Settling that "Can I return it?" argument: GoG's new refund policy.

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What a world - you do something nice for your customers and they argue against it. "No, you can't afford this!" Probably they have a good idea what they can and can't afford.

If I were CDPR, I'd be glad that my customers gave enough of a damn about me to express those concerns.

I like CDPR. I like (love) GOG. I want both to succeed. I've seen what happens to companies when they offer overly-generous warranties or refund policies, so I expressed that concern.

:shrug:
 
Some devs are already worried about the new policy:

I don't get the connection between the policy and DRM free mentioned in that article. Buying a DRM free game, downloading it, getting a refund and keeping it is indistinguishable from pirating it. Since it's DRM free you could just... pirate it via non-official means. In other words, if someone was intent on pirating these games they probably don't put much thought into refund policies.

I can sort of understand the other complaints.
 
I don't get the connection between the policy and DRM free mentioned in that article. Buying a DRM free game, downloading it, getting a refund and keeping it is indistinguishable from pirating it. Since it's DRM free you could just... pirate it via non-official means. In other words, if someone was intent on pirating these games they probably don't put much thought into refund policies.

I can sort of understand the other complaints.
Good points.
 
What a world - you do something nice for your customers and they argue against it. "No, you can't afford this!" Probably they have a good idea what they can and can't afford.

I'm not complaining. This has no effect on me.

I'm simply considering all the scenarios and possible outcomes. I'm reflecting on the world around me and how the actions within it might have theoretical consequences beyond their face value. It's called a Socratic exercise. It's a thinking thing. For instance, I think that this topic is a wonderful moment to discuss human nature and the feasibility of selfless acts within our society.

Yeah, I know, it's weird, but that's just how I roll. Some out there spend their posts making snippy judgemental comments that imply other users are ungrateful and that aim to quelch debate, and that's fine! I just like to mull things over a little more, odd duck that I am. My apologies Sard. Clearly you have everything figured out (y). Silly me! I'll do less of it around these forums if it bothers you.

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I don't get the connection between the policy and DRM free mentioned in that article. Buying a DRM free game, downloading it, getting a refund and keeping it is indistinguishable from pirating it. Since it's DRM free you could just... pirate it via non-official means. In other words, if someone was intent on pirating these games they probably don't put much thought into refund policies.

I can sort of understand the other complaints.

Hadn't even considered that. The old refund option already allowed people the download, didn't they?

In fact, I think GoG's DRM policies have already allowed the games on its storefront to be bought, then widely distributed through torrents and websites.

Hah! None of this even matters. :ROFLMAO: You're absolutely right and that's a brilliant take. If people were out to abuse the system, there's already easier ways of doing so without having to contact GoG's customer support. If true, then GoG won't nearly be as stressed as we assumed.


There's still a matter of perspective for the developers though. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.
 
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Hadn't even considered that. The old refund option already allowed people the download, didn't they?

In fact, I think GoG's DRM policies have already allowed the games on its storefront to be bought, then widely distributed through torrents and websites.

Hah! None of this even matters. :ROFLMAO: You're absolutely right and that's a brilliant take. If people were out to abuse the system, there's already easier ways of doing so without having to contact GoG's customer support. If true, then GoG won't nearly be as stressed as we assumed.


There's still a matter of perspective for the developers though. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

I'm not sure on the old policy. I believe under the prior policy you couldn't return a game once you downloaded it. Don't quote me on it though.

My understanding of "buying" games is you're effectively buying a license to use the software. This is true for most software. People often forget this when discussing game ownership (the issue with digital vs physical ownership is more a matter of stuff like loss of service and your ability to personally resell the license). I mention it because I wouldn't put it past people to blindly think abusing the return policy would technically be legal. In reality if you buy the license, download the software, install it, "return" the license (aka, get a refund) and continue using the software you're using the software without a license. AKA, you're pirating it. It's just a more official method of pirating.

This confusion is the only reason I can think someone would point out the financial and legal implications of the return policy. We're talking about a DRM free game storefront here. Not that DRM actually works.

There may be merit to the returns department getting swamped from this type of thing. I suppose it depends entirely on the amount of abuse. I get the feeling it would be less then a lot would suspect. It's not because I think people are inherently altruistic either. It's more because dealing with refunds/returns/RMA's and such is a pain in the ass.

GoG already has people in place to comb over returns anyway. Worst case all the days in paradise they experience working their dream job become more exciting. In the end it probably means people trying to get refunds wait longer.

Then you get to the developer perspective, as you mentioned. I can certainly see the lack of a heads up creating friction. That sounds like they need to work on their communication. Although, I suspect those comments weren't talking exclusively about GoG. The more important bit is who eats the cost when a game is refunded. If it's not all on GoG and they didn't communicate the change I can see why devs are irritated.
 
I'm not sure on the old policy. I believe under the prior policy you couldn't return a game once you downloaded it. Don't quote me on it though.

My understanding of "buying" games is you're effectively buying a license to use the software. This is true for most software. People often forget this when discussing game ownership (the issue with digital vs physical ownership is more a matter of stuff like loss of service and your ability to personally resell the license). I mention it because I wouldn't put it past people to blindly think abusing the return policy would technically be legal. In reality if you buy the license, download the software, install it, "return" the license (aka, get a refund) and continue using the software you're using the software without a license. AKA, you're pirating it. It's just a more official method of pirating.

This confusion is the only reason I can think someone would point out the financial and legal implications of the return policy. We're talking about a DRM free game storefront here. Not that DRM actually works.

There may be merit to the returns department getting swamped from this type of thing. I suppose it depends entirely on the amount of abuse. I get the feeling it would be less then a lot would suspect. It's not because I think people are inherently altruistic either. It's more because dealing with refunds/returns/RMA's and such is a pain in the ass.

GoG already has people in place to comb over returns anyway. Worst case all the days in paradise they experience working their dream job become more exciting. In the end it probably means people trying to get refunds wait longer.

Then you get to the developer perspective, as you mentioned. I can certainly see the lack of a heads up creating friction. That sounds like they need to work on their communication. Although, I suspect those comments weren't talking exclusively about GoG. The more important bit is who eats the cost when a game is refunded. If it's not all on GoG and they didn't communicate the change I can see why devs are irritated.
You could return a game, but only if it was nonfunctional, and even in that scenario you had to go through support to try to get it fixed first. 30 day rule still applied.
 
People will definitely abuse it.

I think giving gamers anything more than 1 day with a game before they can get a full refund is giving them too much. Even an absolutely massive game like RDR2 can be completed in less than 30 days. Allowing full refunds for up to one month is just going to allow people to play games to completion and then return them for a full refund.

I hope I'm being too pessimistic and this all works out well for a consumer-friendly company like CDPR, but this policy seems very risky.
 
I hope I'm being too pessimistic and this all works out well for a consumer-friendly company like CDPR, but this policy seems very risky.

Not...really. The abuse argument is flawed, as these are DRM-free games. In other words, they aren't protected.

So what this really does is make it easier to try-before-you-buy.

If you're the type of person to abuse DRM-free, you're already doing it and this isn't going to make much difference. There'll be a few people who do this because it's easier, but there will be even more, I think, who try games they might not otherwise try.
 
"What if it sucks?"
If that's the case Steam will enforce a refund policy (refund regardless of gameplay time) like how they did to No Buy's Sky which is far better than mere 30 days ;)

"What if it's too buggy?"
If it's too buggy we would understand that before 2 hours, still can refund. Also being too buggy despite of this hype and delay hell would indicate game sucks as hell.

I do appreciate the topic and new policy, but it's not enough reason to pick game from GoG imo. The problem with GoG is:
1. It's library is mostly old games that remastered so newer pc can run. I don't remember many new games on GoG. Also, I highly doubt if devs would care if someone just straight pirated their game from 1987. "Abandonware" does exist despite of some people thinks otherwise.
2. It's launcher is nowhere near Steam.
3. Free speech. You can literally activate your Spartan Rage with a review and Steam won't do anything but using hearts for censoring swears. Well... you guys instant nuke any complaints about CDPR that includes a little bit rage. I have no reason to believe it's different on GoG
4. Lord Gaben (yes this is a valid reason believe or not)
5. Steam sales
 
3. Free speech. You can literally activate your Spartan Rage with a review and Steam won't do anything but using hearts for censoring swears. Well... you guys instant nuke any complaints about CDPR that includes a little bit rage. I have no reason to believe it's different on GoG

I'll address this one directly.

1. We don't publicly discuss moderation here. There are reasons for this and rules you agreed to before you posted. Applies to everyone.

2. We also moderate over on Steam forums for Cyberpunk. By "we" I mean Draconifors and I. Same rules, same policies. CDPR policies are applied - as are Steam policies.
 
1. It's library is mostly old games that remastered so newer pc can run. I don't remember many new games on GoG. Also, I highly doubt if devs would care if someone just straight pirated their game from 1987. "Abandonware" does exist despite of some people thinks otherwise.
2. It's launcher is nowhere near Steam.

1. This is not true. There are plenty of new titles on GoG. You can't find everything there so your comment has some merit. Suggesting it never has newer titles is incorrect.

2. I could see how this would be a big deal for some people. I'd consider myself an exception. Nowadays it would seem everything has to have a freaking launcher. If anything the mere notion of a separate launcher makes me not want to use software. If I can find an alternative without bloatware it's probably being used. IMO, Steam is one of the more bloated launchers.

3. Staying away from this one.

4-5. Okay, I guess....

If it's too buggy we would understand that before 2 hours, still can refund. Also being too buggy despite of this hype and delay hell would indicate game sucks as hell.

While true, you can find return policies damn near everywhere. Extremely generous policies where you can buy something and get a grace period to decide if you want to keep it. There is a reason for these policies. Why shouldn't games be treated the same? It's incredibly odd how GoG is attempting to provide similar functionality and being thrown under the bus for it.
 
1. This is not true. There are plenty of new titles on GoG. You can't find everything there so your comment has some merit. Suggesting it never has newer titles is incorrect.
But this is true.

GOG are also getting new titles all the time, including (brand) new games.
Some titles will never be on there due to the no DRM principle, but it's not like Steam has all games either.


5. Steam sales
GOG has sales too. And without (in my opinion) greedy events that encourage spending real money on purely decorative things, some of which only last for a month or two and are a complete waste (or would be if one bought them).

If it's too buggy we would understand that before 2 hours
Not necessarily. 2 hours is not long at all if the game has a very long tutorial, includes character creation and you're one to spend loads of time in that, or something else of the sort.
 
I wish that GOG would have my favorite games too, so I could finally uninstall Steam. This new policy made me smile. I am sure some people will abuse it, but I really do wish GOG to succeed. They feel so different from Steam and *shivers* Epic Games.

2h definitely is too little, when we speak of the Steam-thing. I have burned my fingers way too many times with this.
 
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