learning how to dodge and how to move your camera view is actually crucial. Camera position influence the type of attack you will do (with fast attack, you can influence if you do the longer pirouette attack or just the standard sweep from the side) while dodging.. its ultimate crowd control tool.. you can circle around your enemies like a Sheppard dog, and attack when you find opening (and for occasional hits they do to you while dodging, its good to invest into fleet footed ability) .. i usually do this with drowners, herd them together just to burn them with igni all at once, then while they are stuck burning, just use critical heavy attack from behind to finish them off... actually hack and slashing as fast as you can is contra-productive in this as first hit stops the burning effect, and they start attacking you again... so yeah, thinking what you do, and how you attack is very important... but of course, this is Death March stuff, not for the easy difficulty...
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I know I'm trailing of the topic here, but if any of the devs are reading this, I'd really like to hear their perspective on some of the combat design decisions.
Like with Random combat animations...the most bizarre thing I've seen done in an action game and one that completely relies on proper timing.
Did they think that this would somehow contribute by making combat more interesting, with adding more unpredictability to it?
Or inconsistent dodge I-frames?
I don't agree with any fully negative criticism I've heard, but at least SOME are more valid, thorough and often mention the same things behind it...and sad thing is, this could be so easily corrected.
Like with Random combat animations...the most bizarre thing I've seen done in an action game and one that completely relies on proper timing.
Did they think that this would somehow contribute by making combat more interesting, with adding more unpredictability to it?
Or inconsistent dodge I-frames?
I don't agree with any fully negative criticism I've heard, but at least SOME are more valid, thorough and often mention the same things behind it...and sad thing is, this could be so easily corrected.
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@BoboTheMighty Sorry for jumping in the thread but, are you sure they are random animations? I think (and would argue regarding several behind the scenes videos that I watched about the game) the animation that would play the next is based on where your sword is positioned at the end of each attack. If what you mean is "Why is it not using the same starting move each time you enter combat" which would actually delete the randomness completely, then I'd ask "Wouldn't it turn the combat into combo-fests?". Like you know, light + light + heavy combos and stuff. I know gameplay-wise it would give you more control over the character (which is why this is used in Souls series, as it is more focused on the gameplay aspect), but I don't think that would look or feel realistic, would it? Not in Witcher sense, and not even in real world sense actually (in a fight, would you always start with the same move and use same patterns?). As far as I can tell, Geralt uses the "correct" animation, according to his and his enemy's position when you click the button. Of course I can understand if some people prefer the more "in-control" version, but as a game that is not completely focused on combat, I'd say the feeling and look of the combat is an important aspect to consider as well (hence, the fluidity, or rhythm, argument. It is said in the books that Geralt almost "dances" in the battlefield, that there is a rhythm to how he fights). I'm guessing that's why they went with this kind of gameplay (if they come here and elaborate that would be better though 
).
This is of course if I understood what you meant correctly. Please feel free to correct me if it is otherwise. Anyway, I'll go back to lurking, now that I gave my two cents
).This is of course if I understood what you meant correctly. Please feel free to correct me if it is otherwise. Anyway, I'll go back to lurking, now that I gave my two cents
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@BoboTheMighty Sorry for jumping in the thread but, are you sure they are random animations? I think (and would argue regarding several behind the scenes videos that I watched about the game) the animation that would play the next is based on where your sword is positioned at the end of each attack. If what you mean is "Why is it not using the same starting move each time you enter combat" which would actually delete the randomness completely, then I'd ask "Wouldn't it turn the combat into combo-fests?". Like you know, light + light + heavy combos and stuff. I know gameplay-wise it would give you more control over the character (which is why this is used in Souls series, as it is more focused on the gameplay aspect), but I don't think that would look or feel realistic, would it? Not in Witcher sense, and not even in real world sense actually (in a fight, would you always start with the same move and use same patterns?). As far as I can tell, Geralt uses the "correct" animation, according to his and his enemy's position when you click the button. Of course I can understand if some people prefer the more "in-control" version, but as a game that is not completely focused on combat, I'd say the feeling and look of the combat is an important aspect to consider as well (hence, the fluidity, or rhythm, argument. It is said in the books that Geralt almost "dances" in the battlefield, that there is a rhythm to how he fights). I'm guessing that's why they went with this kind of gameplay (if they come here and elaborate that would be better though
This is of course if I understood what you meant correctly. Please feel free to correct me if it is otherwise. Anyway, I'll go back to lurking, now that I gave my two cents
No worries man, I jump into other threads all the time.
I'm not so sure if it's 100% precise attack animations, but I think an extra difficulty that adds strategic depth to combat( similar to combat evolved mod) and puts you in direct control( less Arkham, more Dark Souls...like it's done with no soft lock mod ) would go a long way to silence most criticism.
Also, I'd personally ditch skill sets ( more fitting in something like FF or Pokemon, in my opinion) to begin with and change mutagens to act like potions with very long duration( 5 days or so?) with very unique effects...both pro's and con's, kind of like Witcher version of Fallout traits.
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I think we might be playing a different game. If the signs, power-up attacks, bombs, potions and ammo types don't encourage versatility, then I don't know what does. No one forces you to quen/attack spam, you know. That's one of the least effective strategies IMHO.
i think everybody originally started with quen/roll thing... i remember my first playthrough and i was always getting killed with it on Death March... now, after 5-6 playthroughts and 750 hours of in game time? i use roll only when i absolutely have to... which is almost never... i have remapped the dodge to space as i feel it to be a bit more natural and less stresfull to arm when playing for long time, while now my combat style is all about dodging sideways and trying to find openings.. even against guys with shields i seldomly use counterattack and instead i just get behind them with one or two dodges and hit them in the back for full critical... find it much simpler and faster way how to dispatch them, than waiting for them to attack to be able to counterattack them... and same thing with monsters...
Yes, but it is the safest and it makes no difference between a good or a bad player.
This type of combat is at it's best when you're having fun and using everything at your repertoire , but for god knows why, CDPR wanted to discourage that...no keybinding for signs, only a few potion slots, pointless and nonsensical limitation through equipping skill sets, restrictive skill development, etc...
When I play DmC or an Arkham game, I have the exactly opposite feeling...those developers understand that even the best combat system gets tedious ( and those are games with around 25 hours gameplay) if the player is constantly repeating the same, so they fine tuned their combat mechanics to discourage it.
They could add adrenaline script so that players who mix and match would feel more rewarded.
Restrict anti quen spamm so that each subsequent cast in a row, decreases strength or adds speed penalty. Balance signs, but do it intelligently...Yrden slow effect decrease by time duration, Aard knockdown chance by distance, remove Axii stun->attack, etc.
Blocking or parry feels too much like in Assassin's creed, little engaging the player with real, proper timing, or penalties for holding the button. Excessive dodging to move simply around should also be punished.
Sorry If I'm ranting here, but I don't understand reasoning behind some decisions...like they wanted to sabotage their own game. Damn shame, because beneath all it's flaws, I'm seeing so much more potential they could have done with it.
why should they punish dodge? its beyond me... it is not a game about normal human fighting with swords, but about mutated Witcher with inhumane reflexes... so yeah, he should be exceptional at dodging, parrying and swordplay.. after all, he is described as the best swordsmen in the world... there are other things that could be improved, yet combat design is not one of them... personally, i would prefer if there were no levels to equipment and weapons, as well as monsters.. each monster should have a fixed level, while there should be no bonuses to monsters because of your level. Instead, monsters should be difficult because of their abilities, not because of their hitpoints and attack power. Same with player, he should not get more HP or AP points, he already should be as capable as he can get at the beginning of the game, but he should be able to adjust his combat style as he progresses, while equipment would just complement it instead of playing major role. Yet, i dont blame CDPR for not making it like this... all this can be added to the game by modding community... we just need tools (even current ones are fine, but could be better)...
The problem is that combat such as in AC or Arkham series ( where you can clearly see it's influence) are shaped around 20-25 hours length, practically "mini games" next to this "Leviathan" ...and when you have soft lock, no block/dodge/roll/attack stamina penalties, no potion animation, etc.. overall combat system that is less punishing, more "spammy" and with less emphasis on strategy, precise timing and managing your resources, it feels like it overstays it's welcome.
I think WH really needs this extra, "unique" type of difficulty...whatever it is called. It would no doubt slow it's pace from what the developers intended, but make it more engaging and rewarding to master in the long run.
Hell, modders have already done 75% of the work here and this would make the game more "open" to the players who prefer Souls series/similar and the like, very likely affecting the sales. A win-win situation on both ends.
I think WH really needs this extra, "unique" type of difficulty...whatever it is called. It would no doubt slow it's pace from what the developers intended, but make it more engaging and rewarding to master in the long run.
Hell, modders have already done 75% of the work here and this would make the game more "open" to the players who prefer Souls series/similar and the like, very likely affecting the sales. A win-win situation on both ends.
On that I agree. Kingdoms of Amalur had it right.
Disagree. Timing is crucial when it comes to ripostes, and those are deadly. Also parrying decreases your stamina regen, as do roll dodge. Keep in mind that we play as Geralt, and it is canon in the books, that he dodges, pirouettes, and blocks like crazy without braking a sweat. So the ability to do so in game with superhuman ease is what it's supposed to be like.
Difficulty is not the point,the combat truly need is more kinds of enemy(with well designed animation) and more combat chose of Geralt.Even in souls if players can only use long sword to fight five kinds of enemy,the game will be boring soon.
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combat choice for Geralt? Geralt is witcher.. he has witcher style... you cannot force him into using some different style altogether... he uses what he should be using.. you cannot make him fight with shield or fight with some hammer or whatever... lol.. its Witcher game after all...
Be a witcher not means Geralt can use only 4 moves to wield different types of swords,and throw only 8 types of bombs.the combat is repeating in 100~200 hours,that's not good.
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This seems to have gone way off the original topic, and appears to be much more about changes to the combat. Please continue in the Gameplay thread in Suggestions:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/47828-Gameplay-Changes-Thread
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/47828-Gameplay-Changes-Thread
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