Scenario's, heatwave, echo cards and devotion should be top priority next patch

[fil_faniki]

You had me until you got into the WH stuff. I agree with everything you said before that point though.
People don't like getting their easy-win cards nerfed, but it's what has to happen. AA and Beagle play for twice their provision cost EVERY TIME whereas cards like Coup de Grace, Nature's Gift, Dies Irae, and Ard Gaeth either have a hard ceiling or can brick.
I also see too many decks forego devotion just to include Oneiro + Heatwave. It's cheap and it's annoying. I'm literally running scenario just to bait heatwaves now, can't do anything otherwise.

 

[Kessman]

or can brick

Yeah. It's so ridiculous when I have to mulligan my Cut the Grass because it will brick most likely. Imagine having a 10 provs gold brick.

They should give CdG the ability to damage all units. So sometimes I could replay my Meno at least.

As for AA (which I hate mostly), it's a ridiculously stupid card. An Echo with no conditions, tempo, thinning and saving your engines in one turn. Isn't it too much even for a 13 provs card?

 

[Slizzl]

Yeah. It's so ridiculous when I have to mulligan my Cut the Grass because it will brick most likely. Imagine having a 10 provs gold brick.

They should give CdG the ability to damage all units. So sometimes I could replay my Meno at least.

As for AA (which I hate mostly), it's a ridiculously stupid card. An Echo with no conditions, tempo, thinning and saving your engines in one turn. Isn't it too much even for a 13 provs card?

I love Coup de Grace, I think it's the best designed Echo exactly because it can brick. It's up to the player to have multiple ways of setting it up and not prematurely using them. I disagree that it should be given another option of play, I don't like Echos being multipurpose all-in-one cards that you can play whenever. This is why I despise AA and BEagle. You know they are coming back into your hand next round, if they brick that's on you. I've had some Coup bricks myself but ultimately I should've saved that Joachim for R3 instead of pushing, it's on me.
The only thing I would change about Coup is possibly making it 9 provisions.

 

[Draconifors]

Agreed with the above. Coup is perfectly fine the way it is now (though I wouldn't mind it being cheaper, either) and should not be dumbed down. Nilfgaard has so many sources of Spying that it's not hard at all to find good Coup targets as long as you plan ahead (and don't get horrible draws, but that's always a factor).

AA is stupid, Blood Eagle is stupid, Oneiromancy is stupid. Being able to have two Echo tutors in NR and SK is ridiculous.

I don't have a problem with the ST, SY, and MO Echo cards. The SY one even has a condition to its boost effect, even if it is super easy to get great value from it due to the nature of Firesworn. Shaping Nature is flexible, guaranteed value and Ard Gaeth is guaranteed value with no choice attached -- but they're not tutors and have a clear point ceiling.

 

[fil_faniki]

The only thing I would change about Coup is possibly making it 9 provisions.

It's already confirmed by seeing the old master mirror expansion page: Coup became 9 prov in it before they blocked access to the page.

 

[Sensimilius]

Also having a tutor for a tutor is pretty stupid to me lol.

 

[RichardIgnanz]

I never liked cards like Royal Decree or similar mechanics and so on. With such cards the game loses it's unpredictability.

In my opinion Echo cards like: Amphibious Assault , Blood Eagle, Oneiromancy should be removed. With those cards it doesn't feel like a card game anymore. Pick twice a card of your wish - wtf.

Even when you leave those cards. Let's compare for example two cards which ^^nearly do the same:
Royal Decree (10), pick 1 card
with
Oneiromancy (12), pick 2 cards in 2 different rounds

2! points difference to pick two instead of one card.

At first sight they looked interesting but in the end it was a bad development move.

 

[SgtScR3aM21]

I never liked cards like Royal Decree or similar mechanics and so on. With such cards the game loses it's unpredictability.

In my opinion Echo cards like: Amphibious Assault , Blood Eagle, Oneiromancy should be removed. With those cards it doesn't feel like a card game anymore. Pick twice a card of your wish - wtf.

Even when you leave those cards. Let's compare for example two cards which ^^nearly do the same:
Royal Decree (10), pick 1 card
with
Oneiromancy (12), pick 2 cards in 2 different rounds

2! points difference to pick two instead of one card.

At first sight they looked interesting but in the end it was a bad development move.

Those cards given echo are ultimately the reason I left this game.

 

[Slizzl]

I never liked cards like Royal Decree or similar mechanics and so on. With such cards the game loses it's unpredictability.

In my opinion Echo cards like: Amphibious Assault , Blood Eagle, Oneiromancy should be removed. With those cards it doesn't feel like a card game anymore. Pick twice a card of your wish - wtf.

Even when you leave those cards. Let's compare for example two cards which ^^nearly do the same:
Royal Decree (10), pick 1 card
with
Oneiromancy (12), pick 2 cards in 2 different rounds

2! points difference to pick two instead of one card.

At first sight they looked interesting but in the end it was a bad development move.

Those wouldn't even need Echo to be strong that's the strange part. Feels like the devs ran out of ideas with the Echo concept and just slapped it on some cards that shouldn't have had it in the first place.

 

[jed9653]

Scenarios to me need to be more interactive. It's incredibly binary to only have 1 card that can stop them. Make them row locked, make them to where they can only trigger not just by units played, but by having a specific unit placed next to them, or having cards that can put a pause or timer on them.

Heatwave is just a boring, overly universal card to me. I'd be fine if it was split into two separate cards, one for banish a unit, and one for banish an artifact, while both would maintain the same provision cost. Someone else in a different thread even mentioned adding the new adrenaline keyword to it to give it a reduced effect if played later in the round.

I'm fine with tutors in general. If someone wants to sacrifice a valuable unit or artifact for more consistency, that's fine, but I don't like echo for tutors. Echo is fine for a card like Coup or Dies, at least those require some more thoughtful setup to execute meaningfully.

I would love to see a lot more cards incentivize devotion decks.

 

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

There could be so many fixes for those cards, like:

Heatwave
-Split it in two cards: one for unit and one for artifacts, both at 10 prov.
-Change it to -> Change the highest enemy unit's power to 1 or Destroy an artifact ( two choice, a menu like shupe )
-Remove it completely but add more artifact removal/lock

Echo Cards
-Simply Remove echo mechanic.
-Change them to be able to tutor for specific provision cost cards, like the first time you use it you can tutor any card, the second time you can only choose provision 6 or less cards to tutor.
-Rework them completely. Some of them are completely busted, requiring no setup whatsover.
-Make them having a cost, like you must first discard a card in hand to use them.
- Make them requiring some form of setup to use them, examples:

Blood Eagle -> Destroy an ally warrior first
Ard Gaeth -> Have at least 2 WH unit in play
Amphibious Assault -> Have 1 Soldier and 1 Siege Engine in play
Dies Irae -> Have 3 Firesworm unit ( tokens included ) in play

 

[Kessman]

Echo Cards

One more suggestion: If your starting deck has no duplicates, get the Echo effect.

 

[replayNinja]

One more suggestion: If your starting deck has no duplicates, get the Echo effect.

Or just remove the echo cards altogether. It wasn't that long ago that there were no echo cards and frankly the game seems FAR more binary and toxic with them added. Scenarios should require setup to play for full value if not removed. These concepts add no element of strategy to the game, they make points "easier" but that's it..

 

[BAT0MAN]

So many problems with the game.
Maybe they should just overhaul everything? HAHAHAHA

At this point it's just a 25 card Rock, Paper, and Scissors CCG.

 

[fil_faniki]

So many problems with the game.
Maybe they should just overhaul everything? HAHAHAHA

At this point it's just a 25 card Rock, Paper, and Scissors CCG.

That would imply the tier 1 decks have particularly bad matchups

 

[Etoclas]

Agree on some points, but we'll see what will happen.

 

[hi_im_Tyy]

Hi everyone so I'll just get right to the point of the post. disclaimer: I am not a dev so I don't know how to properly balance a competitive card game. But I do want to open a discussion about the current ladder and pro rank state, and how consistently high the playrate is of one neutral card, and the faction scenarios.

With that out of the way I wanted to talk about scenarios and heatwave. When scenarios were introduced, immediately artifact removal cards became auto include, not just a tech card, especially in pro rank. Then they took away most of the golds that had 'destroy an artifact' ability because of their tempo, so then bomb heaver became an auto include 5p card. This lead to very awkward situations where if your opponent had a scenario, bomb heaver exploded in value for 5P, if they didn't you were left with a dead 4 for 5 in your hand. fast forward to heatwave getting a buff to 10p and bomb heaver being changed, and what a shock, heatwave is probably the single most played neutral in the entire game.

Patch after patch since scenarios have been added, they have had to be nerfed consistently, excluding Feign Death. Siege was OP so it got nerfed, same with ball. And it just makes you wonder, if they keep having to nerf these scenarios, but then nerf or remove cards that destroy artifacts so that you can try and get value for the cost of 13-15p in your deck, then what is the point of having these scenarios at all?

Now you could say "just make it so heatwave, and no other card can target scenarios at all. Let them get their full value." but then this would just lead to less creativity and diversity at the high level of play because then there would be no reason at all to not include scenarios in every deck.

With the transforming unit cards in their respective factions at least there is some room for interaction from the opponent. They seem fairly costed, and are open to being killed by units, specials, or anything inbetween. Some would say that whilst they are not perfect, they are closer to being a balanced interaction then scenarios ever were to being with.

I know Siege and Feign Death do not currently see a lot of play, but the other 4/6 do, I would say I run into haunt hunger more than any other match up. Anyway that's my post. Again I wanted to reiterate I know I'm not a dev and don't know what balancing is, and if we are being completely honest, there are a lot of other balancing issues besides scenarios and heatwave, it's hardly an issue. I'm not saying that heatwave and scenarios are breaking the game or anything. All I'm saying is it seems like they have an awfully high playrate, which leads to rather boring games.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Actually I like the idea that cards which had only Artefact removal have their new ability on Melee and their old (Artefact removal on ranged)

 

[InkognitoXI]

Actually I like the idea that cards which had only Artefact removal have their new ability on Melee and their old (Artefact removal on ranged)

Artifact removal was horribly binary and that suggestion would bring back the whole problem and honestly make the game strictly worse.
Just like Weather removal Artifact removal should not exist in the game.

 

[replayNinja]

Artifact removal was horribly binary and that suggestion would bring back the whole problem and honestly make the game strictly worse.
Just like Weather removal Artifact removal should not exist in the game.

was? How is it not binary now? Heatwave is still there. This is poison all over again, instead of addressing the issue they throw in something else that doesn't address the root cause. They can't remove Heatwave because scenarios are too powerful so the game is now binary, you either have it and win or you don't and lose (unless your SK or NR for obvious reasons)...Every broken mechanic in the game at the moment was the devs own doing and on some level incompetence. They don't appear to be learning from any of their previous decisions.