Saskia's words to Geralt at the end of act III

[Vermeer]

@ver meer - is there lore to say that other kinds of dragon can change into humans?

Not in the books (at least that I remember). We only see Three Jackdaws in both human and dragon form, but then again, he is the only dragon that displays direct interaction with the characters (well... him and baby-Saskia climbing up on Yennefer, lol). No one says that only golden dragons can do that, though. The zerrikan companions of Three Jackdaws claimed that they followed him "because he is the most beautiful" (Geralt didn't understand wtf were they thinking, as human Three Jackdaws wasn't handsome at all). But in the game we see human-Saskia and she is not golden, so...

Saskia believes herself to be Villentretenmerth's daughter, and the "surprise" that he could have children does come up in the game. Any reason for thinking that he was lying to her?

No idea. I don't know if her actual mother survived the poison, either. Maybe she wouldn't take well to be an adopted dragon? xD

 

[Dona.794]

As I understood it, she is a daughter of Three Jackadaws, but she wasn't born a Golden Dragon, but a regular one. However, she retained his ability to shape-shift, but she can only assume one human form, unlike him.

 

[dragonbird]

...(well... him and baby-Saskia climbing up on Yennefer, lol)...

Sorry, I haven't read the books, and therefore don't know when you're stating something that comes from the books and when you're making it up as you go along. The result is that each post is just confusing me more than ever.

Is this from the books? If not, is there any reference at all to Saskia in the books, and do you have any reason other than "the lore say he couldn't have children" for saying that Saskia wasn't his child?

 

[Vermeer]

Ok, sorry. I'll try to clarify.

What we see in the books:
-Three Jackdaws as a human and as a golden dragon. He compares himself to a witcher (for the mutant issue), implying that he can't have children. We don't see any other dragon adopting human form as we don't see any more dragons besides a baby one.
-There is also (it is mentioned, doesn't appear directly) a she-dragon? dragoness? who was poisoned. She is who called Three Jackdaws for help in the first place. He did the job and took the dragoness' child. If he took the baby because the mother died or just as payment for the helping is not clear.

@Dona
While never directly confirmed, the implication of Three Jackdaws sterility, the fact that he had a baby dragon at the end of the story, and Saskia not being golden but claiming that she was his daughter, strongly suggest, in my opinion, that Saskia is actually that dragonling of Sword of Destiny.

 

[dragonbird]

Thanks. That's clearer now. So if Saskia is his child, the assumptions were wrong about golden dragons not being able to have children. If she was adopted, he never told her, and the assumptions were wrong about only golden dragons shapeshifting. Both seem to be valid options (and we may never find out in the game).

 

[Vermeer]

Thing is, I think the assumption of golden dragons inability to breed has more basis. While Three Jackdaws points it out himself, no one says that only a golden dragon can shapeshift. Saskia just tells that Three Jackdaws can shift as whatever he wants, being that a special talent, not the shifting itself.

 

[fchopin]

And she has her cause. She needs to stay in human form to lead the AVF.

Why?

 

[electrocide]

Or....it could be very simple....

Saskia is making a place where no matter the race u can feel comfortable staying there, what she believes. She said to him he will always be a welcome guest in Vergen because in many places witchers are not welcome by townsfolk, hating mutants and such is a common thing he is kinda a non-human and where are non-humans welcome? In vergen witcher/s would be welcome and treated as guests not outcasts or trouble.

 

[dmcaldw]

I thought it was pretty strange coming from someone seemingly close to death. Geralt, at least the way I played it, believed in Saskia enough to go out of his way to save her and I think that would at least garner a different way of suggesting him not to stay too long. That was pretty blunt, but maybe it's a dragon thing--don't know much about the story outside of this game.

It would have to be pretty blunt Geralt saved her life and brought down the mist his heroics in that aspect alone would be a distraction . Could she have worded it differently maybe . She couldn't have Geralt there because people would look to him for answers or approval on Saskia's policies based on the great things he did already she need hers to be the only voice for the time being .


Geralt's comment about not seeing a golden scale makes sense after seeing this or actually clears up the comment because it really didn't fit.

Ok, sorry. I'll try to clarify. What we see in the books:
-Three Jackdaws as a human and as a golden dragon. He compares himself to a witcher (for the mutant issue), implying that he can't have children. We don't see any other dragon adopting human form as we don't see any more dragons besides a baby one.
-There is also (it is mentioned, doesn't appear directly) a she-dragon? dragoness? who was poisoned. She is who called Three Jackdaws for help in the first place. He did the job and took the dragoness' child. If he took the baby because the mother died or just as payment for the helping is not clear.

@Dona
While never directly confirmed, the implication of Three Jackdaws sterility, the fact that he had a baby dragon at the end of the story, and Saskia not being golden but claiming that she was his daughter, strongly suggest, in my opinion, that Saskia is actually that dragonling of Sword of Destiny.

 

[GuyNwah]

The notion that Saskia told Geralt he should not expect to settle down in Vergen is based on a mistranslation. The correct translation of the original Polish dialogue is given here: http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23319-saskias-words-to-geralt-at-the-end-of-act-iii/page__view__findpost__p__709047

The difference between an honored guest who may stay as long as he likes, and "Two dayes y'ave larded here; a third yee know, Makes guests and fish smell strong; pray go" [Herrick], may be a cultural one that upended the translation of "guest".

Or maybe this is payback for Jimmy Carter's 1977 speech in Poland, in which he said he had abandoned the US, never to return.

 

[dragonbird]

Why?

Because, as she herself says to Geralt, they wouldn't accept a dragon as a leader.

 

[fchopin]

Because, as she herself says to Geralt, they wouldn't accept a dragon as a leader.

I think you did not understand my question.

Why would a dragon want to stay with humans? why not go back to her dragon family or friends?

 

[electrocide]

Its in dragons nature to raise someone then go on separate paths. Like a father dragon toughts everything he can his kid dragon and then leaves it to live a life on its own. I think that what Saskias Golden Dragon Father did.

 

[fchopin]

Its in dragons nature to raise someone then go on separate paths. Like a father dragon toughts everything he can his kid dragon and then leaves it to live a life on its own. I think that what Saskias Golden Dragon Father did.

Yes but why go with humans? i see no reason in the game for this.

The more i play the game the less i like Saskia as some of her actions don't make sense to me.

 

[dragonbird]

Because of her ideals, for companionship, ego, the possibility of sex with dwarves. Plenty of good reasons.

Anyway, there's always a question with any shape-shifter. Is a "dragon" a large flying reptile who can turn into a bipedal mammal, or a bipedal mammal who can turn into a large flying reptile? If you have two forms, who is to say which is the "natural" one? You can't just assume it's the one you had at birth. Think of caterpillars. Or Shrek's wife (forgot her name).

 

[fchopin]

Because of her ideals, for companionship, ego, the possibility of sex with dwarves. Plenty of good reasons.

Anyway, there's always a question with any shape-shifter. Is a "dragon" a large flying reptile who can turn into a bipedal mammal, or a bipedal mammal who can turn into a large flying reptile? If you have two forms, who is to say which is the "natural" one? You can't just assume it's the one you had at birth. Think of caterpillars. Or Shrek's wife (forgot her name).

If i was human and could change to a dragon i would always be human.

I may visit dragons so i could find how the live their life but i would not stay with them.

You have to find better answers if you want to convince me.

Her actions lead me to think that she is human first and dragon second not the other way round.

 

[dragonbird]

You have to find better answers if you want to convince me.

Very few people ever change their minds as a result of a forum discussion.
So we will differ in our opinions.

 

[pomor]

If i was human and could change to a dragon i would always be human.

I may visit dragons so i could find how the live their life but i would not stay with them.

You have to find better answers if you want to convince me.

Her actions lead me to think that she is human first and dragon second not the other way round.

As I understood, Dragons in witcher world are kind of loners. There is no real "dragon community", they do not hang out with each other. Everyone persues it's own interests alone. And humanoids happen to be Saskia's hobby.

 

[soldiergeralt]

it's like when a woman says to her male friend, "you're always welcome to come over, hang out and converse, but you will not have access to my vagina", if you catch my drift here, bud.

 

[dmcaldw]

If i was human and could change to a dragon i would always be human.

I may visit dragons so i could find how the live their life but i would not stay with them.

You have to find better answers if you want to convince me.

Her actions lead me to think that she is human first and dragon second not the other way round.

The answer comes from Geralt's own mouth when he was asked if he killed the dragon . She may be the last dragon . It would stand to reason with her up bringing she would choose human form as cover to what she really is especially if she thought she was the last dragon . I think there is more to her than what is apparent and she isn't the last dragon .I am assuming dragons are long lived creatures. Saskia's plans for a free state where all races can live together may work but it will take time time that she can continue to test the waters and eventually Dragons may have a home as well . Until then hiding as human is great idea she won't get hunted and killed she may have other assassination attempts but she will be human . It's all speculation but Saskia has plans and it can't be done as a dragon .