Sexism in the Witcher Series [SPOILERS]

[EmperorZorn]

Spoiler

Time for a Saskia joke, to lighten the mood:

Q: Why is Saskia so mad ?
A: ...because she broke a scale when she stepped on it.

..ahahaha... get it ? ...ah...ha..... *tumbleweed* ..ok, fine !

 

[wichat]

Spoiler

Time for a Saskia joke, to lighten the mood:

Q: Why is Saskia so mad ?
A: ...because she broke a scale when she stepped on it.

..ahahaha... get it ? ...ah...ha..... *tumbleweed* ..ok, fine !

New avatar? Sexist avatar! !!!

I like it, beauty Ciri ;P

 

[EmperorZorn]

New avatar? Sexist avatar! !!!

I like it, beauty Ciri ;P

I could draw her a gentlemen mustache, it 'd look less sexist.
But more disturbing.

Oh, back to topic...

 

[dragonbird]

Anyway, back (almost) on-topic. And, specifically, regarding Saskia's cleavage

Spoiler

In previous incarnations of this topic, has anyone ever remarked on the fact that when she turns from dragon to human, she's instantly fully-dressed? The armour is apparently not really clothing, but is part of her body, metamorphosed scales. And we know her weak spot is over her heart, so I guess that clears up the issue of why she doesn't have armour there

 

[StaGiors]

Anyway, back (almost) on-topic. And, specifically, regarding Saskia's cleavage

Spoiler

In previous incarnations of this topic, has anyone ever remarked on the fact that when she turns from dragon to human, she's instantly fully-dressed? The armour is apparently not really clothing, but is part of her body, metamorphosed scales. And we know her weak spot is over her heart, so I guess that clears up the issue of why she doesn't have armour there

Spoiler

I would assume she is instantly fully dressed for reasons of decency and NOT-sexism. I mean imagine healing Saskia to find her running around naked in the field..
But Borch in the books was never found running around naked either so I think you are right here.

 

[dragonbird]

Pretty sure a signficant number of players can imagine that all too well, and would have been more than happy with the realistic portrayal of those moments.

So the way it was actually shown isn't quite consistent with the cleavage being fanservice/sexist though, is it?

 

[StaGiors]

Pretty sure a signficant number of players can imagine that all too well, and would have been more than happy with the realistic portrayal of those moments.

So the way it was actually shown isn't quite consistent with the cleavage being fanservice/sexist though, is it?

Ha this might be the first time ever that someone said that "cleavage-showing" is video games is not at all sexist

 

[dragonbird]

Actually, I've never considered cleavage to be sexist. I consider the comment "She's showing her cleavage, it makes her like a whore" to be a lot more sexist than the cleavage itself.

I'm a firm believer that equality means that a woman has the right to show cleavage if she chooses to do so. Of course, that doesn't QUITE translate to video games, since it isn't the woman deciding, but those who designed her. But the principle still applies.

However, bikini armour is another matter entirely.

Edit: A bit of synchronicity here, given this, and the earlier comments about Lara Croft not being as sexist as The Witcher. This just came up in my newsfeed:
http://boingboing.net/2014/06/03/if-lara-croft-were-a-man.html

 

[Lieste]

Agree on the bikini armour thing. Female armour, where it existed was identical in form to male armour, with a single smooth 3d 'belly' from gorget to groin. This is to 'turn' weapons and to prevent them biting into joins. There certainly is little point in ignoring upper chest and neck armour (where wounds are dangerous) in order to show off boobies.

Fully armoured a woman warrior would not look very different at all to a similarly sized male. Only with the removal of armour would the differences be apparent.

Showing cleavage does seem to have been a fashion staple for much of recorded history to some degree or other in more relaxed circumstances and high fashion. (There have been brief tight-arse periods, but they don't seem to last long before the puppies are out again).

 

[wichat]

Ok she was not a Dragon, but a warrior-she

I mean, there's no need to be sexy to become a firm and respected leader. And this is the point that brings me the inconsistency between CDPR's philosophy about mature story and warrior women in the general male imaginary.

 

[EmperorZorn]

Ok she was not a Dragon, but a warrior-she

I mean, there's no need to be sexy to become a firm and respected leader. And this is the point that brings me the inconsistency between CDPR's philosophy about mature story and warrior women in the general male imaginary.

That is a wonderful example, Witchat.
It shows that even a thick armor can't lock away the beauty and grace of a woman.
And it proves we don't need those warrior-bikinis~

To make things clear: there is nothing wrong with showing skin,
it just shouldn't be part of an armor meant to protect ones skin.

 

[StaGiors]

Well indeed bikini armors are quite silly, and yes even sexist but I don't understand what the problem is with Saskia. And why the hell can't women dress sexy in video games, since they also do in real life too if they choose so. It's not like all women in TW dress like sorceresses. I remember a certain Anezka who had a very different appearance than that of a sorceress, and I have to say that she was a pretty interesting female character. Regarding sorceresses, Sapkowski explains in his book quite crudely that sorceresses dress sexy to have more influence over men, who appear to forget everything and submit to women's decisions like mindless fools (not that far from the truth I might add).
About Saskia's cleavage I can only say that I really like @Dragonbird's explanation though it must seem unlikely to alot of people. But I can't really see why we pay such attention to this issue, I think we are really overreacting over the armor, but that's just me..
Anyway

 

[gregski]

I got this feeling like Saskia's example was always considered in context of male designer envisioning her that way, like "OMG some sexist guy from CDPR designed her armor that way OMG Witcher 2 is sexist OMG!". But what if it was Saskia herself? I mean, maybe the artists treat their characters as entities with "their own will" that start living their own little lives inside the artist's head after some time - just like writers sometimes do? What if, one day, Saskia said: "Fuck it, if I am supposed to sweat in this shitty armor, at least make it a little bit more feminine, will you".

 

[wichat]

Well...
Official version:

10.Can women go on submarines?

Women are not currently assigned to submarine crews because of the very limited habitability and privacy onboard a submarine. However, women have been on submarines for short durations as civilian technicians for specialized equipment testing, family members for one-day dependent cruises, and female midshipmen conducting two-day orientation cruises.

The most heard version:

Women distract men

And 5 May 2014 Last updated at 02:48 GMT Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

But if you argue about beuatiful women in sexy clothes in video games are OK let me ask for men in sexy clothes too. Because it's a long time ago women also are good users of videogames (not simcities at all)

I don't care is Saskia shows her skin, but she doesn't need wear this armour to get non-humans listen her and follow her blindly (I don't thing non-humans are so primitive, I rather believe their are mature people who don't need any kind of view of skin to follow a great leader), I find inmature to portrait a warrior leader like a sexy barbie in a game which devs always say that they want portrait a realistic and grey world... not a fanboy legendary sexy dragon. Sexy armours in WarHammer? OK. In TW?.... not easy to me find its room in it. On the contrary with Sorceresses, they use their looks to the limit, so here sexy dressed are versemblants.

This is the only black sheep I found in TW2.

But THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION

@gregski Of course, she has the right to wear sexy, but for the battle? OMG where is her sanity as a warrior who hide her dragon nature?

 

[gregski]

Of course, she has the right to wear sexy, but for the battle? OMG where is her sanity as a warrior who hide her dragon nature?

Well, that's the point, half-woman half-dragon and we're expecting her to be sane!?

 

[Jupiter_on_Mars]

.

 

[StaGiors]

I might get hated for this but oh well..
If it suits the mans character to dress sexy, I don't see why he shouldn't be portrayed as such in TW. But you have to bear in mind that men very rarely, if ever , dressed sexy in medieval times. I'm sure Iorveth fell in love with Saskia, mainly because of her character and because the world she believed in had space for elves and other rejects of the society, not because of her cleavage, so that's why the elves followed Saskia. I really can't argue about the armor, other than supporting the dragon scales idea. But it's how I choose to view it because I really do not think CDPR put Saskia in that armor simply to get more "boys" to play the game.
Oh, and I really do respect your opinion even if it might be a bit different than mine, I'm just trying to have a friendly conversation

 

[Vincentdante]

With everyone talking about Lara Croft and the Tomb Raider games, I just want to say I really like Tomb Raider (the originals on the PS1 that is). Not because of how the character looks but because I find it a genuinely enjoyable platfomer/puzzle game, and yeah I think Lara was a good character in her own right. Especially as they started filling out her backstory in TR: Last Revelation and finally TR: Chronicles. Is it really so wrong to like it?

On topic post, I don't think sex appeal is necessarily sexist but I can see how it might alienate a certain crowed. Then again you play something like Final Fantasy and it is the men in the skimpy costumes, and as a male gamer I know that didn't stop me from playing it so each to their own I guess on that subject.

 

[wichat]

Well, that's the point, half-woman half-dragon and we're expecting her to be sane!?

But she IS NOT half-human. She is a dragon metamorphosed in wosman shape who hide her nature. Dargons are not insane... usually

 

[wichat]

That's not a man... is a child