Sexism in the Witcher Series [SPOILERS]

+
I think you're being selective in your choices of character here. What about Sile, Philippa, Saskia, Cynthia? They all "act", and all drive the plot forward. Each of them is working just as hard as any of the major male NPC's to change the world. Geralt acts to save Iorveth (possibly twice), Dandelion, Roche's men, Cedric when they're in distress. (Although he fails to find Cedric on time). The quest to save Saskia from the curse is similar in context to saving Henselt, so are they both damsels in distress? Henselt doesn't have a noble death, neither does Stennis or Dethmold.
 
The fact that so many female gamers have said so many times that they consider the Witcher sexist, while games like Tomb Rider or anything by Bioware are empowering to them, should be enough of a clue that something's wrong with the portrayal of female characters in the witcher games, which isn't there in some other games, even if it's hard to pinpoint what that is, precisely.

And many other female gamers have said that they don't consider The Witcher sexist, while finding Lara Croft and BioWare female characters bland. A lot of people prefer Lil Wayne to Mozart, but that means very little in terms of music quality.

As much as I love the games, I can't help but notice a certain pattern in the portrayal of male characters, compared to female characters, which I don't like very much. The problem isn't with them being sexual or discriminated against in their society, but in the role they play in the plot and how it compares to that played by male characters.

When male protagonists suffer, they do so in a way that makes them look impressive and tough, not pitful and humiliated (compare Geralt's torture in the prologue with that of Mary Luise La Valette). When they die, they die a noble, respectable death (compare Aryan La Valette's death, or Cedric's death, to that of any of the female characters in the game)). When they're wronged in some way, they take a bloody revenge (compare Roche, or Geralt, to Ves). Male characters are not only capable of protecting themselves just fine, but also able to protect others (compare any of the male protagonists in the witcher to any of the female protagonists). With the exception of villainesses, male characters actively drive the plot. Female characters don't act, they react. For majority of the game, plot happens as a result of Geralt, Roche, Iorveth and Letho's actions. Female characters are either incapacitated in some way for large parts of the game, or stand aside, waiting for male characters to do something they can react to. With Triss kidnapped, Ves raped and gone, and Saskia poisoned, while none of the male characters got the same treatment, I had the impression that the reason for this was that the writers just didn't know what to do with female characters and looked for ideas to quietly remove them from the plot.

Mary Louisa signs that document just like Aryan. Her torture is much more gruesome than Geralt's so it's not really a fair comparison. Another female character that is being tortured, Sabrina, casts a powerful curse that halts an entire expedition and nearly kills Henselt while burning alive. Wouldn't say that's either humiliating or pitiful. That also covers the bloody revenge part (not sure how bloody revenge paints any character in a positive light but we'll roll with it).

Saskia dies as noble a death as that of Aryan - slain by a witcher, if you decide to that to them. Saskia is also responsible for the protection of Vergen, so not only is she capable of protecting herslef but an entire nation, in the face Aedirn. Even the prince is forced to recognise her, even if he doesn't like it. Shani is willing to give her life away for her patients. Triss fights off Azar's men that are there for Alvin, even if the boy eventually teleports away. She saves Geralt after his fight against the Professor and Javed at the swamp tower.

Saskia as well as Triss are central to the plot, and not among the villainesses. Without Triss' actions, Geralt would never have gotten to meet with Leuvaarden, he'd probably be left for dead at the swamp. Without Saskia dueling Henselt, the Blood Curse would not have been activated - that's the entire plot of Chapter 2. Triss being present at the Loc Muinne meeting changes the course of the talks, her actions result in the Council and Conclave being reestablished instead of a pogrom against mages.

Triss is only not present in 1/3 of the game. Iorveth or Roche get 1/3, depending on whose path you choose. Saskia gets poisoned, while Henselt is under a Blood Curse. After that Saskia lives and is present at Loc Muinne, while you can kill Henselt and end his part in the story. Ves is not a major character. Just like Fenn isn't. Fenn gets hanged at the point where Ves is raped. I don't know about you, but death seems a bit more drastic than rape to me. Judging by how central sorceresses and Saskia are to the plot, I somehow doubt that the writers had no idea what to do with female characters.

Finally, I don't understand why you're so quick to exclude 'the villainesses,' as you call them, from the discussion. Every single character in The Witcher is flawed and driven by their own motives. Roche is perfectly fne with murdering and torturing people. Iorveth's a terrorist. The Sorceresses are as much villains as those guys are - they're after more power for mages, while Iorveth's seeking the same for elves, and Roche - for Temeria. Just because Geralt is useful to them does not make them the good guys. They're bad people. Even Geralt - the main character - is not perfect, nor are his friends, but that's what makes them feel real. I don't believe that CDPR's goal is to make anyone feel like their characters are 'empowering' to people, regardless of their gender. Whereas BioWare games are - they're the very definition of a power fantasy. But the fact that CDPR are trying to avoid this does not make their games sexist.
 
Last edited:
Male characters are not only capable of protecting themselves just fine, but also able to protect others (compare any of the male protagonists in the witcher to any of the female protagonists).

To add this little part to @ReptilePZ post:

It was Triss who projected a shield around everyone in TW2, she alone protected them from the arrows while the men were helpless without her barrier.

Does this count as sexism against men ? Of course not.
Because only people who think in extremes would arrive to that conclusion.
 
Oh, and while Ves may need to be rescued on Roche path, she's the one who kills those about to execute Geralt when he's captured by the Nilfgaardians on Iorveth path.
 
The fact that so many female gamers have said so many times that they consider the Witcher sexist, while games like Tomb Rider or anything by Bioware are empowering to them, should be enough of a clue that something's wrong with the portrayal of female characters in the witcher games, which isn't there in some other games, even if it's hard to pinpoint what that is, precisely.

First of all, can you provide statistics for that supposed fact about many female gamers? Without it, this statement simply looks like "appeal to the people" fallacy.

Second, there is one difference between Bioware/Tomb Raider games, and TW2 - it is that TW2 does not have an option of female protagonist. But if this is a reason some people may believe that TW2 is sexist, the same reason would be to claim that Tomb Raider games discriminate again men, and thus as guilty of gender discrimination as TW2.

So I would say who protagonist is is simply irrelevant to the game being sexist or not sexist. Concerning all other characters in, for example, ME series, they are mostly there to serve our heroic cyber-Jesus/St. Mary Sheppard. Sure, they have their quests, but none of them has any agenda separate from Sheppard's agenda. It is nowhere near all the complexity of motivation in TW2, where no one character is simply Geralt's servant or a side-kick.

Also I would take Philippa, with all her complexity, ingenuity, and influence on the flow of events, over ANY female character in any video-game ever created. Feminists should paint TW2 logo and Philipa's portrait on their frigging banners, especially given that it was pretty much the motivation behind the creation of the Lodge of Sorceresses to begin with.
 
Last edited:
Regarding the aspect of it being somehow more desirable, as a female, to play a female protagonist, I'll give the same reply as I've given in other similar threads.

My own gender doesn't limit me any more than my species limits me. If I can role-play as an elf, or a dwarf, or a furry, or an alien, then I shouldn't have problems role-playing as a man.

(And "so many" women consider it sexist because some website tells them that it is, and readers, of both sexes, don't necessarily apply critical judgement when they're told something that they want to believe.)
 
Last edited:
I think the aspect of "empowering" is something some gamers are after. I.e. creating a perfect unrealistic character, aka Mary Sue (don't be confused by the name, it applies both to female and male characters). There is nothing wrong with people deciding to do that if they want for their own characters, but it's wrong to project such interest on games which avoid it because they belong to the realism genre. If you don't like the realism (in a literary sense) - Witcher isn't for you. There are plenty of games which have ridiculously powerful characters without any flaws. That's not the point of the Witcher.
 
There was a great quote I heard from one of the devs at BioWare - that if you gave people a box of infinite power, that could fulfill any and every wish and was the key to pure happiness, people would complain about the colour of the box.

My point is, everyone complains about something. I've actually found more male hoopla about how "sexist" the Witcher is than female. Reading through the complaints, it seems that the main argument is that several female characters have undesirable traits or merely "react" to the plot. Which, well, isn't that what Geralt is doing? You influence the story, of course, but you do not control it. Other characters around you create a multitude of situations you simply have to react to (and .: influence), like the battle of Vergen, Foltest's death, and the uprising of the Squirrels, to name a few.

And again, have you seen the male characters in the game? Henselt and Dethmold and Loredo and Adalbert and Stennis are all horrible people. Not to mention the countless other more minor characters who are rather shady. Why do their flaws/weaknesses get a pass but the female characters' don't?
 
...if you gave people a box of infinite power, that could fulfill any and every wish and was the key to pure happiness, people would complain about the colour of the box.

Too true. :hatsoff:

Also, you don't advance any cause by being careful not to offend anybody at all. You'll only water down your message.

Geralt and Zoltan said it better than I can when they discussed what role witchers could have in a world of law-abiding evil: The Witcher games take a moral stand as strong as old Lebioda himself. It's not about Triss being portrayed as weak and a victim; it's about how Geralt finds out about her being kidnapped, and how he resolves his responsibilities to his friends and to the greater good. It's not about Saskia being a victim and the object of a "lesbomancy" joke, it's about how Philippa used her in a power grab and how Geralt uncovers her plot.
 
Why exactly? Death is final, you don't come back from that. You don't get a more acute experience than that.
BTW, whost the necromonger of this thread?
 
Last edited:
I edited my post, alas, posts appeared...

...ok, I'll bite. Are we talking about the game being sexist, or the game world being sexist? That are TWO different pairs of wellingtons my friends. While the first is not the case the former is outrightly correct and rightly so.
We, the gamers of both sexes, be it biological or imaginary, accept and love this tone in the witcher series. That is why we are here. Dis-&-cussing, sometimes

But whats outmost important, apart of sexism, mysoginism, brutality, gore even, inhumanity, cruelty, betrayal, praying on the weak, racism, barbarism and other filthy features of the rotten world and society you can find, more so precious, love, friendship, honour, bravery, innocence, selflessness, self-sacrifice, rightousness, prudence, justice, caregiving, empathy, kindness, compassion...
Uff, try to read that in one breath :D But you get the drift I hope.

Saying and describing witcher setting only as sexist is unfair while labeling the game sexist is an error and a grave transgression... but we are only humans, we have a right to err, right? ;D
 
I am a female gamer and I never thought that TW2 is a sexist game. On the contrary, is very according the lore of Spakowski's wordls where female charaters are just another being human, strong or weak, liar or honest, powerful or beggarly, stupid or badass, noble-minded or abject, man or woman.

But I always think that a very few female armour is sexist by its a warlike incongruence AND THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION which can never and ever labels this great game as sexist.
 
But I always think that a very few female armour is sexist by its a warlike incongruence AND THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION which can never and ever labels this great game as sexist.

I'm guessing you are referring to Saskia's armor :p

But what happens when she turns into a dragon though? I mean you gotta have some freedom to move
 
But you have given me mental images of a dragon trying to squeeze into Saskia's armour and and checking herself out in the mirror to make sure everything looks good... :p

(And "so many" women consider it sexist because some website tells them that it is, and readers, of both sexes, don't necessarily apply critical judgement when they're told something that they want to believe.)

Yup, this has been my experience (though I'll add CDPR's marketing doesn't do much to convince them otherwise). A lot of women I've managed to convert ran out and got the books because they liked the games so much. :]
 
Top Bottom