Save files are corrupted

[pagefault404]

So. I've been mainly screwing up my craft tests this evening. Way to go me.

The tests that I did get right gave scary similar results. You'll see in a bit. First my beaaauuuutiful failures:

- Craft 2000 Unity guns (We all need some unity, don't we?)

So.
Don't do that. Bad idea. My inventory wasn't happy with those 2000 guns at all. I could've simply thought about that. But. Yeah. I figured disassembling was going to take waaaaaaaay too long. (took between 5 - 10 seconds do disassemble 1 item)

Starting: 6229
Without disassembly: 7429

A bit of a useless stat, though nice to realise that items actually take up some fair space.


- Craft 50 psycho flexiweave. I feel like a psycho right now. Don't judge me. Ran out of mats half way through what is going to be my new crafting/disassembling format:

Craft 50 items, disassemble 50 items. Brilliant.

5 runs:
- Starting: 6470
- Items crafted and disassembled: 250 (duh)
- Ending: 6482

That's not too bad. Is it? only 12. (yeah it's still bad, but wait for the other results)

5 runs:
- Starting: 6470
- Crafted: 121
- Ending: 6514
Yeah that's right. I screwed up, okay?! I forgot about resources and I didn't have enough.

No matter though! I did get a little bit of data out of this. Because the bloating of the file by 12KB is nice to note. The Psycho clothing is clothing without any random modifiers. Now look what happens when you craft an item that does have random modifiers:


Crafting some more Unity guns. Same format 50/50 times 5

5 runs:
- Starting: 6229
- Crafted: 250
- Ending: 6290

5 runs:
- Starting: 6290
- Crafted: 250
- Ending: 6351

5 runs:
- Starting: 6351
- Crafted: 250
- Ending: 6411

5 runs:
- Starting: 6411
- Crafted: 250
- Ending: 6470


So. That's scary right!? Every 250 items with a single random modifier increases the file size by 60KB (sometimes off by 1, but honestly? Even if you continuously save the game the saves differ by 1KB. So I'm going to ignore that.)

I am not happy with the amount of crafting I did on wearable items without modifiers and I actually want to see if items with more modifiers change the results. We know modifiers matter, but we don't know if the amount of modifiers matter.


Now down to the question that @pagefault404 stated: What about the fricking unique identifiers.

Well. I think... If we take the unique identifiers into account and we say that they are especially heavy on items with random modifiers, then I think my Unity test might actually be usefull.

Let's see.
(65.000/250) * 60 = 15.600

If I got this right, which I definitely may not have: if I divide 65000(total) by 250 (used in my test) we get 260. So we can fit 260 of my tests into the save file to get close the highest possible unique identifier. If I get 60KB times that by 260 we get 15.600 and divide that by 1024 just to be cool. We all want to divide by 1024. 15MB. I don't think it's something we need to worry about just yet.

Unless I am getting something wrong here. Do let me know.

What I am really wanting to figure out isn't so much related to running out of itemIDs, but, are those itemIDs contributing to file bloat. These are good numbers though.

 

[FlorettaV]

What I am really wanting to figure out isn't so much related to running out of itemIDs, but, are those itemIDs contributing to file bloat. These are good numbers though.

Well. Maybe you didn't know you wanted to know we can't right now. But. heh. Whoops.


Okay.

So. I am prepared to do some more controlled tests. I'll do some comparison tests with items (wearable) with no random modifiers and I'll do some controlled tests with useable items. That shouldn't take too long.

 

[pagefault404]

Well. Maybe you didn't know you wanted to know we can't right now. But. heh. Whoops.


Okay.

So. I am prepared to do some more controlled tests. I'll do some comparison tests with items (wearable) with no random modifiers and I'll do some controlled tests with useable items. That shouldn't take too long.

Thanks man, you're doing good things for the cause.

 

[overhyped2077]

I'm guessing this is still an issue?

 

[Gen_Liu]

I've made some testing of my own and here's what I got.

Starting file size 3290kb
Crafted 50 MKI grenades and save: 3296kb
Wait for 24 hours: 3292kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3293kb
No difference if I wait longer.

Reload the starting file and made the same testing but without crafting:
Wait 24hours: 3286kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3287kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3288kb
Again: 3287kb
Again: 3286kb
It stabilizes after that point, no more change in the save file no matter how long I wait, it remains at 3286kb.

There's some weird stuff happening here, since the savefile is yoyoing kinda randomly, however, I'm still at act2 and an event occurs saying "relic malfunction" when I wait 48 hours. It's obviously an event that's supposed to happen but since it's a change in the game state, it may explain the "floating" 1kb I get during the testing.

Now this is where it gets interesting.
I tried the same testing with the same starting file (3290kb) but this time, I tried to upgrade some random boots that I had in my inventory:

After crafting once: 3291kb
Dismanteled all my grenades and almost all my outfit then upgrade the boots further (4 additional times): 3284kb
Wait 24h: 3280kb
Here too, waiting longer doesn't change the size of the savefile.

So, apparently, upgrading your items may also have an impact on the savefile size but dismantleing my stuffs seemed to make a difference in the right way.
Now bear in mind this is a one time testing, it may not be relevant but that's what I've got.

I'm gonna try and make some testing with the number of saves during a game session to see if I find any difference between when I save often or not. It's not gonna be easy since I have to keep a close look at how long I play the game and how many times I save but I'm gonna try (it's for science, worth it lol).

EDIT: I've made another testing after posting this, dismanteled a few consumables (grenades and healings/drink/food) and then upgraded a couple items I had in my inventory: No change in the savefile (still 3290kb).
Then, I dismantled a few outfits and my savefile size dropped to 3289kb.
After waiting 24h dropped further to 3285kb.

It's seems like dismantleing your outfit helps, at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

[binn05]

I've did some tests. One mission - save is

I have disabled it at the start. My save was corrupted at a size of 4.50 MB.

Thank you for replying.

 

[Applegamerz]

Let me get this straight. CDPR see no problem with people have to DOWNLOAD a +45gb PATCH right after they have installed the game right out of the box. But have trouble with increasing the save file size @ 8mb on the game saves.

I own hundreds of games Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation and can count corrupted saves on one hand!

I had never an issue with Witcher 3 and save sizes. I crafted hundreds of items and looted even more.

Cyberbug 2077 seem to deliver once more!

"Why be happy and content when you can be sad and miserable"

 

[pagefault404]

I've made some testing of my own and here's what I got.

Starting file size 3290kb
Crafted 50 MKI grenades and save: 3296kb
Wait for 24 hours: 3292kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3293kb
No difference if I wait longer.

Reload the starting file and made the same testing but without crafting:
Wait 24hours: 3286kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3287kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3288kb
Again: 3287kb
Again: 3286kb
It stabilizes after that point, no more change in the save file no matter how long I wait, it remains at 3286kb.

There's some weird stuff happening here, since the savefile is yoyoing kinda randomly, however, I'm still at act2 and an event occurs saying "relic malfunction" when I wait 48 hours. It's obviously an event that's supposed to happen but since it's a change in the game state, it may explain the "floating" 1kb I get during the testing.

Now this is where it gets interesting.
I tried the same testing with the same starting file (3290kb) but this time, I tried to upgrade some random boots that I had in my inventory:

After crafting once: 3291kb
Dismanteled all my grenades and almost all my outfit then upgrade the boots further (4 additional times): 3284kb
Wait 24h: 3280kb
Here too, waiting longer doesn't change the size of the savefile.

So, apparently, upgrading your items may also have an impact on the savefile size but dismantleing my stuffs seemed to make a difference in the right way.
Now bear in mind this is a one time testing, it may not be relevant but that's what I've got.

I'm gonna try and make some testing with the number of saves during a game session to see if I find any difference between when I save often or not. It's not gonna be easy since I have to keep a close look at how long I play the game and how many times I save but I'm gonna try (it's for science, worth it lol).

This is good stuff

 

[KeepItC00L]

I've made some testing of my own and here's what I got.

Starting file size 3290kb
Crafted 50 MKI grenades and save: 3296kb
Wait for 24 hours: 3292kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3293kb
No difference if I wait longer.

Reload the starting file and made the same testing but without crafting:
Wait 24hours: 3286kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3287kb
Wait another 24 hours: 3288kb
Again: 3287kb
Again: 3286kb
It stabilizes after that point, no more change in the save file no matter how long I wait, it remains at 3286kb.

There's some weird stuff happening here, since the savefile is yoyoing kinda randomly, however, I'm still at act2 and an event occurs saying "relic malfunction" when I wait 48 hours. It's obviously an event that's supposed to happen but since it's a change in the game state, it may explain the "floating" 1kb I get during the testing.

Now this is where it gets interesting.
I tried the same testing with the same starting file (3290kb) but this time, I tried to upgrade some random boots that I had in my inventory:

After crafting once: 3291kb
Dismanteled all my grenades and almost all my outfit then upgrade the boots further (4 additional times): 3284kb
Wait 24h: 3280kb
Here too, waiting longer doesn't change the size of the savefile.

So, apparently, upgrading your items may also have an impact on the savefile size but dismantleing my stuffs seemed to make a difference in the right way.
Now bear in mind this is a one time testing, it may not be relevant but that's what I've got.

I'm gonna try and make some testing with the number of saves during a game session to see if I find any difference between when I save often or not. It's not gonna be easy since I have to keep a close look at how long I play the game and how many times I save but I'm gonna try (it's for science, worth it lol).

The dismantle part is indeed interesting. Sounds like there might be a difference how the game handles selling & waiting compared to dismantling items. Maybe due to the fact that that sold items are recoverable for some time, compared to dismantling which permanently destroys item without a chance to "buy them back".

As your second test suggests it might be also worth to "normalize" the save by waiting 24+ hours and creating new save before doing any tests as there might be some previous data that will be deleted due to waiting.

 

[pagefault404]

The dismantle part is indeed interesting. Sounds like there might be a difference how the game handles selling & waiting compared to dismantling items. Maybe due to the fact that that sold items are recoverable for some time, compared to dismantling which permanently destroys item without a chance to "buy them back".

As your second test suggests it might be also worth to "normalize" the save by waiting 24+ hours and creating new save before doing any tests as there might be some previous data that will be deleted due to waiting.

Honestly I would advise waiting 72 hours or more, to ensure a stable save state. It's excessive, but, it's a necessary control.

 

[Gen_Liu]

I know I'm all over the place with the testing (sorry about that) but after editing my previous comment to add more testing, I've made, yet some more testing because I wanted to see if my theory about "dismantleing outfits help" is correct or not.

I've got some weird results.
I started from my earlier save on date at 3285kb and after I dismantled about 10 outfits, my savefile gained 2kb (3287).
I had to call my car in order to access my stash to make this test so, maybe it's that but it seems strange that I gained 2kb just for having my car get to me and make like 3 steps to reach it.
Right now, I'm kinda puzzled.
It seems like dismantleing your outfit helps but wait, it doesn't...

 

[ParallaxCreates]

Let me get this straight. CDPR see no problem with people have to DOWNLOAD a +45gb PATCH right after they have installed the game right out of the box. But have trouble with increasing the save file size @ 8mb on the game saves.

I own hundreds of games Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation and can count corrupted saves on one hand!

I had never an issue with Witcher 3 and save sizes. I crafted hundreds of items and looted even more.

Cyberbug 2077 seem to deliver once more!

"Why be happy and content when you can be sad and miserable"

Outrage isn't necessary. Everyone knows at this point that the most productive beta for a game is when it releases to the wild. Do we like it? No. Does it help? Yes.

 

[vegetaalex66]

Because I don't think it has been mentioned here yet, unless I've missed it: Upgrading items seem to take no toll on the file size at all. I tested upgrading 20 different items once, and I tested upgrading one item twenty times and two other items ten times (so 40 upgrades in total), and with both variations my save file size stayed exactly the same. I've waited 3 days before and after every test to make sure there are no other influences.

 

[PyrateLV]

"Save file size @ 8mb"
Brilliant CDPR, just brilliant.

Im at 71 hours and you just killed all my gameplay.

I cant begin to tell you how DISGUSTED am I with you. You have just made my "Never Buy From" list,
I hope you choke on my $60 because its the last you will ever get from me.

 

[IAmMrSoda]

Question. I saw it mentioned on another site that when it comes to consoles and PC that Sony and Microsoft test save file sizes during their certification processes to avoid these types of bugs on consoles, but that the PC is an "unregulated market".

Is that actually accurate? And if so could it possibly be a reason why, so far, this has only been a PC issue?

I know Skyrim had its own save bug that only affected the PS3 version. So its reasonably possible for one version of a game to habe bugs and issues that other versions don't.

I dunno. I'm just trying to get answers to sort this whole console vs PC issue with this save bug.

 

[drkstorm1]

'Anyway, a quick [tldr]
Don't craft anything, will prevent this from hitting you fast.
Playing the game doing things, the random events, everything really, adds to the bloat, slowly creeping.
So if you want to avoid this. Don't play.
If you want to mitigate it. Don't craft, disassemble, and keep inv as empty as you can. (stash too) sell components, as they're part of your inventory.

How likely is this: if you're playing without using crafting it's most likely possible to play the entire game 100% and do the story quests. and you'd probably not hit it. If you faff about and just enjoy the world on the other hand. We don't know yet, but probably you'll hit a limit eventually'

35 hours in half my build based on crafting Saying don't craft is basically like saying don't play. My save a timebomb and i won't play again until this is fixed.

 

[Skowolski]

Welp

I've been following this post, silently, since the beginning and refreshing it every day, reading the input here. THere's a lot of good information here, however, I feel like everyone was so quick to dismiss Sigilfey for his hot take about how to work around the issue, that they failed to even consider the valuable information he provided in one of his responses. I know a lot of people want to hate on the mods and the company right now, but, anyone interested in the history of this issue should read this.

Sigilfey linked to a post from The Witcher 3 forums made in 2017 that highlights the extensive testing done to uncover why saved games were going corrupt. Back then, they weren't hitting a size limit, but, they were hitting something else just as terminal, and it all stems from the REDengines handling of itemIDs. Back then, during the testing, the user that did all of this testing called this a runestone bomb, because it was best duplicated with runestones.

In The Witcher 3, the REDengine assigns a unique itemID for every single item you come across, even swords that are the same sword with the same stats, even stackable items. Every runestone got it's own itemID. The engine didn't see a stack of 1000 runestones as one item stacked 1000 times, but a stack of 1000 unique itemIDs. This is only part of the problem. Another issue the engine has, is, whenever you get rid of items, or keep them in your inventory whatever, every time you save and reload your game, that stack of 1000 runestones? It got 1000 MORE unique itemIDs, and the old itemIDs were not released from your save file inventory. They existed as ghost items.

So what players in The Witcher 3 were running in to, was an issue where, over time and after hoarding everything not nailed down, their save would surpass the 16bit integer used for itemIDs, which is 65,536. When this happened, your save would be corrupted because it would cause an itemID overflow, rendering the save file unreadable.

It's important to know about the history of this issue because I believe it plays a critical role in the current issue we're having now. Players who are getting corrupted saves smaller than 8MB are potentially surpassing the 65,536 limit for itemIDs on their saves, rendering their saves unreadable. Everyone else is hitting the max file size for saves, as noted in earlier posts where the EOF is not being written to the save file, like it magically gets cut off.

The problem, is that every unique itemID is causing save file bloat. The solution is obviously some kind of garbage collector process that removes these ghost itemIDs attached to our character inventories.

However, CDPR has known about this issue, because it was brought to their attention during The Witcher3 days, and yet the issue persisted when they improved REDengine 3 to 4. Why? Both answers will likely make your heart sink.

Either they CAN'T fix it, because it's some kind of inherent flaw tied to the engine that will completely break the way it handles inventory, or, they WON'T fix it, because doing so would cause irreparable harm to the way the inventory system functions, so much so that it would cost them a lot of time and money to fix, more so than correcting the issues on console.

I don't believe this issue was left in maliciously. I believe that, if they were even aware of this issue, they never imagined that people would either 1.) Hit the save file size limit, or 2.) Would exceed the 65,536 itemID limit. While it's short-sighted, again, I don't believe this is a malicious thing. I believe there's a reason for why the engine handles itemIDs this way, and I also believe that there's a reason why this issue has persisted since the days of TW3, maybe even earlier.

All of this is a hypothesis based on the testing done in the post SigilFey linked to way earlier in this post. You can find that post HERE and I would advise anyone and everyone read this post, because I believe this engine related issue is at the very core of what is going on.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Pretty much. Yes. A minor detail: Bloating suggests that the save file is filled with air. Completing the main story increases its size. That doesn't necessarily have to do with bloating But all in all; yeah, you got it.

In my tests it didn't really matter if you sold your items and waited for them to be purged, dropped them on the floor, or disassembled them. They all pretty much resulted in the same: No change in file size.

I mean i guess what alot of people missed to notice was also that the whole crafting items and scrapped items leave a message on the left side of screen narrating whats happening --> does those "quick floating messages or infos" if you call em that might have something to do at inflating save files?

Also what also gives me thought are all the "subtitles" or speech bubbles from NPC's along with whole speech subtitles from story mode=> arent most bloats in story mode after one long "storyline cinematic" is done that the files bloat more than in other "action" filled missions where it wont be alot to talk about or at least less?

i mean i am no programmer or anything in this field of expertise

i we think that devs managed to put all those things as kind of "history flow" in save it would be possible for saves to bloat?

anyway im following the thread since the beggining and was one of the first people here to encounter the problem.
also sorry if similiar post was made i made it just to page 25 ATM and havent gotten time to check all the way to p32 but i just had to post my idea if that was maybe a possibility // a theory.

Also sorry about bad grammatics im just dead tired after a few very long consecutive days on work.

Best regards, Skowo

 

[cIass101]

They pushed a hotfix in qa testing on Steam, let's hope it is the save fix coming

 

[BitterHalt]

They pushed a hotfix in qa testing on Steam, let's hope it is the save fix coming

Any change log?

 

[warbaby2]

O oh, my boi UEG is p*ssed now...