Scoia'Tael OP: Specials

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Laveley;n8781170 said:
The current meta is worst. But this special control builds for me are a fresh breeze. At least they require some though to be played optimally. Again, have you tried? Have you played on high elo with them when you know that your opponent know what you are doing and are keeping his counter cards for the right moment?

Again, this types of decks are the only ones that still offer a reminiscence of tactical gameplay. You say there is 0 interactivity when someone is playing this deck. Well, maybe 0 interactivity on the board, but the actual mind game is much more interactive than anything else you can play on this meta, believe it or not.

I have watched a mirror match, i wanted to kill myself asap out of sheer boredom...

I watched them "controlling" decks were their opponent was playing units and waiting some interaction so there would be strategy involved.

I didn't played them because i cannot afford to have everything in my Collection, i am a F2P account, an unemployed avg. guy. I was playing NG religiously on CBT, meaning i was playing what most ppl. were avoiding because they wanted to be...creative and experiment #metasarcasm.

So i concentrated on them now and then i saw everyone saying NG is OP and i thought "no, NG is ok, all the other Factions must catch up now".

But i feel bad playing meta decks, i hate myself, i want to be playing things other people do not play. I want to surprise them but this meta made the decks more consistent, more predictable, more deck thinning like there's not enough the 25 card limit provides.

So i am at this point were i am trying to see it from outside. I am trying to see things from an objective point of view and damn it's hard. Because an objective point of view will the help the game and not just what this or the other Streamer prefers playing, you know? We should want the game to get better, not a card or a Faction.

What i feel is...to stop playing something i find no enjoyment. I wish them the best of luck though, sincerely!
 
PinkFloyd76;n8781440 said:
I have watched a mirror match, i wanted to kill myself asap out of sheer boredom... I watched them "controlling" decks were their opponent was playing units and waiting some interaction so there would be strategy involved. I didn't played them because i cannot afford to have everything in my Collection, i am a F2P account, an unemployed avg. guy. I was playing NG religiously on CBT, meaning i was playing what most ppl. were avoiding because they wanted to be...creative and experiment #metasarcasm. So i concentrated on them now and then i saw everyone saying NG is OP and i thought "no, NG is ok, all the other Factions must catch up now". But i feel bad playing meta decks, i hate myself, i want to be playing things other people do not play. I want to surprise them but this meta made the decks more consistent, more predictable, more deck thinning like there's not enough the 25 card limit provides. So i am at this point were i am trying to see it from outside. I am trying to see things from an objective point of view and damn it's hard. Because an objective point of view will the help the game and not just what this or the other Streamer prefers playing, you know? We should want the game to get better, not a card or a Faction. What i feel is...to stop playing something i find no enjoyment. I wish them the best of luck though, sincerely!

thats it, watching is completely different from playing. Specially on mirror matches, there are some harsh decisions to be made, its very challenging. But i agree that, generally, the game feels much worse now. Right now, i'm just expecting the next hotfix patch to see some improvement, i'm not even playing ranked anymore.
 
PinkFloyd76;n8781050 said:
First thought in my mind, shouldn't literally everything being counter-able?
They are currently counter-able. Most times somebody plays against this deck they hold onto a scorch as last card if they have it. IF ST player managed to get CA then the very last card can't be countered. But CA is no guarantee like it used to be for ST. I haven't yet felt like there's little interactivity unless it's a game of two control decks ... which has been the case in every meta so far in the game ... going all the way back to Eithne v Radovid control games where Insengrim bomb at the end would pretty much guarantee victory. This style of deck has been in the game since the beginning. Not everyone likes them, and that's totally cool. But I think they add a nice variety from the other styles (buff/clone/rez/reveal/weather/consume etc).

Don't get me wrong, I totally get being frustrated by the deck. Every type of deck will annoy someone. Rez decks have always bothered me personally. That's okay ... everybody has there own peccadillo right?
 
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Rawls;n8782220 said:
... everybody has there own peccadillo right?

Yes, that's why objectivity is important when giving feedback and deciding on things. I guess one of my top listed issues is also that 90% of people net deck. It gets frustrated because i love sarcasm...oh the imagination and creativity of people #metasarcasm

So yes, there's always something that annoys the hell out of most of us. At the same, if one is reasonable enough, he/she will find ways to counter things while making a fun and efficient Deck, isn't it? Ultimately the goal is to have a fun yet viable deck (just a bit above 50 win ratio is fine with me).

I would like to know the thoughts of the Dev team when they compare the previous meta to this one, i would like to know if the 25 limit for decks, plus the deployable Leaders, plus the order units which give more thinning, thus more consistency and predictability, is exactly what they had in mind. This is a very rigid meta, very strict and weather is the only control and is also used almost exclusively from 3 unit decks. Is this what they had in mind?

Ultimately, again, i know how the game feels to me now compared to before. As much as boring the previous meta was, it was eventually more exciting and interactive and promising than this one. I have said it multiple times, i really do not mind losing as long as it was my fault and the game's flaw. On one case you may learn something, on the other it's pure bad game design and the previous meta wasn't bad game design, it only need refining. Looking at data and acting accordingly.

Every day i try to login and play a match or two but then i feel like shit again for doing so. This is un-fun for me at the moment and i only feel happy knowing i played a better meta than this in CBT.
 
So I just played against this deck for the first time(I haven't played that much after the open beta reset) and managed to win, against an opponent who had the rank 15 border from closed beta. I currently use a mixed deck of queensgard, discard and morkvarg because I lack the cards for a complete deck. There actually was a lot of interaction and my opponent could have won had he played rounds 1 and 2 better. The deck is far from brainless if you want it to be effective. I use tordarrach armorsmith in my deck, which turned out to be pretty good at delaying tempo against this because you can afford to let the weather stay on a row for a couple of turns. Mardroeme also came in clutch(2 copies that got 20 value each). With a better deck, it wouldve probably been possible to defeat a better player.
 
isnadtochiev;n8777780 said:
Well, iam sorry, at first i assumed you've actually read the topic before replying to it. Since my issue with said deck is described on page one.

I have read the "topic" and your edited post on page one but your posts on the second page is what I replied to in regards to you assuming that the deck requires no skill.
 
-Arkane;n8799110 said:
I have read the "topic" and your edited post on page one but your posts on the second page is what I replied to in regards to you assuming that the deck requires no skill.

Well, you get an autowin against any other control deck. Thats alot of of games you just take, with no skill input. Its actually would be really hard to screw up so much to lose such game.
Yes, you can throw in really interesting cards, like Borkh. You can think over your every move and calculate probabilities on your opponent having particular cards in every turn. It doesnt hurt when you play any deck in game.
But it doesnt mean its "required". This deck has a very straightforward gameplay, remove everything your opponents play, take 1 round with leader+saskia, regain CA with Yaevinn, take last round with chain dol Blathanas on last turns.
And even while your opponent knows exactly what you are doing, there isnt much he can do unless his deck can pull those 20+ power swings from single card.
So, in challenging matchups you got tempo NG (wich is broken AF, and you know it) and probably SK, havent seen too much spell ST vs SK, but well, brokvar archers.
In the end, it comes down to what cards can pull enough tempo to overpower 2-3 DBP with 16+ power in last turns of round 3. There arent many, and unless your opponent runs and draws them, its a free win.
 
Yes, it is ofc. possible to win against this deck, or against Goldgaard/Spellgaard, it is.

My issue has become the fact of 0 interactivity on the board. It's like you start a match of chess and the other one goes, "You know what? I won't use pawns, i'll use Gwent cards only, you play it the regular way"...

But you know what? If Devs and majority of ppl. find this meta, as it forms, to be well entertaining, amusing and fairly exciting, then i have nothing more to say. Thought i do think some adjustments can make a huge difference so the game will have a more balance experience to most and not just to some.
 
isnadtochiev;n8800440 said:
So, in challenging matchups you got tempo NG (wich is broken AF, and you know it) and probably SK, havent seen too much spell ST vs SK, but well, brokvar archers.

I've played Morkvarg + Hunters versus Spell'otael... And that's a very difficult match up. Even if you get two Brokvar in your hand, they'll get zapped really fast and maybe manage to get one or two ticks of buff before dying... Which isn't nearly enough to give you good swings later on. The only way I can see a Morkvarg deck winning against Spell'otael is by just focusing on Morkvarg and buffing him a ton. And even then, it's tough (and requires a totally different deck that I can't make: basically a Spellige deck with Morkvarg and Olgierd as the equivalent of the protectors... They will be weak in round 3, but they can make you win round 1 and pushing a lot in round 2).
 
PinkFloyd76;n8789750 said:
Every day i try to login and play a match or two
I only play one daily level a day (family and work keeps me too busy to do more). How often do you see this deck? ... I rarely come up against it. If I'm playing 10 games it's probably 4 NG, 2 SK, 2 ST, 1 Mon & 1 NR. Normally the ST decks I see are based around dwarves. Granted I'm only level 10 and rank 8 (because of the 1 daily level). I'd just be surprised that you see this one a ton based on how frequently I see it. I think I've probably had dueling spell decks maybe 5 times in PB so far. That may have something to do with match making I suppose (though I don't know how all that stuff works).

It sounds like the DBPs are going to get a value nerf in the next patch based on the info yestersday, though the effects will remain mostly the same ... which I think is the right approach to take. Also, my version of the deck doesn't use that much weather. It's really just White Frost and Ida Emean ... though they can be replayed with Eithne and against some decks I frequently have to do that (mostly NG & Monsters). I've posted it in a few threads now but here's my version of the deck -

Eithne
YenCon - Vill - Schirru - Aglais
Scorch - Nature's Gift - White Frost - Last Wish - Ida Emean - Yaevinn
First Light x 3 - DB Protector x 3 - Azur's Thunder x 2 - DShackle x 2 - Hawker Support x 2 - DB Trapper x 2 - Epidemic x 1

It has like 18 potential spells (including Aglais, Schirru, Ida, Eithne & DB trappers since fireball trap counts as a special) in it and 13 potential units for my side of the board. I feel like that's about the right balance. I'm considering crafting Ciri next (though replacing my premium Aglais will hurt my soul). This is because CA is so important for the deck. Aglais is unreliable in my experience and frequently ends up a flat 10 value gold ... which isn't awful but it's not good either. She's just such a cool looking premium :(. I currently keep her in my deck over RNR for mostly aesthetic purposes though I also find RNR to be easily countered currently too as everybody carries FL just in case. I think the "pure" version with just 3 units + Roach in that tempo play is a little too easy to counter honestly. Playing at least one Hawker makes it so your DBPs aren't all gonna get scorched in one go.

I'm truly sorry if I'm part of the problem of your not enjoying the game. I just really like Eithne as a character (she & Milva were two of my favorites from the Witcher book series) and I've always had her as my leader. This is the deck style that synergizes with her. I don't think I've "netdecked" ever since I don't watch the youtubers or rely on GwentDB info. I've just gotten here from trial and error.
 
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Again lost because caretaker had nothing to resurect. OMG f********************k this deck!
 
why did you keep caretaker then? I get it - both SpellTael and SpellGaard can be frustrating to play against when you don't understand the matchup and have no idea what to do.

You win this matchup on card advantage - get it any way you can - high tempo plays and pass, then milk him so you have at least +1 CA going into last round. If they play Vill, they are likely going into round 3 with 3 cards, playing Vill first, then two more things and Vill triggers.
 
cgidiot;n8837380 said:
why did you keep caretaker then? I get it - both SpellTael and SpellGaard can be frustrating to play against when you don't understand the matchup and have no idea what to do.

You win this matchup on card advantage - get it any way you can - high tempo plays and pass, then milk him so you have at least +1 CA going into last round. If they play Vill, they are likely going into round 3 with 3 cards, playing Vill first, then two more things and Vill triggers.

The match up against this deck is pretty obvious on what they are going to do. The problem with these spell decks, is there ain't enough counter, or rather "good counters" due to how powerful weather is.

Getting CA and high tempo can be pretty hard if your opponent is constantly snowballing your tempo's or destroying your units before they can reach their potential.
 
cgidiot;n8837380 said:
why did you keep caretaker then? I get it - both SpellTael and SpellGaard can be frustrating to play against when you don't understand the matchup and have no idea what to do.
i cant change my deck just for SpellTell crap, with caretaker i can resurect morkwarg which is more comon.
i also had sucubus in round3 and got 1 buffed protector but he played Ithlinne and spamed another 2 = 40points
Ithlinne must be nerfed asap to at least 6points
 
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The problem here is, that other than this deck, ST really does not have anything else that would shine.

Dwarves are bascialy average at best, and die to anything that resets strenght or just removes resilience.
Mulligan ST is a gimmick. Yes, you get a trio of overbuffed bronzes, but the rest of the cards there are incredibly underwhelming.
And Ambush ST pretty much does not exist as a pure form, due a massive lack of ambush cards..
 
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These decks are terrible. No idea what the devs are thinking! I won't pay any money until this nosense is removed from the game. Scoiatel control was maybe a bit annoying in the closed beta but
kind of a normal game. This is just ridiculous.
 
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I haven't run i to this deck yet (with that said, it'll probably be then next game I play) but I've seen people play them on YT. How is something like this allowed to exist? It is possible to win but is EXTREMELY RNG based. You need to get REALLY lucky do draw decent cards.
 
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