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Scenarios and Artifact removal.

+

Should Artifacts be balanced around their intrinsic value, while changing Artifact Removal.

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • No

    Votes: 5 83.3%

  • Total voters
    6
Alexander_Volgin

Alexander_Volgin

Forum regular
#1
Jul 11, 2020
Proposed balance change; Remove artifact removal and rebalance scenarios to reflect their true value.

Reasoning; Running artifact removal doesen't improve your chances of winning in the current meta. You might stand in a better position against NG, but there is a tradeoff, where you get slaughtered by other factions which don't run it. Besides, it has become easier to identify people that play artifact removal, given the inclusion of other neutral cards, therefore easier to play around for experienced players.

Yay or Nay.
 
KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#2
Jul 11, 2020
:confused:
 
Draconifors

Draconifors

Moderator
#3
Jul 11, 2020
GWENT threads don't belong in Community. Moved.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Alexander_Volgin
Pacifixer

Pacifixer

Senior user
#4
Jul 11, 2020
I think better way to deal with this issue would be to put artefact removal on some high value faction cards as an alternative ability.
Wild Boar: Melee-Deploy: Damage, Ranged-Deploy: Artefact removal.
 
Deezy88

Deezy88

Fresh user
#5
Jul 11, 2020
Alexander_Volgin said:
Proposed balance change; Remove artifact removal and rebalance scenarios to reflect their true value.

Reasoning; Running artifact removal doesen't improve your chances of winning in the current meta. You might stand in a better position against NG, but there is a tradeoff, where you get slaughtered by other factions which don't run it. Besides, it has become easier to identify people that play artifact removal, given the inclusion of other neutral cards, therefore easier to play around for experienced players.

Yay or Nay.
Click to expand...
What would you consider their true value to be?
 
Alexander_Volgin

Alexander_Volgin

Forum regular
#6
Jul 11, 2020
Pacifixer said:
I think better way to deal with this issue would be to put artefact removal on some high value faction cards as an alternative ability.
Wild Boar: Melee-Deploy: Damage, Ranged-Deploy: Artefact removal.
Click to expand...
Even so, decks that dont run artifact removal will still be disadvantaged. This is the main criticism of how artifact removal work. You either get a favourable match, or you dont. There is no way you can make the matchups less binary, given the presence of artifact removal.
I also dont think that making 'high value' artifact removal is the right way to go, as it takes away the flexibility and decision in your deck building, if those cards are auto-include, due to their power level.

Deezy88 said:
What would you consider their true value to be?
Click to expand...
This is a tricky question. Some factions can play scenarios twice. I dont mind that at all, provided that there is a single card, like the old caretaker which allowed you to replay it, available to all factions. Again, as it is the scenarios for some factions are just too strong, so that only those factions which benefit from replayability the most, will include 'caretaker'. An obvious response is to either buff or nerf scenarios.
 
Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
4RM3D

4RM3D

Moderator
#7
Jul 11, 2020
Alexander_Volgin said:
Yay or Nay.
Click to expand...
Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.
 
S

StrykerxS77x

Forum veteran
#8
Jul 11, 2020
Artifacts bad for the game. Too bad the dev's refused to remove them.
 
Hegemonkey

Hegemonkey

Forum regular
#9
Jul 11, 2020
4RM3D said:
Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.
Click to expand...
This is a common issue for "hate" cards. I don't like using them because it is the most boring type of counterplay. Basically swinging the game in your favor because you have the exact counter to something.

I agree tech cards like purifies are better designed and more flexible. Also far more interesting.

I think Shupe is my favorite tech card. It offers flexibility at a cost. You aren't always guaranteed to get the answer you want, but that can lead to more variety in gameplay as well. Bestestest Gwenting card xD
 
Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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Alexander_Volgin

Alexander_Volgin

Forum regular
#10
Jul 11, 2020
StrykerxS77x said:
Artifacts bad for the game. Too bad the dev's refused to remove them.
Click to expand...
Despite minimal amount of artifact removal in the current meta, it isn't worth it to include artifacts in the deck. Bronze units are way cheaper, and provide you with the same value as 7p artifact. I would say that artifacts are too bad to be played in this game. Scenarios are a different story.
Artifacts such as portal and svalblood totem are awesome. And I dont mind, just as a pilot project, to buff old-timer artifacts to see how they will compete in the meta. If they are too opressive, then restricting the number of artifacts in the deck to 5 or less, without nerfing provision costs of artifacts, will make them more balanced.

4RM3D said:
Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.
Click to expand...
Artifact removal is a hard counter, unlike purify. When playing scenarios, you either get your money's worth, with interest, in matchups with no artifact removal, or huge losses in matchups with artifact removal.

I dont like this kind of interaction. And I cannot be idealistic about of how things should be, as it doesen't resolve the main issue, namely the current state of scenarios. I'm confident that my proposal for the time being, is the best solution, until the creative folks get their head around how counters should work, just like purify.
 
Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
I

Iuliandrei

Senior user
#11
Jul 12, 2020
I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Archan6el and StrykerxS77x
S

StrykerxS77x

Forum veteran
#12
Jul 12, 2020
Iuliandrei said:
I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.
Click to expand...
They had plenty of warning about artifacts.
 
Alexander_Volgin

Alexander_Volgin

Forum regular
#13
Jul 12, 2020
Iuliandrei said:
I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.
Click to expand...
That is a fair point. Nerfing some scenarios to 20 provision achieves the same thing. Nerfing by other means such as decreasing the power level of the unit spawned by the scenario is another way to do it. Recent change to 'Trebuchet' has diminished the value of 'Siege' scenario.

Developers might nerf 'Ball' provided that the scenario will continue to be autoincluded in any competitive NG deck. So 3 months from now?
What i'm proposing ensures that you get more joy out of the game. Simply by increasing the provision costs of selected Scenarios, a fair price to pay for the value you get, while removing any binary bomb-heaver interactions. Making it enjoyable for both parties.
Vote yes, so that we can create more attention on this matter. Any change at all is arguably better than what we have now.
 
Archan6el

Archan6el

Forum regular
#14
Jul 12, 2020
Iuliandrei said:
I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.
Click to expand...
Scenarios and quite a few other broken or simply unfun cards and mechanics that got introduced since HC made me stop playing. Funnily enough, these cards and mechanics are still there but are pushed to the background by new problematic cards.
 
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