Should certain Roles be eliminated?

[rmtuggle]

How do we keep all the roles present and account for them doing what they do? It all goes back to the Lifepath. I would like to remind the ladies and gentlemen of the Thread that the question of a character being employed in 2020 was a matter of the toss of the dice, unless you had a very generous GM. Role reflected how your character had been making their living up to the point of game start. Then, there towards the end of character creation, a decision was made..via a roll of the dice or something similar...to determine whether or not your character was still employed.

So, instead of just looking at which Roles are easiest to play...think about how you would play them if your character had spent years in that profession but was suddenly in the line for day old kibble? How long can you stretch your savings, make the best use of liquid assets...and what would you do to regain your previous standings and standard of living? It brings a whole new level to game-play when you are faced with your Corp suddenly finding himself living in a coffin at the airport and eating kibble three times a day.

To that end, I would suggest a choice...be employed or not, or leave it to a simple 50/50 random generator to decide for you.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

So, instead of just looking at which Roles are easiest to play...think about how you would play them if your character had spent years in that profession but was suddenly in the line for day old kibble? How long can you stretch your savings, make the best use of liquid assets...and what would you do to regain your previous standings and standard of living? It brings a whole new level to game-play when you are faced with your Corp suddenly finding himself living in a coffin at the airport and eating kibble three times a day.

Love it!

 

[wisdom000]

How do we keep all the roles present and account for them doing what they do? It all goes back to the Lifepath. I would like to remind the ladies and gentlemen of the Thread that the question of a character being employed in 2020 was a matter of the toss of the dice, unless you had a very generous GM. Role reflected how your character had been making their living up to the point of game start. Then, there towards the end of character creation, a decision was made..via a roll of the dice or something similar...to determine whether or not your character was still employed.

So, instead of just looking at which Roles are easiest to play...think about how you would play them if your character had spent years in that profession but was suddenly in the line for day old kibble? How long can you stretch your savings, make the best use of liquid assets...and what would you do to regain your previous standings and standard of living? It brings a whole new level to game-play when you are faced with your Corp suddenly finding himself living in a coffin at the airport and eating kibble three times a day.

To that end, I would suggest a choice...be employed or not, or leave it to a simple 50/50 random generator to decide for you.

Not the best argument to make... since some Roles, such as Cop and Corp, are completely dependent on the character being employed.

A cop who loses his job, doesn't get to use authority anymore, because he doesn't have any. A corp who gets fired can't call down to R&D to requisition something, because there is no one to call...

Which brings us back to square one. Should those roles be eliminated?

 

[TheCybersmily]

Not the best argument to make... since some Roles, such as Cop and Corp, are completely dependent on the character being employed.

A cop who loses his job, doesn't get to use authority anymore, because he doesn't have any. A corp who gets fired can't call down to R&D to requisition something, because there is no one to call...

Which brings us back to square one. Should those roles be eliminated?

Cops can still use authority to an extent. They know the law and what they can and can't do, with or without a badge. Granted a badge helps, but combined with a fast talk & persuasion, the mark might not know. If it walks like a pig and snorts like one, then it must be one.

For corporates, it is difficult. to justify. Though a corp could use his SA to help network with other corporates. If you think of corporates as the fixers of the "haves". Then they can kind of work the system with wheeling and dealing.

 

[videopete]

I would prefer a skill tree / point system that will allow to go in every direction with some limitations/features:
1. Limited number of points would be a natural limiter.
2. Additinal rules between skills would not allow to go above certain levels. For instance you would be able to max only one tree (primary Role), but achieve considerable level in two other trees (secondary Role).
3. Quest lines would take into consideration your balance of skills.
4. Rockerboy should be a valid primary Role as most of us agree CP77 should have a non-lethal playthrough option.

That's not how the pnp game works at all. When you create a character, you have your role ablility, proffession skills, and pick up skills. You can get other skills but that requires you to find a means of learning it, whether from a book or a teacher, or observing some one else. Some of the harder skills this might make it highly difficult to learn. The way leveling up works is there are no levels, skills grow through use or teaching, there is a limit. Teaching is a skill, so better teachers are highly skilled. A teacher with a teaching of 10 and a Spanish of 2 can only raise your Spanish up to 2, that's right a teacher can only teach you at best to be as good as her. Then you get direct IP, ussually for specific skills that you used during the game. The more important the skill and use of it the more IP you get. Finally there is general IP which can be spent any way you desire the only catch being, that you must already possess the skill in question.


Aside from cybernetics and equipment up grades this was the only way to improve your guy. Btw you never got more HP as time whent on, you just learner the value of SP, cover, and playing smart. Also stacking armour and how to abuse it.

 

[Žymantūnas]

I think that every role should be in game because it would be more faithful to cp2020, but their gameplay should be different, for example shooting roles theoretically survive on their own because they have guns, gunless roles should be more team based because they can't survive without team or guns.

 

[cyborgironside]

While were here back at this thread I will point out that in the reveal video they stated that they were not going to announce which classes will be in the game just yet. hard core indication that not all classes will be in 77.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think that every class should be in game because it would be more faithful to cp2020, but their gameplay should be different, for example shooting classes theoretically survive on their own because they have guns, gunless classes should be more team based because they can't survive without team or guns.

What gunless classes? It's Cyberpunk, not Final Fantasy.

The Roles in the core rulebook were:
Cop, Corporate, Fixer, Media, MedTech, Netrunner, Nomad, Rockerboy, Solo and Techie.

Everyone could use guns, though some didn't get the skills as part of their role package, but they could still get some at character creation with 'Pickup' skill points. The only role not allowed to use guns were listed in the Pacific Rim sourcebook if I remember right.

 

[Žymantūnas]

^ fixed. and your way is good as well.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

I think roles like Corporate and Rockerboy should definitely not be eliminated considering that this is a unique RPG which has the potential to have roles which are not just about shooting things down.

The roles mentioned above would allow a different kind of gameplay as yet underdeveloped in modern RPGs- being able to play by "talking". Playing a game which utilizes social aspects in a story-based, single player mode will be interesting and novel, and CP77 is primed to capitalize on this concept if only it develops the unique aspects of the aforementioned roles in meaningful ways.

Not to mention, the two roles I listed are inherently unique to the world of CP2020, so I can't imagine a video game in this same world without being able to play them; honestly, it would feel fake.

I'm new to the world of CP2020, but I think the following roles are indispensable: Cop, Netrunner, Solo, Corp, Rockerboy, and even Nomad.

I think Solo, Cop and Netrunner will definitely be in the game because the first two are roles which are likely to have mass appeal, and the last one would work for this game because it's about cyber stuff and shit.

The remaining three are hard to implement, but they are so uniquely cyberpunk that it's hard to ignore them.

Personally, I'm not bothered with Fixer, Media or Techie because I think the most definitive and enjoyable elements of these roles can be incorporated into other roles, namely Solo/Corp, Cop/Rockerboy, and Solo/Netrunner.

My only real desire is to play a Corp, but I would hate to see Rockerboy or Nomad missing from the options as well because these roles could have really cool gameplay options. Essentially, it would only make sense to add a role if the gameplay options for it are different and inherently unique relative to those of other roles, but I just dislike the idea of a cyberpunk game without Corp, Rockerboy or Nomad in it. Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[cyborgironside]

Realizing the limited game allowance for the roles that CDPR can incorporate into a playable game I'am completely flexible in my desire for certain roles.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Personally, I'm not bothered with Fixer, Media or Techie because I think the most definitive and enjoyable elements of these roles can be incorporated into other roles, namely Solo/Corp, Cop/Rockerboy, and Solo/Netrunner.

How the hell do you come to this conclusion?

Fixers are THE buyers, sellers and brokers of the Cyberpunk world. They know everone and everyone knows them. They arrange the work, they find the gear and they fence the loot. Now sure, other roles can do theese things, but that is like saying that other roles can fire guns so they make Solos redundant.

Techies are the Technology based role. Sure, Netrunners may know a lot about computers and data, but most wont have a clue what to do when the Solos big ass gun falls to bits from over use and lack of maintainance. They also wont know how to hotwire the getaway vehicle or disable the electronic security at the entry point because its isolated from the Net. I love being a Techie!

Media are a tricky role, thats for sure. They weren't the easiest to handle in the PnP either. But, they are not the sam as a Rockerboy or a Cop. Now, I know the Rockerboy role is based on the Grunge scene, which in turn was based on music founded upon REAL hardship and pain. Yet they just remind me of Emo kids now, pissed at the world because Daddy didn't buy them a pony for their 8th Birthday and they want the world to feel sorry for them.

The fact remains that each and every role has a deep and sophisticated outlook and playstyle which can potentially provide a truely unique outlook upon the dystopian future. Yet having 10 roles, (Because Med Tech may as well be a unique role as it shares next to no skills with Techie anyway,) is far too much. Also, Netrunners would end up spending all their time in the Net, so that isn't really viable gameplay when the rest of a team is on the frontline miles away.

The way I see it, the only legitimate option is to breakdown all the roles and treat them as a 'starting package' with or without special abilities. Perhaps even treat special abilities like other games treat 'perks'. This would require a whole new mechanic for Netrunning so that all roles could do it. It is the ultimate leveler.

 

[wisdom000]

walks in... looks around.... backs out slowly....

 

[cyborgironside]

walks in... looks around.... backs out slowly....

Pretty sure that the Nomad class will make it in, although they might have to adjust the class a bit to fit into the main stream Night City type of Nomad.

Maybe a car mechanic with affiliations to a small gang or something.

 

[Sardukhar]

". Now, I know the Rockerboy role is based on the Grunge scene"

Whut? CP2020 and 2013 written in and mostly about the 80s. Not the 90s, Chris. I wouldn't say Rockerboy is based on grunge at all. Have you -seen- those costumes? Bandannas! Open shirts and collars! That hair!

Also Nomads are gone. Because.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

@ ChrisWebb: Uh, I'm just postulating. The important aspect of any role is the skills it uses, and I'm just saying it's possible to incorporate some skills from an eliminated role into the ones which are kept because certain roles are close in the type of things they are likely to do; it seems possible for some Corp type to get their hands into Media stuff, It's possible for a Solo to get into shady Fixer business, etc.

Also, I don't know if its just your bias, but you made it seem like Techie is the more versatile role relative to Netrunner. I don't have any attachment to either role, I just think the ones with the more versatile gameplay options are likely to be seen.

As much as I like Corp, it doesn't seem very versatile either, and I only like the idea of it, but I'm not sure if it'll be very fun to play; the Cop or Solo options seem like the ones where you would get the most out of the cyberpunk world, so I'd rather pick those, honestly.

Finally, realize that I don't work for CDPR so it does not make sense to be sensitive about what I'm saying.

 

[blank_redge]

I'm not bothered with Fixer, Media or Techie because I think the most definitive and enjoyable elements of these roles can be incorporated into other roles...

Edison Carter disagrees with you.

 

[Sardukhar]

By GOD, we'll be sensitive with whoever we want!

Who is Edison Carter?

 

[wisdom000]

By GOD, we'll be sensitive with whoever we want!

Who is Edison Carter?

That is so very disappointing....

 

[LexiiO]

Which brings us to Rocker. This would be by far the most difficult class to bring into a game. It would require a detailed mechanic complete with concerts and band practices... Which would also mean it would require songs be written to be played by the character and his band. It would require a storyline not only dealing with the musical exploits of the character, but also of promoting themselves as musicians. As with the other Roles that should be dropped or made secondary, but more more so, there is no way to implement a rocker boy as the main protagonist into the same story missions a Solo main protagonist would undertake without becoming unbelievably trite and silly. It would only be extremely disappointing for both classes, or become a cartoon parody of them.

So Rockerboy should really just be dropped altogether. It doesn't even make sense as a secondary class.

Just read this for the first time.

I always thought of the Rockerboys as some classic sort of rocker punks. Yes, also rockers can be punks. Think of these Hell's Angels, that's what comes to my mind when I think about this class in a videogame. The Hells Angels Gang basically is nothing but a organized gang of punks. It actually really surprises me that you as the uberfan think of Rockerboys as you do here. Concerts? What the fudge? Not in the game, that's for sure.

I instead think of very brute, organized gang criminals on floating motorbikes roaming the wasteland, similar to the Nomads.