitty in many aspects, but I don't expect you or anyone else to care about what I think or understand/accept my point of view.

 

[El.Zappo]

This is a false assumption way too many players have. I've consistently made it into the top 200/500 for several seasons in a row now, using mostly homebrew or at least off-meta decks, and there's people that have made it higher than me doing this. Playing different decks does not mean you have to make them super memey or weak, you just need an understanding of what makes a good deck and what the climate in the current meta is.

And you get “an understanding of what works” and “what the climate in the current meta is” by ignoring the current meta and trying to figure it out yourself instead of learning from experienced players. You do you, I’m going to stick with decks where I know they work for now instead of aimlessly trying to figure something out myself.

Edit: To elaborate on that a little, what you are saying is the best way to learn an instrument is to figure it out all by yourself and ignore everyone else, because if you copy what more experienced players then you do, you don't truly learn how to play the instrument. The reality is, if you wasn't to learn a skill, you first copy what other people do, then you start making small changes to what you copied and then after a lot of practice you are able to do things on your own.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

Pro rank is always sad. It's hopeless. Constant netdeck VS netdeck is what's it about. I honestly don't understand those people that invest time to play in pro rank hundreds of games that look like a copy of a copy of a copy.

 

[saodhar]

Pro rank is always sad. It's hopeless. Constant netdeck VS netdeck is what's it about. I honestly don't understand those people that invest time to play hundreds of games in pro rank that look like a copy of a copy of a copy.

I really wasn't expecting to make it Pro this time. I started rank 6 (I usually try to end the season rank 5-4, so I remain in the "golden" ranks after the season resets, rather a force of habit, since I really don't need RPs anymore). Suddenly I realized I was winning more often than losing. I even met some opponents I gladly sent GGs to. So it was a nice way to take my mind off the constant air raid sirens. And after 70 or so ranked matches I found myself in the Pro rank.

BTW, I know that names are not shown in Pro now, but does it also make all the opponents' avatars look like the borderless Pro avatar? A pity, if yes, because I like how my avatar-border-title combo looks - and I hope my opponents also like it.

 

[NoGG4Netdeckers]

And you get “an understanding of what works” and “what the climate in the current meta is” by ignoring the current meta and trying to figure it out yourself instead of learning from experienced players. You do you, I’m going to stick with decks where I know they work for now instead of aimlessly trying to figure something out myself.

Edit: To elaborate on that a little, what you are saying is the best way to learn an instrument is to figure it out all by yourself and ignore everyone else, because if you copy what more experienced players then you do, you don't truly learn how to play the instrument. The reality is, if you wasn't to learn a skill, you first copy what other people do, then you start making small changes to what you copied and then after a lot of practice you are able to do things on your own.

I have no idea why you would think that understanding what makes a good deck and the climate of the current meta translates into ignoring the current meta. About copying other players, I suppose it is a valid way of first learning if you feel you need guidance, personally I learned the game by just playing, as I do with most games.

The way you were phrasing things though were as if one is stuck playing these boring copy-pasted decks no matter how "learned" you already are.

I've made decks that turned out to be complete failures and others where I hit the jackpot. Deck building is half of what the fun is in this game if you ask me, and I just feel insanely thankful when I run into someone playing something different and providing me with new experience rather than the same boring thing over and over again, but as you say, you do you.

 

[El.Zappo]

The way you were phrasing things though were as if you are stuck playing these boring copy-pasted decks no matter how "learned" you already are.

I said that where? Read through my posts again, I didn't say anything that is even close to that, quite the opposite.

 

[quintivarium]

First, there are many more players at pro rank than there are really good players — some are inevitably going to be bad. It doesn’t matter whether there are net decks or not.

Second, there is a lot of RNG in Gwent. Simply by playing a lot with mediocre quality play will allow players to climb very high — especially when they focus on high RNG decks and play.

Third, not all decks will or should be equal (surely a randomly generated deck should be bad). Thus some decks will always be better than others. A “meta” of top decks is inevitable — the only real issue is how large, varied, flexible, and easily discovered that meta is. If players want to win (and many do), they will likely play meta decks. Moreover, it is the unfortunate nature of current card design that simply selecting a theme or archetype virtually dictates an entire deck (or at least the relevant cards in that deck). Thus many “homebrew” decks are so similar to net-decks that an opponent is not likely to notice a distinction.

Fourth, from a purely play-strategy point of view, a limited meta is actually desirable. The best players plan their plays based upon predicting their opponent’s likely response, their best response to that response, etc. — much as in a game of chess. That requires some ability to predict an opponent’s hand — which requires knowledge of their deck. There is a reason most top pros prefer open deck-list formats. A limited meta helps one predict opponent decks. The meta could probably be much larger than the current meta, and still achieve this, but an infinite meta is not desirable from a competitive viewpoint.

 

[saodhar]

The way you were phrasing things though were as if you are stuck playing these boring copy-pasted decks no matter how "learned" you already are.

Please refrain from personal attacks. I'm no moderator, but this really contributes nothing to the thread I've created to simply rant about netdecks in the high ranks.

I said that where? Read through my posts again, I didn't say anything that is even close to that, quite the opposite.

Err, could you please discuss this in the private messages?