Sex, Nudity, Discussion of Same - the Whole Ball of Wax.

[xer21]

Why does it need to add to the world building, story, or gameplay?

because if it serves no actual purpose, its just fluff. This is literally how you get bad games, movies and books. More isn't better. Better is better.

If you write a book and a plotline goes nowhere, it shouldn't be in the book.

 

[Hydroaddiction]

no one's questioning whether or not you should be able to interact with prostitutes though.

What, you don't enjoy pooping? That's exactly what a synth would say.


(mods this is a joke)

my point wasn't that I wanted a pooping minigame, my point is that the "It needs to be as real as possible line is sooooo selective with people. only certain things need to be real but push too far and all of the sudden the realism and immersion isn't necessary.

and to that I ask, why do you REALLY want ultra explicit sex?



did I say you should?



1) because one may be justified by the game world. I already said if it doesn't service the world the violence is gratuitous. Joel shanking zombies and getting his face bitten off by clickers in The Last of Us service the world. Joel literally exploding heads like rotten melons with a stomp was stupid and didn't fit the tone or world of the game. Neither is more graphic, but one felt out of place and exploitive where the other didn't.

2) as explained before, because you can only do so much on an M rating. They're not making an AO game. Contrary to popular belief, CD Projekt actually likes money.

Oh yes, you are who is implying that if something does not fit with story and gameplay shouldn't be in the game. And I'm opossite to that. In an RPG you should be able to do a lot of things apart of the main story line.

Why I want? Well, it is very recognizable your position. I don't like any type of censoring, and I don't like the double moral that you are showing. I give you a context various times right up and you just won't accept.

My reasons? Immersion. I don't like to feel as a child. As I said you before, you can see a bullet penetrating in a head, but you can't see sex in relationship. "Oh what an offense!! That not fits in the game!" Oh yeah but you can also run over the people with vehicles like GTA..

The only valid argument that you give me is your 2) answer.

Thank you. People asking for a mature treatment of sex by way of explicit acts have surprisingly myopic (and in this case, sexist) views of sex.

"Thank you"? Hahahah. It looks like a war for you. Oh men if sex scares like that to you I prefer to comment no more. Lot of sensible here. Also, you should look at my answer to THAT reply.. I'm not native english speaker and I answer with an aclaration.

 

[Snowflakez]

because if it serves no actual purpose, its just fluff. This is literally how you get bad games, movies and books. More isn't better. Better is better.

If you write a book and a plotline goes nowhere, it shouldn't be in the book.

Who are you to say what does and doesn't serve a purpose in a game? :unsure: No offense. But none of us get to decide that. It's all preference.

Surely, the same could be said of sitting down, and having sleeping animations, or door opening animations (character opening the door, not the door literally opening), or lockpicking animations, or crafting animations.

None of that servers a gameplay purpose (with the exception of a lockpicking animation, since that may be necessary to finish the minigame). It's all just fluff.

Wonder why the games that have those aren't bad, then.

 

[xer21]

Who are you to say what does and doesn't serve a purpose in a game? :unsure: No offense. But none of us get to decide that. It's all preference.

That's why I'm literally asking what it adds and so far all the answers seem to be "because I want it", "because the game is supposed to be mature" and "because people have sex irl". None of which are valid reasons.

I'm even literally leaving an open answer people and no one's taking it, which suggests that they don't have a real reason. I keep talking about world and character building and no one's taken the gift in this debate and said "I need explicit sex because it will change how I view my character and/or it would represent how I roleplay my character's attitudes towards sex".

I gave people a free answer and they couldn't take it. Sounds like they just want porn.

Surely, the same could be said of sitting down, and having sleeping animations, or door opening animations (character opening the door, not the door literally opening), or lockpicking animations, or crafting animations.

None of that servers a gameplay purpose (with the exception of a lockpicking animation, since that may be necessary to finish the minigame).

yeah but you could argue it helps build the world. Which if you go back through my posts, I'm using world building as a reference, not just gameplay.

 

[Snowflakez]

yeah but you could argue it helps build the world. Which if you go back through my posts, I'm using world building as a reference, not just gameplay.

Don't want to get too far OT (I don't really have a dog in the sex fight, beyond wanting it in the game), but why are you the arbiter of what can and cannot serve the purpose of world building?

Here, I'll now make this an on-topic post by summarizing my thoughts on the topic at hand.

• It should be in the game.
• It should serve the same purpose it served in the Witcher 3 - fun and romantic relationship progression. It sounds like it has this covered, though, with one night stands and regular relationships alike. Props to CDPR.
• It doesn't need to be interactive for me. Not really interested personally in some sort of sex minigame.

Beyond that (and notice how I said "my opinion," "personally," etc.) I don't much care how it's handled. I'm not of the opinion that sex has to serve any purpose at all.

If a character wants to bang every willing thing that moves and CDPR wants to make that a thing that can happen, that's frankly not anybody's business but the person playing that character.

 

[Hydroaddiction]

I never it had to be a part of the main story line or even the story at all. I specifically said world building and character building for a reason. Please do try to keep up.
As I said, does it fit the world and add to it? fine. But if it doesn't do either, then its wasted space that serves no real purpose.


its not censoring if they choose a different artistic direction.

I'm showing no double standards, I have been very consistent, I even used my example with violence and not sex as to how gore can fit in one context but not another even in the very same game.

if you feel like a child when a game doesn't intercut with a brazzers cutscene, the problem isn't the game.



I never said anything about being offended. I asked what it contributes and you pretended that I was offended. Quit with the strawman arguments.



they're both valid, you just really don't seem to understand what I'm saying, although I'm getting the sense that English isn't your first language (which is cool) so I'm guessing there's only so much I can get across.


since when is acknowledging that men are capable of complex sexual appetites that exist in states beyond "NEED SEX NOW" the same as being scared of sex?

Ehh.. yeah. You say that I don't understand you, and I think you don't understand me. No, I don't feel like a child if the game doesn't allow interact as a brazzers scene, I feel like a child when devs are scared to show something that is part of the life. Something that you won't accept. A lot of parents buy CODs and Battlefields for their children. GTA. Here you have, my little boy. Kill a lot of people. But, sex? Satan! Oh yes, I don't like the naturalization to kill people and the scaring of the sex. Maybe you're wondering we want to change the game and have a Roco Sifredi simulator. We are talking just about censoring something should be there is not correct, and yes, it FITS with the game if the devs confirmed that you will can have relationships and go to a brothel. It is just to allow to see that. But you won't accept that.

But you know? As someone said you before.. why can you tell what serves or not serves a purpose in the game? I like little details. If it's not sex, it should be another foolishness. I just want the games in their better version, and I dont like "out of situation" things. But in a Cyberpunk, OPEN WORLD RPG? Yes, it fits, and a LOT more than any other game. If you can't see that it's your problem. And no, as I said before, english is not my native language, I do what I can to explain me as better.

 

[xer21]

Don't want to get too far OT (I don't really have a dog in the sex fight, beyond wanting it in the game), but why are you the arbiter of what can and cannot serve the purpose of world building?

.

I'm not. I'm asking people to justify why they want it. I haven't heard a real argument.

I literally just gave a possible argument for why you SHOULD have it but no one's even gone that route.

My thing is, if you can't justify it beyond "I want it", then you probably need to ask yourself if it needs to be there.

Second, I'm not saying we shouldn't have sex in the game. I'm asking why people need to take it to a certain level, and what it adds. no one's engaging. You've made more coherent discussion than any of them and you don't even have a dog in the fight.

• It should be in the game.
• It should serve the same purpose it served in the Witcher 3 - fun and romantic relationship progression. It sounds like it has this covered, though, with one night stands and regular relationships alike. Props to CDPR.
• It doesn't need to be interactive for me. Not really interested personally in some sort of sex minigame.

those are all valid reasons.

I'm not of the opinion that sex has to serve any purpose at all.

if it serves no purpose though, then why should anyone expect a dev spend dev time and money on something that has no purpose? everything in the game has to be put in intentionally. If you want a dev to put in effort, but then you admit you don't even know WHY you want it, then what exactly is your argument REALLY about?

If a character wants to bang every willing thing that moves and CDPR wants to make that a thing that can happen, that's frankly not anybody's business but the person playing that character.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do that. I'm saying that if its not in service to the world, then why do you want it? everything in the game either serves the world, or it doesn't, and those that don't are in some small or large way detrimental. Adding fluff for the sake of fluff degrades the other parts of the game.

I don't care how many people bang whoever. that really isn't what this is about. people wanted something (that wont happen anyways) that would be a pretty drastic change from the current availability. I'm asking people why they want it. there's no judgement on what they want, merely their motivations. I'm interested in having a discussion, not trying to judge people for what they want.

Again, I literally gave people a free counter argument and no one's taken it? why is that?

 

[Hydroaddiction]

That's why I'm literally asking what it adds and so far all the answers seem to be "because I want it", "because the game is supposed to be mature" and "because people have sex irl". None of which are valid reasons.

I'm even literally leaving an open answer people and no one's taking it, which suggests that they don't have a real reason. I keep talking about world and character building and no one's taken the gift in this debate and said "I need explicit sex because it will change how I view my character and/or it would represent how I roleplay my character's attitudes towards sex".

I gave people a free answer and they couldn't take it. Sounds like they just want porn.

.

Hey! Look at that. Can you see how you don't have any intention to hear anything that is oppossite to your opinion?

Of course not. I gave you various answers and you say the only reason you had read is "because I want it"? Come on!

If its not clear:

- Immersion. If devs confirmed you can have relationships. this fits with it, and this is only to allow to see that as realistic as should be.
If you see a bloody headshot when you kill an NPC, you could see sex if you have a relationship and the game says to you that you're in a relationship, long term, one night, or whatever. As simply as that. And the devs confirmed that you will can to do that (having sex/romances/relationships). It is just to go opposite to the censoring. Just that.

What purpose has to run over the people? This is a game, and each one should have to play by the way that he/she wants. Options and freedom are not a bad thing.

This is no as important, it is just debating an aspect of the game, but man if it need to be repeated one and other and other time.. it seems like it shouldn't has.

 

[Mgec]

Can I roleplay as a gigolo with a cyber-penis? Is it possible CDPR?

 

[Sheeeen]

Why does it need to add to the world building, story, or gameplay?

What other purpose does it serve than to be edgy with your dark tones? People are looking for an R rated Ready Player One version of Cyberpunk.

 

[Hydroaddiction]

What other purpose does it serve than to be edgy with your dark tones? People are looking for an R rated Ready Player One version of Cyberpunk.

And.. that should be very cool.

 

[Sheeeen]

Can I roleplay as a gigolo with a cyber-penis? Is it possible CDPR?

If they listened to these people who want ultra XXX uncensored HD cocks with immaculately detailed penetration, that just might be possible.

 

[xer21]

I feel like a child when devs are scared to show something that is part of the life.

You keep saying people are "scared". How is there any evidence that me, CD Projekt, or anyone else is scared of anything? maybe its not a part of their artistic vision? Why are you assuming their motives? There's literally only one known fact here: that you cant go full explicit because of ratings, and those are non negotiable.

A lot of parents buy CODs and Battlefields for their children. GTA. Here you have, my little boy. Kill a lot of people. But, sex? Satan! Oh yes, I don't like the naturalization to kill people and the scaring of the sex.

ok? I'm not excusing that either. is anyone defending this? These are pure strawmen.

again you keep accusing people of being scared of sex, and refuse to acknowledge when anyone says that isn't the case. I'm not saying sex is bad, or that it shouldn't be in the game. I'm asking what it purpose is to go full explicit. You keep dodging that.

We are talking just about censoring something should be there is not correct

"Should" only works if you think its a fact that the game should have penetration shown. It's not. There is no "should". the game could have no sex at all or full on porn, "should" doesn't enter the discussion in either situation.

And censoring only applies if CD Projekt WANTED to show explicit stuff, and got pressed against it. That only works if you can prove CD Projekt WANTS explicit penetration.

and yes, it FITS with the game if the devs confirmed that you will can have relationships and go to a brothel. It is just to allow to see that. But you won't accept that.

there's many places to go to between "the devs said sex is in the game" and "hardcore penetration".

I never said there shouldn't be sex. I'm asking why it needs to be that level of explicit. does it serve a purpose?

But you know? As someone said you before.. why can you tell what serves or not serves a purpose in the game?

I'm not, I'm asking YOU to tell me. .

I like little details. If it's not sex, it should be another foolishness. I just want the games in their better version, and I dont like "out of situation" things.

This is the closest you've ever come to answering my question.

I mean, you don't really explain WHY explicit penetration is "better", but hey, at least you finally said something beyond "I want it".

. But in a Cyberpunk, OPEN WORLD RPG? Yes, it fits, and a LOT more than any other game. If you can't see that it's your problem. .

the problem isn't that I can't see it, it's that YOU can't explain it.

I repeat again, what is the purpose of it? WHY does it fit? Why is it better than other alternatives? What makes the game a better experience if I see a sex scene with penetration compared to a sex scene without? Does it have to exist for a reason or do you just want to by masturbation material without the shame that comes with frequenting a porn site?

 

[Mgec]

@xer21 It has to be explicit just like violence is.

 

[xer21]

@xer21 It has to be explicit just like violence is.

again, ignoring that we can't actually do that, what exactly does it add to the game compared to the standard that TW3 set?

 

[Hydroaddiction]

You keep saying people are "scared". How is there any evidence that me, CD Projekt, or anyone else is scared of anything? maybe its not a part of their artistic vision? Why are you assuming their motives? There's literally only one known fact here: that you cant go full explicit because of ratings, and those are non negotiable.



ok? I'm not excusing that either. is anyone defending this? These are pure strawmen.

again you keep accusing people of being scared of sex, and refuse to acknowledge when anyone says that isn't the case. I'm not saying sex is bad, or that it shouldn't be in the game. I'm asking what it purpose is to go full explicit. You keep dodging that.



"Should" only works if you think its a fact that the game should have penetration shown. It's not. There is no "should". the game could have no sex at all or full on porn, "should" doesn't enter the discussion in either situation.

And censoring only applies if CD Projekt WANTED to show explicit stuff, and got pressed against it. That only works if you can prove CD Projekt WANTS explicit penetration.

there's many places to go to between "the devs said sex is in the game" and "hardcore penetration".

I never said there shouldn't be sex. I'm asking why it needs to be that level of explicit. does it serve a purpose?




I'm not, I'm asking YOU to tell me. .




This is the closest you've ever come to answering my question.

I mean, you don't really explain WHY explicit penetration is "better", but hey, at least you finally said something beyond "I want it".



the problem isn't that I can't see it, it's that YOU can't explain it.

I repeat again, what is the purpose of it? WHY does it fit? Why is it better than other alternatives? What makes the game a better experience if I see a sex scene with penetration compared to a sex scene without? Does it have to exist for a reason or do you just want to by masturbation material without the shame that comes with frequenting a porn site?

1 - I say "scared people" because you even admit about the ratings. A game with sex will have a highest rating than a game wich is about to kill and doesn't have sex. There are a lot of games with violence and it's accepted in the society, more or less, but if a game have sex, there is a lot of polemic. Just this as example: this is only a debate, an idea for an unfinished game, and look at that. Yes! People scares about sex, violence is MUCH more accepted, and if you are trying to say that that's not true, we have nothing more to talk.

2- The purpose, for umpteenth time, it's immersion. Why you should see explicit violence? And, this could seem that I'm against this. I love violence, in games or tv. But, yes, why you should see explicit violence? If you CAN have relationships, if you CAN go to a brothel with a prostitute, its immersive to see the scenes. I repeat you a lot of times, but you WON'T accept the answers. You just read "i want it", and it's not "i want it", its about "this is a reaction of this" -> sex scenes is a reaction about romances. You don't like that? OK! But don't say you haven't read any argument. I'm not dodging anything. Is you who don't want to read.

3- Man, I don't care what you want to think. I just tell my vision of the sex role in a game with romances, and in a distopic cyberpunk future (if you have seen Blade Runner you should understand what I want to say). A lot of tv series have sex scenes and people don't masturbate as crazy monkeys. I don't know if you do. If we want more realism it means all of us are compulsive masturbaters? I love little details. I love immersion. I'm in a six years relationship with my gf. I'm not just a puritan.

 

[Snowflakez]

It doesn't need to serve a purpose. Full stop. There are many things in games that "don't serve a purpose." I gave you several examples of them already. You gave me a vague statement about how they "serve the world" or "help with word-building," but that's incredibly subjective, and again, why are you the one who gets to decide what does and doesn't serve the world?

I'd really like an answer to that.

One of the reasons people may not be super eager to discuss things with you is because you seem (seem) to believe you're right and force everyone else to justify/convince/whatever their opinions. I'm not trying to attack you, we are all here to have a pleasant discussion, but certain attitudes make that incredibly difficult. Please let me know if I've somehow misunderstood.

People have given you several reasons already for wanting what they want in the game. You don't have to agree with those reasons, that's the whole point of a discussion. That's why the term "agree to disagree" exists. You just don't deem their answers satisfactory.

For the record, as I said, I have no dog in this fight. I don't care about what form the sex takes so long as it's in. So, no stance here. I'm just not a big fan of how this discussion is being conducted.

 

[Sardukhar]

So here's a few things I'm tired of seeing here and don't want to see anymore, from anyone:

People telling each other how they think or feel or putting the onus on the other person to live up to their standards of argument/explanation. Do not use words like "strawman" - it's not helpful and it's not clear, especially to non English speakers.

Do not repeat your arguments. If the other person is not getting it or doesn't want to, MOVE ON.

Do not take offense. There is no battle to be fought here and the Devs are not going to make their decision based on this thread.

Ask yourself what purpose is served by debating. Are you having fun? Is the other person? Are you being kind and respectful as per Rule 1? If NOT, then stop. If you DO NOT STOP, you will be gone.

 

[Tree_Fox]

A third person or first person sex scene would probably be the best. I'd lean towards third person as first person would be very disorienting, as sex that's fun to watch is moving around a lot and fairly chaotic.

Anything that's interactive, or a minigame, or full-on pornographic, would give this game an X rating instead of an M. I don't think CPPR is aiming to go there with this game.

PG13 and fading to black seems childish in a game with a mature theme. I mean, the people that buy the game are mature enough to handle killing other "people" but aren't mature enough to see naked bodies? C'mon.

 

[xer21]

Anything that's interactive, or a minigame, or full-on pornographic, would give this game an X rating instead of an M. I don't think CPPR is aiming to go there with this game.

.

I mean, they literally can't go there if they want to make enough money to justify the production costs. I really don't understand why they even included that as an option.