Seriously - Poison?? Binary, boring, annoying, all too common these days

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Is poison a good/well impemented mechanic in Gwent?


  • Total voters
    119
Poison should be in 1 faction only and must have higher provision costs

THIS.

I agree with higher provision costs. But shouldn't just be one faction. RIght now, poison is too cheap and too abundant. Every NG deck is running some sort of poison variation and it's pretty dumb if you face them all the same. I even added shupe inside my monsters deck due to the need to destroy their "balls" twice.

They probably will be adding some poison immunity buffs next expansion or so. Kinda typical of these card games, imo.
 

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I don't think the solution is to kill an already weak archetype when a couple of tech cards would solve the "issue"... Even though I personally feel there has to be a sort of tall punish in poison form. Making purify more abundant on the other hand, sure, maybe through one of future expansions, but still not enough to enable complete dominance of tall units... People who say poisoning is too easy I ask - easier than unlimited stacking of points?
I don't know if I'd call it an archetype though, it's more of a convenient cross-faction package (because it's mostly cheap)
But even if it was, archetypes that center around board wiping your opponent don't have to be preserved imo.
 
I'm a really huge fan of the poison mechanics and am of the opinion that it was one of the best additions to Gwent.
Why, because it offers a lot of interactions for the opponent and isn't instant removal. Instead, by design it kills units over a minimum of 2 turns. (too cheap ways to play 2 poison cards per turn are a problem for this of course, but that is another point)

But I agree with most others here, that poison cards are currently too cheap and too accessible. But I don't think, just making them more expensive will solve the problem, because that will lead to the problem, that having 1 poison stack on an enemy is doing absolutly nothing. And therefore, playing poison will become far too luck dependent.

Therefore, I think 1 poison stack needs a small effect, such that you won't loose all value from poison, if you don't have 2 of them.
Poison 1: This units points can't be increased anymore (no boosts/healing)

I choose this effect, because I believe dealing damage would already be far too strong, therefore I prefered an effect that still doesn't generate any direct points, but hinders the enemy protecting the card.
 
Ok, so look.. One of the issues with poison.. It just happened to be something I was reminded about when watching a Gwent game.
It's how damage is priced, and how poison is by far the most powerful damage in the game. Perhaps this is even the root of the issue.

So, in the game, the person boosted a mawler to 6 power and 2 armour using radovid loyal guard (isn't that the name??). So, the opponent used Fisstech Trafficker and Mutated Hounds to do 8 overall damage, 6 body+2 armour for a total of only 8 provisions, while putting 6 body on the table and 1 armour.
I don't know any other two bronze cards in the game who can deal 8 damage to a unit while putting 6body and 1 armour on the table. If we take a closer look, even 4 damage is something mostly reserved to expensive gold cards. Even 10p gold cards! Yikes. The sheer amount of damage that poison can do is absurd.
Sure, it is over 2 turns, but unless your deck is a purify deck, there is nothing you can do to stop it. To do the amount of damage that poison can do very cheaply, would require a very heavy control deck, with the best damage units in the whole game, combined with bronze damage cards. A real hardcore control deck, might be able to output as much damage as poison during 3 rounds.
But the cost would be significant, in provisions, and to your deck building. It would cost ALOT of provisions, and it would reduce your deck to only damage dealing units, and still it might not even be able to output as much damage as poison.

So, the problem might essentially be poison being the cheapest damage in the whole game. Even just dealing damage with a unit on a unit with 4 body, usually requires expensive gold cards.

Unless you only play units with 3 body or less and spam the board with those, poison will be able to output more damage than any other deck. As much damage as a "special card only" deck, but WHILE putting bodies on the board at the same time.
 
Poison gets countered pretty hard by swarm decks. If you are able to place multiple bodies (Germain Piquant, Caravan Vanguard, Insectoid Drones, various elves...) on the board, then the poison-card fails to achieve full value.
Poison gets countered by consume. You can mitigate your losses including a purify card or two in the deck.

I voted "It's not so bad". I think the possibility of playing two poison cards per turn is not fine. There should be time for the opponent to react.
 
Poisen in terms of Value, has a value of either 2 or 3, if we take Fangs of the empire as an example, it's 4 power for 4 prov, the highest amount of value a 4 prov card can give with special conditions, is 7, if we consider Poisen a special condition, Poisen needs to have a value of 3 to make Fangs of the empire play for 7, 2 Poisens, will be 6 Value, not to mention the removal part of it, so as long as Poisening a card gives around 6 value, or removal of a card with 6 value or less, it's fine, but when it becomes more than that, is when Poisen turns overpowered, basically, if you remove a 8 power card with two fangs, it means those fangs are playing for 8 value each, along with removal, only for 4 prov, So making Poisen to deal 6 Damage, instead of destroy, might balance it a little, not enough still since it might be removal aswell, but that would not take away it's frustrating, toxic Nature, it would be nice for ppl to come up with their ideas on how to make Poisen a fun and balanced keyword.
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Poison gets countered pretty hard by swarm decks. If you are able to place multiple bodies (Germain Piquant, Caravan Vanguard, Insectoid Drones, various elves...) on the board, then the poison-card fails to achieve full value.
Poison gets countered by consume. You can mitigate your losses including a purify card or two in the deck.

I voted "It's not so bad". I think the possibility of playing two poison cards per turn is not fine. There should be time for the opponent to react.
Just playing swarm decks is not a good solution, if I have to play swarm decks in order to have a chance against Poisen, it means it's imbalanced, not to mention that a good player will include a Lacerate or Lambert in their deck, also consume is not it's counter, I've had a game where I consumed every single Poisen he had, he didn't destroy any of my cards except for defender even though he was full poisen(It was a Deathwish deck with Overwhelming hunger, and I'm in Pro rank), and I still lost the round and game to it (it was a long round 3)
 
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he was full poisen(It was a Deathwish deck with Overwhelming hunger, and I'm in Pro rank), and I still lost the round and game to it (it was a long round 3)

I assume that was Nilfgaard scenario, where you can just output alot of points while removing the opponents units (all or most and/or anything of value).

it just scrubs the board of any value the opponent might have, unless ofcourse it's just spammy spawn deck with worthless units.

Spam vs spam? fun.. Arena...
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Poisen in terms of Value, has a value of either 2 or 3, if we take Fangs of the empire as an example, it's 4 power for 4 prov, the highest amount of value a 4 prov card can give with special conditions, is 7, if we consider Poisen a special condition

Few bronze cards get 7 for 4. Unless you poison units of less than 4 body, you consistently get 6 for 4 in the way you calculate this, which is also rare.
 
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Higher Prov.
More of them should be Orders vs. Deploy
and please introduce a card that cures "poison" and doesn't remove other status

Thanks

Actually, I've kind of changed my mind about this. The problem might not be poison, but scenario only. Poison without scenario is not so good actually.

Without scenario, poison might be ok actually. Maybe those "cheap" poison units SY and ST could be nerfed slightly, and maybe Fangs could be some kind of Spy unit. But other than that it seems ok.

Problem is scenario, which turns poison into spam. Can't do that without scenario (I think).
 
What if purify gave status immunity in addition to clearing status? What if you could target units in your hand with it too?
 
For me poisons decks are always the easiest to defend. Only matter your habilities as a player...

And the hand you have...

The other problem with Poison deck is that too many people play it. About 1 fight on 2 for me is against a NG poison deck. This is yet a proof that this kind of deck is not well balanced...

It would be more acceptable to fight against a NG poison deck if it appears less often.

Since about 1 week,I feel like make the same fight every hour, and it’s really boring...
 
And the hand you have...

The other problem with Poison deck is that too many people play it. About 1 fight on 2 for me is against a NG poison deck. This is yet a proof that this kind of deck is not well balanced...

It would be more acceptable to fight against a NG poison deck if it appears less often.

Since about 1 week,I feel like make the same fight every hour, and it’s really boring...

Is not so much about the hand you have. Its more how you design your deck. You have to put a unit to destroy artifacts. Not at first round. You let them play it at first. Its in the final round when you destroy scenario and you win easy the game. Its always the same process. I always win againts poison, its matter of design your deck to play agaisnt many decks. If you dont have control of that its so difficult to win only with your combos.

Just look up the "top" decks and Design your deck how you like but looking for those cards that make u win. In this case, against NF posion you must have always a Unit to destroy artifacs. (not special card, unit). A defender is good too, and one unit to purify. Those cards and your combos win easily NF poison.
 
As a mechanic it was perhaps ok when the availability was less. Right now, it's invasive and ubiquitous. ST Harmony is filled with it and NG is filled with it and they're very prevalent deck types. As well as your faction specific cards, you also have a number of neutrals cards and one of them (Maraal) is the best of the bunch, so it's entirely possible to have a deck full of poison givers. Add in the scenario and it becomes oppressive.
 
Is not so much about the hand you have. Its more how you design your deck. You have to put a unit to destroy artifacts. Not at first round. You let them play it at first. Its in the final round when you destroy scenario and you win easy the game. Its always the same process. I always win againts poison, its matter of design your deck to play agaisnt many decks. If you dont have control of that its so difficult to win only with your combos.

Just look up the "top" decks and Design your deck how you like but looking for those cards that make u win. In this case, against NF posion you must have always a Unit to destroy artifacs. (not special card, unit). A defender is good too, and one unit to purify. Those cards and your combos win easily NF poison.

Thanks for advices, but I already have cards you're talking about in my "favorite" deck (except I destroy artefact with the bomb instead of the unit). I note your gameplay about let NG play the first round, I did'nt try and it sounds a good idea.
 
Thanks for advices, but I already have cards you're talking about in my "favorite" deck (except I destroy artefact with the bomb instead of the unit). I note your gameplay about let NG play the first round, I did'nt try and it sounds a good idea.

The problem with bomb, its that cost 4 provisions and just destroy the artifact. So when he uses scenario and you destroy it, he has still + 4 points in that movement. In final rounds its important everypoints u could get. Thats why i use bomb heaver. It cost only one more provision than dimeritium bomb but give you + 4 and also you can find it using Royal decree (another must card)
 
Higher Prov.
More of them should be Orders vs. Deploy
and please introduce a card that cures "poison" and doesn't remove other status

Thanks
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Bingo!! We have a winner. My biggest complaint about poison is that if you counter it (Purify), you also lose the other benefits of the card. Why should you lose defender status, or your shield to get rid of poison? We need an antidote card.
 
please don't nerf poison especially on NILFGAARD. worked so hard to collect all NILFGAARD cards and don't want to collect other factions.
 
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