Scoia'Tael OP: Specials

[ibilibertas]

Scoia'Tael OP: Specials

I am not using the term OP lightly here. I see many topics on OP that and the other but besides some balancing that will -eventually- come, i see this as definitely OP.

The game excels if there's interactivity on the board by both opponents. In this case there's one sided. How can you have a meta were 3 units win you a game? I honestly would like to hear from more experienced players in all CCG if they have witnessed this. Well, 4 if you count Roach and 5 with Leader but it is basically 3 gd* units.

Things like Morv and the absurdly amount of weather a deck can spawn is a bit frustrating obviously when you don't have the appropriate card to counter them, but in the case of Scoia Special with 3 units even if you have what you should have it is practically impossible.

How did this passed the internal testing? Have other ppl encountered this deck? Why is no one mentioning it? I can only imagine some are winning against it vs inexperienced players?

*god damn

 

[PandaLin]

Here is my counter. You must win first round no matter. If they bombarding you with weather and spells, just play gold cards. Use your leader. In most case, they won't play Dolbathanna because they still try to buff them. Milk the second round. You want them to play Dolbathanna. Milk the second round as long as possible and then finish him in round 3.

Beside 3 cards....they lost the game if they don't draw them XD. I laughed so hard when I send them to the graveyard with Sweers. Even if the Dolbathhanna is buffed, you can kill the with scorch and ingi very easy.

 

[Laveley]

How did this passed the internal testing?

What testing? A few days of ptr?

We are the testing my friend...

But i agree that all this changes should have came earlier, preferably still on cbt.

 

[NlelithZ44]

The deck in openning post doesn't seem to be the best ST spell spam... That being said, it's a good tactic with high win/loose ratio, but it's far from being OP. Queensguard and Reveal Nilfgaard beat this deck without breaking a sweat, and if you know how to play against it, other factions can do pretty good too.

 

[ibilibertas]

I understand what you are saying but you honestly find this ok? Have you seen a mirror match of these? The previous meta was worst than what we have now and yet it was far more interesting than this.

I expect something to change, i expect an exiting meta, not this. I hope they will change it because they see there's something clearly wrong here.

GL.

 

[Mr.Win]

One great counter to this strategy is Vamp Regis since it gives you 3 random choices to consume one of your opponent's bronze unit from their deck. Use him with renew and there's no way your opponent can win. I do find it funny how Vamp Regis gets a lot of sh*t thrown at him for being this "underpowered" card, yet he's the most effective at countering this broken-brainless strategy. Also, due most of rank being filled of SKs, Vamp Regis works great there too and renew is always a plus in any deck.

 

[ibilibertas]

One great counter to this strategy is Vamp Regis since it gives you 3 random choices to consume one of your opponent's bronze unit from their deck. Use him with renew and there's no way your opponent can win. I do find it funny how Vamp Regis gets a lot of sh*t thrown at him for being this "underpowered" card, yet he's the most effective at countering this broken-brainless strategy. Also, due most of rank being filled of SKs, Vamp Regis works great there too and renew is always a plus in any deck.

The issue here balance, for me at least. I like being challenged, i learn from losing on equal terms, outplayed and so on, not from this.

I just hope CDPR address this. Can you imagine these decks in Tournaments? Also this way you force ppl. to a particular deck design. Meaning, you basically restrict variety and creativity. Yes Vampire and Renew are Neutral but they should not be an auto include.

I'm also surprised to see no ppl. talking about this deck, that's why i also question myself, am i missing something? Sure it has some counters but overall, were is the fun? There's a total an absolute absence of interactivity on the board and personally i think no strategy or mind games, no excitement whatsoever. When OBT started i had the most exciting matches, then decks like this one emerged and the disappointment is growing each day. Anyway, we'll see how it evolves i guess. Cheers.

Some things i am positive they will, no, not nerf, but balance out. Gold weathers for example, as Swim mentioned, just 1 less power and see how it goes. There's no need to nerf something. Minor adjustments and feedback and repeat. I love NG (yes, that famous one is not the only one) but Tibor is too much as is, isn't it? And these units with the shackles see almost redundant to me, they are practically useful only vs Resilient units. They should be like the current mages imo. That would add variety.

On the fanboy side, we are fans of CDPR and the game, shouldn't we want a balanced experienced across all Factions? I understand it's too early and balancing is a continuous process though.

 

[Alts-Gamer]

I'm also surprised to see no ppl. talking about this deck, that's why i also question myself, am i missing something?

I was waiting for a post like this to appear Actually these guys are pretty easy to be countered as long as you have at least 2-3 protections from weather effects and possibility to interact with his side of board. Gigni, scorch, Peter Saar, Maerdrome, they all say "hello my dear boy" to DB protectors. I found Cow Carcass pretty usefull too.

 

[Pruny]

Tibor is a bit strong, but you have to force oponent to draw him in round 2.
I hate Morkwarg more.

 

[Pruny]

Here is my counter. You must win first round no matter. If they bombarding you with weather and spells, just play gold cards. Use your leader. In most case, they won't play Dolbathanna because they still try to buff them. Milk the second round. You want them to play Dolbathanna. Milk the second round as long as possible and then finish him in round 3.

Beside 3 cards....they lost the game if they don't draw them XD. I laughed so hard when I send them to the graveyard with Sweers. Even if the Dolbathhanna is buffed, you can kill the with scorch and ingi very easy.

Problem in round 1 is that my gold cards Caretaker and Carantir have low strenght and i cant resurect anything or froze enemies.

 

[NlelithZ44]

Gotta love those false assumptions that people make here, nothing new. I can't wait for all the inevitable nerfs and will greet them with open arms. In fact, I think that units that gain strength in hand/deck is pretty bad mechanic altogether... It doesn't surprise me that some people might think it's OP, but as it was mentioned before, it's not that hard to win this deck with any other.

 

[4RM3D]

Ever since closed beta, I wanted to try a deck with only spells. Now I finally have the chance to do so. This really reminds me of the Spellcraft Deck in Shadowverse. Solely consisting of spells with 1 or 2 units. It was a pretty fun deck and the mirror matches were hilarious.

 

[isnadtochiev]

Overpowered is probably the wrong word. Its extremely potent against other "control" decks. Simply because, well, you've got nothing to control. Even with Vamp Regis (btw dude is really underused) WH struggles heavily with it. A more proactive deck shall however do fine.
DBP is strong, sure, but trouble isnt that. Trouble is its simply a poorly designed card.
During CBT, consume monsters were troublesome in several patches. Among others, Grave Hag was called to be a problematic card.
It never was overpowered, hell, it was 1 power "i die to anything" silver, that had a potential to go to that 16-20 value. But when played as last card, GH was a powerfull "prebuffed" unit you couldnt interact with, and that annoyed people.
Now we have DBP and spotters getting buffed in the deck. You cant kill them with 1 damage ping (ok, 2 as for current patch). And they are bronze. And they usually end up in the same power bracket. Thats basicly three times more annoying. And you can pull them with first light. In other words, they are exponentionally more annoying. Cards getting buffed in deck is simply not interactive, not fun mechanic.
If you want OP bronzes - Impera brigade is insanely powerfull one, easily going to 26+ power if unstopped. Uncontested WH riders can be a 30-40 point carryover in rounds 2-3.
But nobody complains about them. Actually, those are fairly cool card designs. Why? Because they need to be on the table to do their magic. You can interact and actively counter those powerhouse cards.
While i consider spotters to be badly designed, they are miles behind DBP in that regard. So while i cant really supprt OP thematic, i do wholeheartedly agree - such cards should've never been implemented. Just make them the "ST axemen" with a trigger like "boost by 3 on a friendly special played".

 

[NlelithZ44]

^This guy gets it. Though, we already had "ST axemen" with a trigger like "boost by 3 on a friendly special played" in closed beta.

 

[isnadtochiev]

Though, we already had "ST axemen" with a trigger like "boost by 3 on a friendly special played" in closed beta.

I never considered hawker supports to be bad cards. They were outshined by extreme thinning with dash first, and melleestack dwarves later. Besides, CBT meta was extremely centered on CA powerswings. Aard, Igni, Weather. Thats without mentioning approximatly 3000 scorch decks that countered 1-2 heavy units really hard, and led to creation of "i buff ambush, you cant interact with it, iam smart" decks. Wich is kind of funny if you think about it, there was litteraly no person who actually liked dragoon+ambush precisely for how uninteractive it was. Yet we get DBP in OBT.
I honestly think that making hawker supports agile and throwing some aromor their way would make them a decent core unit ATM. Ithline change alone is a huge thing for them. There very well might be a better option, but im pretty sure that "buffed in deck" is not one.

 

[Mr.Win]

The issue here balance, for me at least. I like being challenged, i learn from losing on equal terms, outplayed and so on, not from this.

I just hope CDPR address this. Can you imagine these decks in Tournaments? Also this way you force ppl. to a particular deck design. Meaning, you basically restrict variety and creativity. Yes Vampire and Renew are Neutral but they should not be an auto include.

I'm also surprised to see no ppl. talking about this deck, that's why i also question myself, am i missing something? Sure it has some counters but overall, were is the fun? There's a total an absolute absence of interactivity on the board and personally i think no strategy or mind games, no excitement whatsoever. When OBT started i had the most exciting matches, then decks like this one emerged and the disappointment is growing each day. Anyway, we'll see how it evolves i guess. Cheers.

Some things i am positive they will, no, not nerf, but balance out. Gold weathers for example, as Swim mentioned, just 1 less power and see how it goes. There's no need to nerf something. Minor adjustments and feedback and repeat. I love NG (yes, that famous one is not the only one) but Tibor is too much as is, isn't it? And these units with the shackles see almost redundant to me, they are practically useful only vs Resilient units. They should be like the current mages imo. That would add variety.

On the fanboy side, we are fans of CDPR and the game, shouldn't we want a balanced experienced across all Factions? I understand it's too early and balancing is a continuous process though.

True, I know what you mean. Its a cowardly way to play Gwent. Any player that uses this strategy should just never play Gwent again for being so brain dead.

Tournaments would indeed be pretty boring to watch if player just spam spells, but I'm pretty sure some folks would create a counter deck to it. Honestly, if you're trying to make a viable deck in rank, you either have to go full on counter or full on brawns.

The only reason why this deck is even viable atm is due to how powerful the snowball effect weather currently has. If weather were to be nerfed to the point where players cannot spam it for out-damaging tempos, this deck would actually be interesting and fun to face in rank since its forced to place down more units for points. I have no problem with the players spamming the bronze-control cards or even having the 3 bronze-buffed units in their deck, just weather is too strong to out muscle and that's where the problem lies.

 

[-Arkane]

True, I know what you mean. Its a cowardly way to play Gwent. Any player that uses this strategy should just never play Gwent again for being so brain dead.

Tournaments would indeed be pretty boring to watch if player just spam spells, but I'm pretty sure some folks would create a counter deck to it. Honestly, if you're trying to make a viable deck in rank, you either have to go full on counter or full on brawns.

The only reason why this deck is even viable atm is due to how powerful the snowball effect weather currently has. If weather were to be nerfed to the point where players cannot spam it for out-damaging tempos, this deck would actually be interesting and fun to face in rank since its forced to place down more units for points. I have no problem with the players spamming the bronze-control cards or even having the 3 bronze-buffed units in their deck, just weather is too strong to out muscle and that's where the problem lies.

The deck actually has a high skill cap to play efficiently especially at the higher ranks. I wouldn't call it braindead, try running it yourself and see how well you do.

It will get nerfed because of whiney kids but I'll enjoy it while I can.

 

[Mr.Win]

The deck actually has a high skill cap to play efficiently especially at the higher ranks. I wouldn't call it braindead, try running it yourself and see how well you do.

It will get nerfed because of whiney kids but I'll enjoy it while I can.

Skill cap? I wouldn't exactly call Gwent a skill-based game. As long as you have knowledge of what the meta decks are made of, its all about predicting and drawing the right cards. I ran it for 5 games and won all of it (got no GG's from it so I stopped using it). Its pretty simple deck honestly mate, just abusing weather's snowball mechanic for control is a no brainer. In fact, I once made a deck similar to this way back, and used frightener as the finishing play for 25+.

Also, enjoy it while you still can because once weather does get nerfed, you going to have to play the same way like everyone else and won't be able to rely on BS. Gwent is supposed to be 2 armies fighting against each other, not an army vs mother nature.

 

[-Arkane]

Skill cap? I wouldn't exactly call Gwent a skill-based game. As long as you have knowledge of what the meta decks are made of, its all about predicting and drawing the right cards. I ran it for 5 games and won all of it (got no GG's from it so I stopped using it). Its pretty simple deck honestly mate, just abusing weather's snowball mechanic for control is a no brainer. In fact, I once made a deck similar to this way back, and used frightener as the finishing play for 25+.

Also, enjoy it while you still can because once weather does get nerfed, you going to have to play the same way like everyone else and won't be able to rely on BS. Gwent is supposed to be 2 armies fighting against each other, not an army vs mother nature.

So according to you Gwent is about drawing "the right cards," got it. Goodjob they let you draw nearly half your deck and give you the option of mulligan 3 times. So If you don't draw "the right cards" and draw the other 10 cards you put in your deck do you instantly lose?

I'm sorry but it's hard to believe you've even played the deck once let alone win with it 5 times and stop because no one gave you GG's. Seems more like you went up against it and had no idea how to play around or counter it. If you know the ladder decks as you noted it should be easy for you to predict the plays like you've mentioned earlier but hey you may not have drawn the right cards I get it. I've climbed with every faction so I don't need to rely on "BS", I'm currently playing Spell'tael because it requires a little more thought process for me at least than playing Nilfguaard which is an easier climb that you might be interested in.

Gwent is about armies fighting each other under harsh weather conditons mate kappa. Btw the complaints about weather are mainly focused around the two gold cards Ragh Nar Roog and Drought not so much the bronze ones, that's mainly because of the massive tempo swing. The deck never ran Ragh and others including myself have dropped the Drought for a Schirru.

25+ Frightnerer sounds scary was this in ranked? Monsters were mainly abusing Grave Hag in Closed beta.

 

[Mr.Win]

So according to you Gwent is about drawing "the right cards," got it. Goodjob they let you draw nearly half your deck and give you the option of mulligan 3 times. So If you don't draw "the right cards" and draw the other 10 cards you put in your deck do you instantly lose?

I'm sorry but it's hard to believe you've even played the deck once let alone win with it 5 times and stop because no one gave you GG's. Seems more like you went up against it and had no idea how to play around or counter it. If you know the ladder decks as you noted it should be easy for you to predict the plays like you've mentioned earlier but hey you may not have drawn the right cards I get it. I've climbed with every faction so I don't need to rely on "BS", I'm currently playing Spell'tael because it requires a little more thought process for me at least than playing Nilfguaard which is an easier climb that you might be interested in.

Gwent is about armies fighting each other under harsh weather conditons mate kappa. Btw the complaints about weather are mainly focused around the two gold cards Ragh Nar Roog and Drought not so much the bronze ones, that's mainly because of the massive tempo swing. The deck never ran Ragh and others including myself have dropped the Drought for a Schirru.

25+ Frightnerer sounds scary was this in ranked? Monsters were mainly abusing Grave Hag in Closed beta.

My dude wtf are you on? If you don't draw the right card, your chances of winning decrease greatly. Its common sense that if you don't draw the correct cards you need for your strategy you'll lose, duh. Have you ever played anything besides weather spamming? This spell ST deck doesn't even requires that much precise or perfect mulligan, since your running nothing but weather spam smfh. Trying playing monster with their musters or NG with their deck thinnings and see if you can get perfect mulligan all the time.

Mate, I'm sorry you don't believe a stranger over the internet, whether you believe it or not, I don't mind. Once again, I used it and got 5 win streak from the brain dead spam. I have gone up against it A LOT and gotten about 50% WR on this deck. This is the only deck that my deck has a 50% WR against due to the weather abuse. Of course I know the ladder decks, just go on Gwent DB and I can see what brainless players are stealing, instead of creating their own deck. Yet you are relying on "BS", weather snowball mechanic is way too high. There is a reason why so many player are running RNR for example. More like your playing abusive-brainless-weather-spam because you can't create your own deck and have to follow the mass.

.............................yet this deck has 3 units? Where are your other soldiers? Weather isn't part of an army................................ Actually, people are complaining about RNR the most because it is the most powerful in terms of "situational". But the other weathers are pretty over the top too. Remember back when someone like CoC can snowball 2 points per turn and player had to lock or kill it before it grows too big? Well don't worry about that now, just use a fog and that thing will never grow (yes I know its base STR, but that's useless if it costs you a round and player milks you, or steal its from you). Of course why would a deck that centers around a pile of weather cards waste GOLD slots for more weather? Common sense, of course you wouldn't use RNR or DR.

25+ silver card on final round is pretty big like Tibor and Hjalmar, also didn't give CA. Yes Grave hag has been an overrated card in CB, but unlike most players in this game, I don't follow the mass or steal decks from Gwent DB. I always make my own deck and rank successfully with it.