No Nomad? And I for one would really prefer to not lose the Corporate.
I couldn't give a damn about the Rockerboy and I think Netrunner could be made into an 'omni-role' option.
No Nomad? And I for one would really prefer to not lose the Corporate.
I couldn't give a damn about the Rockerboy and I think Netrunner could be made into an 'omni-role' option.
I'd prefer all roles to be eliminated (aside from using them as a helpful template to help new people to the system choose appropriate skills). Roles should become titles, or job descriptions.
I don't know about you, but I didn't choose a role when I was created, I just gained skills and then have goals I'd like to complete.
After all, why couldn't a corporate have started out as a netrunner, Or a rocker started out as a techi, or a cop started out as a solo, etc.
I don't know about you, but I didn't choose a role when I was created, I just gained skills and then have goals I'd like to complete.
After all, why couldn't a corporate have started out as a netrunner, Or a rocker started out as a techi, or a cop started out as a solo, etc.
Roles are not gained when we are created. They are the careers we choose. I have trained to be a cop, gone through the police academy. Have trained to be a medtech, paramedic. I, and most other GMs allow multiple roles, and learning new roles as the game progresses. Interlock even implemented a way to switch roles in supplements. Hopefully the computer game will also.
Damn it. I just found a good reason for Rockerboys...
Desperado.
Desperado.
Ha-ha!
Although that's really a kid trained as a performer who is a natural Solo. You see him make all this A/N and Init checks like crazy? Yeah.
Natural Solo? I don't think we say the same version of the film...
[video=youtube;rF-o1asRrxI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-o1asRrxI[/video]
Have you seen how he holds those handguns? When he actually aims, less tha half his shots actually hit hit the target, he 'flicks' those guns around when he's taking shots, (2:28 in the youtube clip,) and he uses almost two full mags to take out one guy in a room with over 12 hostiles.
He is a musician who fliped.
[video=youtube;rF-o1asRrxI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-o1asRrxI[/video]
Have you seen how he holds those handguns? When he actually aims, less tha half his shots actually hit hit the target, he 'flicks' those guns around when he's taking shots, (2:28 in the youtube clip,) and he uses almost two full mags to take out one guy in a room with over 12 hostiles.
He is a musician who fliped.
This is a long post so...you've been warned.
It really depends how they handle the skills, I don't want roles to be in the game if it means skill locking. Or skills specific to classes, every character should have ability to choose any skill they want. In fact I hope they improve the system so that if you focus on one set of skills it opens up special options for you. Different skills should provide synergy to each other other. A player focusing only on gun combat, might get the option to buy specialized weapon rounds, or get quick draw when combat begins giving them ability to gun people down revolver ocelot style. While a player who wants to focus on gun and talking options might get the ability to taunt enemies in combat lowering their effectiveness in combat, or demoralize them so badly they run away.
With skill synergy, I hope they eliminate some of the arbitrary skills that often show up in PnP games. Stream line the skill system to be extremely rewarding for player choices.
They could have in game character back grounds, where players could choose from the roles then go into back ground details. Then have these choices show up in the game. So if a player chooses to be a nomad they might get to choose what type of gang they come from, which might determine if certain city factions are hostile or friendly to you. It could go even further by allowing player to choose if they want to have living family, which would be cool if we could have family profiles so we can choose what type of family we have. So player could set their uncle to be a crazed solo, brother to be a thrill seeking rockerboy, and cousin to be a fixer.
Just an idea but...
Lets say they implemented a skill called intuition, this skill gives the character details on environment and NPCs. So for NPC's it might give the player information on an NPC personality, if the person has any noticeable vices. This could be translated into additional conversation options, like telling if the person is lying or being able to charm them into doing what you want . This would be more along lines of a synergy bonus with conversation. It could also be used to open up combat options only available to some one with this skill, like being able to kill a enemy NPC groups leader to impart negative effects on other NPCS. Or have a synergy bonus with a tech skill to be able to target weak points in some ones cybernetic armor.
Environment wise it could be used to provide information on an area. You might get prompts that if you click bestows information on your character, so if they are looking at a crime scene they might be able to piece together what happened. Or notice special things in the environment.
Then have a media station that players can go to, maybe from their back ground. From their they can choose to do a news report on an event, where they choose different dialogue choices that determine if they want to tell the truth or lie. Then player characters have a credibility bar in game that changes depending on what they are doing. So if your considered credible the bar goes up, then maybe you get more money for your story. If you report with out enough facts, or aren't persuasive enough with your lies you might be found uncreditable.
This could lead to mini events like a rival journalist trying to pick apart your story, or corporations using their money to make some of your facts seem false. So if your not good at your job you could lose credibility. Or even get to the point that a corporation might send hit men after you. Negative credibility could start with a character getting deaths threats then escalate into full on random violence.
This approach could be used if your playing a cop, and you arrest some one. Your credibility could negate the need for allot of evidence in the arrest.
In this way they could have an in game skill that effects game play, but allow players the option to pretend to be cops or part of the media. Now for the second long part.
There could be a skill called performance. There are three types of places people can perform street, bar, and stage. Playing on the street doesn't cost the PC any thing, if you meet the area skill check you can get a random amount of money. If you play bad maybe you'll earn a rock instead. Bar requires the PC to pay a fee, but they get a hire amount of money randomly generated. Street and bar generate fame for your character, after you earn enough fame you can play on a stage where you get paid a flat fee plus generate a random amount of money.
With fame you might randomly get sent gifts, or maybe they could special NPC's that join you after you get a certain amount of fame. Random fans might help you in certain areas if you get into a fight.
Performance skill could synergize well with conversation skill, giving you better lyrics. Or make you more charming when dealing with NPC's. It could synergize with combat skills, allowing players special options of turning a guitar case into a weapon holder or be a concealed minigun. Or open up special noise weapons if you get a certain synergize with the tech skill.
Corporate and Fixer seem like they would be perfect to merge into one class. Both groups are connected people, options given to them would determine if they want to be legitimate businessmen or deal more on the black market. This I could see being more back ground related, as you might have a bunch of NPC's you periodically have to meet with. From them you get side missions that based on the results determine how well your business grows. So you might have NPC's sell weapons legally for you, or have them do it illegally for more money. With allot of room for in between.
Classes of cop and solo could be also merged into one. With branching side story of if you want to be a mercenary or work for the government.
It really depends how they handle the skills, I don't want roles to be in the game if it means skill locking. Or skills specific to classes, every character should have ability to choose any skill they want. In fact I hope they improve the system so that if you focus on one set of skills it opens up special options for you. Different skills should provide synergy to each other other. A player focusing only on gun combat, might get the option to buy specialized weapon rounds, or get quick draw when combat begins giving them ability to gun people down revolver ocelot style. While a player who wants to focus on gun and talking options might get the ability to taunt enemies in combat lowering their effectiveness in combat, or demoralize them so badly they run away.
With skill synergy, I hope they eliminate some of the arbitrary skills that often show up in PnP games. Stream line the skill system to be extremely rewarding for player choices.
They could have in game character back grounds, where players could choose from the roles then go into back ground details. Then have these choices show up in the game. So if a player chooses to be a nomad they might get to choose what type of gang they come from, which might determine if certain city factions are hostile or friendly to you. It could go even further by allowing player to choose if they want to have living family, which would be cool if we could have family profiles so we can choose what type of family we have. So player could set their uncle to be a crazed solo, brother to be a thrill seeking rockerboy, and cousin to be a fixer.
Just an idea but...
Lets say they implemented a skill called intuition, this skill gives the character details on environment and NPCs. So for NPC's it might give the player information on an NPC personality, if the person has any noticeable vices. This could be translated into additional conversation options, like telling if the person is lying or being able to charm them into doing what you want . This would be more along lines of a synergy bonus with conversation. It could also be used to open up combat options only available to some one with this skill, like being able to kill a enemy NPC groups leader to impart negative effects on other NPCS. Or have a synergy bonus with a tech skill to be able to target weak points in some ones cybernetic armor.
Environment wise it could be used to provide information on an area. You might get prompts that if you click bestows information on your character, so if they are looking at a crime scene they might be able to piece together what happened. Or notice special things in the environment.
Then have a media station that players can go to, maybe from their back ground. From their they can choose to do a news report on an event, where they choose different dialogue choices that determine if they want to tell the truth or lie. Then player characters have a credibility bar in game that changes depending on what they are doing. So if your considered credible the bar goes up, then maybe you get more money for your story. If you report with out enough facts, or aren't persuasive enough with your lies you might be found uncreditable.
This could lead to mini events like a rival journalist trying to pick apart your story, or corporations using their money to make some of your facts seem false. So if your not good at your job you could lose credibility. Or even get to the point that a corporation might send hit men after you. Negative credibility could start with a character getting deaths threats then escalate into full on random violence.
This approach could be used if your playing a cop, and you arrest some one. Your credibility could negate the need for allot of evidence in the arrest.
In this way they could have an in game skill that effects game play, but allow players the option to pretend to be cops or part of the media. Now for the second long part.
There could be a skill called performance. There are three types of places people can perform street, bar, and stage. Playing on the street doesn't cost the PC any thing, if you meet the area skill check you can get a random amount of money. If you play bad maybe you'll earn a rock instead. Bar requires the PC to pay a fee, but they get a hire amount of money randomly generated. Street and bar generate fame for your character, after you earn enough fame you can play on a stage where you get paid a flat fee plus generate a random amount of money.
With fame you might randomly get sent gifts, or maybe they could special NPC's that join you after you get a certain amount of fame. Random fans might help you in certain areas if you get into a fight.
Performance skill could synergize well with conversation skill, giving you better lyrics. Or make you more charming when dealing with NPC's. It could synergize with combat skills, allowing players special options of turning a guitar case into a weapon holder or be a concealed minigun. Or open up special noise weapons if you get a certain synergize with the tech skill.
Corporate and Fixer seem like they would be perfect to merge into one class. Both groups are connected people, options given to them would determine if they want to be legitimate businessmen or deal more on the black market. This I could see being more back ground related, as you might have a bunch of NPC's you periodically have to meet with. From them you get side missions that based on the results determine how well your business grows. So you might have NPC's sell weapons legally for you, or have them do it illegally for more money. With allot of room for in between.
Classes of cop and solo could be also merged into one. With branching side story of if you want to be a mercenary or work for the government.
I did see the original first...but I saw the Banderas one as well. Which I only remember the awesome Danny Trujillo hopping up on a car and dispensing knifey justice to all and sundry.
Have you seen how many people he spots and shoots before they get him? He's a Solo with really low points in the actual shoot em up skills. Great Combat Sense though.
My issue with additional skills, Merc, is I don't think we need them. CP2020 has Awareness/Notice and Human Perception already. It has Perform.
You could merge Cop and Solo, yep. Especially since the Solo's Special Ability is awkward to translate into Vidyagames - Awareness Notice boots means some kind of silly object highlighting and Init quite likely won't even be in the game.
What a thread to make my introduction in...
Well, having played and been GM many times over the years, the thing I've come to love most about Cyberpunk is the simple fact that I've been able to recruit first time players from all walks of life. Let them know the roles, and the flexibility within, and I've yet to have a first time player not find a role, and a twist on that role, that suited them just fine. Often, in fact, I'd get my brain (and storyline) broken by some genius idea/move/scheme/epiphany. Like the cop team who, upon easily foiling a bank robbery, got to chatting about how much better at it they'd be. End result: A series of escalating bank heists that only ended when things were getting hot, so they then framed another crew and walked away with promotions *sigh*.
Or the Medtech near-cyberpsychotic drug manufacturer/slaver. Or my character, hovering on .5 humanity, cybered to near invulnerability and convinced he was an actual super-hero (his teammates had to spin lies on a minute to minute basis to keep him on target). Or...
There was this one very, very well played rockerboy, played by a random hip-hop loving flatmate of a friend I had just talked into playing. This homeboy played a gangsta-rapper, and chose to use/play his main skill as a peer-pressure based intimidation/fasttalking/motivational tool. Having someone freestyle rap threats in front of his crew for intimidation, or to hype them up when they were less than enthused about the job at hand. He ended up being the standout hero of the group, and was also the only surviving member of the original team after 2 years. He'd played partly as the jester/power behind the throne, partly as the enforcer of the code of ethics among the gang, and partly again as some kind of real-world DnD Bard type, both demoralising opponents and whipping up his homies.
I really don't mean to sound in any way contentious or standoffish, nor do I wish to offend anybody with the following sentence, but it follows nonetheless, and on my own head be it: If you lack the imagination to see beyond guns and chrome, if you cannot see the vast potential in every last role, then that is fine. That's why they're all there. For those of us who enjoy more of a challenge than simply shooting through anyone in our way, for those who also don't want to just breeze through speech checks to talk out way out of trouble, there are options. Not just a third way, but many, many paths. If the developers lives up to their highly ambitious goals (and I for one wish them all the best on this perilous, but wonderous road), then, judging by their stated aims and proven ability, I for one do not wish for them to whittle down the replayability and overall complexity of my favorite PnP game.
There are plenty of linear "RPG" computer games, and very, very few games that even come close to the true nature of PnP rpg's. Almost all fall because of deadlines, and the cutting down of options for gameplay other than pure, combat-oriented Solo-style warfare. Whole patches of Fallout 2 (my favorite of all the computer "RPG" games) are almost impossible to play with a character without some significant degree of combat skill. To continue with the overshare, I once met someone who'd loved Fallout 2, but got bored with it afrer, and I quote, they'd killed everyone. When I asked which followers he had, he looked confused. When I asked which NPC's he'd enjoyed talking to the most (mine's Harold BTW), he asked "You can talk to people in Fallout?" *Headdesk*
In conclusion, while I like a bit of violence in games of this type, I usually use it for the first playthrough. Let's face it, if solos are anywhere near as chunky as in PnP, going for the big kill style of story isn't all that hard, especially if it's an FPS-style game. Taking the time to think, to plan, to come up with novel ways around difficulties without guns being drawn is where the writing and plotting really get a chance to shine, and that's where I'll spend the rest of my playthroughs. Hopefully, those will include at least one rockerboy. Just because you don't like them or see their value is no reason to ditch them altogether. Unless you just want your game sooner with minimal plotting and writing, and more linearity, in which case you might want to just make your own reskin of some FPS or another, and everyone can get what they want.
Peace out.
Well, having played and been GM many times over the years, the thing I've come to love most about Cyberpunk is the simple fact that I've been able to recruit first time players from all walks of life. Let them know the roles, and the flexibility within, and I've yet to have a first time player not find a role, and a twist on that role, that suited them just fine. Often, in fact, I'd get my brain (and storyline) broken by some genius idea/move/scheme/epiphany. Like the cop team who, upon easily foiling a bank robbery, got to chatting about how much better at it they'd be. End result: A series of escalating bank heists that only ended when things were getting hot, so they then framed another crew and walked away with promotions *sigh*.
Or the Medtech near-cyberpsychotic drug manufacturer/slaver. Or my character, hovering on .5 humanity, cybered to near invulnerability and convinced he was an actual super-hero (his teammates had to spin lies on a minute to minute basis to keep him on target). Or...
There was this one very, very well played rockerboy, played by a random hip-hop loving flatmate of a friend I had just talked into playing. This homeboy played a gangsta-rapper, and chose to use/play his main skill as a peer-pressure based intimidation/fasttalking/motivational tool. Having someone freestyle rap threats in front of his crew for intimidation, or to hype them up when they were less than enthused about the job at hand. He ended up being the standout hero of the group, and was also the only surviving member of the original team after 2 years. He'd played partly as the jester/power behind the throne, partly as the enforcer of the code of ethics among the gang, and partly again as some kind of real-world DnD Bard type, both demoralising opponents and whipping up his homies.
I really don't mean to sound in any way contentious or standoffish, nor do I wish to offend anybody with the following sentence, but it follows nonetheless, and on my own head be it: If you lack the imagination to see beyond guns and chrome, if you cannot see the vast potential in every last role, then that is fine. That's why they're all there. For those of us who enjoy more of a challenge than simply shooting through anyone in our way, for those who also don't want to just breeze through speech checks to talk out way out of trouble, there are options. Not just a third way, but many, many paths. If the developers lives up to their highly ambitious goals (and I for one wish them all the best on this perilous, but wonderous road), then, judging by their stated aims and proven ability, I for one do not wish for them to whittle down the replayability and overall complexity of my favorite PnP game.
There are plenty of linear "RPG" computer games, and very, very few games that even come close to the true nature of PnP rpg's. Almost all fall because of deadlines, and the cutting down of options for gameplay other than pure, combat-oriented Solo-style warfare. Whole patches of Fallout 2 (my favorite of all the computer "RPG" games) are almost impossible to play with a character without some significant degree of combat skill. To continue with the overshare, I once met someone who'd loved Fallout 2, but got bored with it afrer, and I quote, they'd killed everyone. When I asked which followers he had, he looked confused. When I asked which NPC's he'd enjoyed talking to the most (mine's Harold BTW), he asked "You can talk to people in Fallout?" *Headdesk*
In conclusion, while I like a bit of violence in games of this type, I usually use it for the first playthrough. Let's face it, if solos are anywhere near as chunky as in PnP, going for the big kill style of story isn't all that hard, especially if it's an FPS-style game. Taking the time to think, to plan, to come up with novel ways around difficulties without guns being drawn is where the writing and plotting really get a chance to shine, and that's where I'll spend the rest of my playthroughs. Hopefully, those will include at least one rockerboy. Just because you don't like them or see their value is no reason to ditch them altogether. Unless you just want your game sooner with minimal plotting and writing, and more linearity, in which case you might want to just make your own reskin of some FPS or another, and everyone can get what they want.
Peace out.
First, welcome aboard Captain Death, the cookies are waiting for you on the dark side...
Second, that is probably the best argument for keeping Rockerboys in the game I have ever heard, (or ever will!)
I do hope that if they are kept, then the role is expanded to cover other artistic medium and also politically motivated types. Hitler was a Rockerboy, after all...
Second, that is probably the best argument for keeping Rockerboys in the game I have ever heard, (or ever will!)
I do hope that if they are kept, then the role is expanded to cover other artistic medium and also politically motivated types. Hitler was a Rockerboy, after all...
That's incredible. That would make a good plot for...well anything really.
I found it quite close to real life personally. My Dad was in the police and he was eventually promoted sideways to become a crime prevention officer for his area. Part of that job is going around businesses and doing general security checks. He conducted a check at a G4S counting house, (the palce they take all the m oney from the banks, building societies and post offices.) The place was a shambles. The fire exits were just standard wooden ones, the glass windows were not barred and the gate was manually controlled, not electronically. He actually told them how someone would break in and rob the place, because there were tens of millions of pounds stacked in bricks just lying around on tables. They accepted his report but did nothing about the lack of security. Within 6 months the place was robbed exactly as my Dad said it would be. However, it was a couple of west indian chaps that did it and they botched the whole shebang and got caught on the way out. My Dad always said that if they had gone in as a team of 4 with a better getaway vehicle they could have made off with at least £12m, if not £20m.
I think a part of him is a bit miffed he passed up the opportunity.
Thank you very much for the welcome!
Yeah, it seems those more... direct in their thinking tend to view charismatic leadership as purely related to inciting violence. It's not the only function, but one Adolph spammed to his own detriment in the end.
There are such simple, subtle uses, like the same guy using his (bear with me, my old copy of 2020 is in the garage, and it has been a while since I dusted off my knowledge) cybernetic voicebox (feel free to tell me what it's actually called, my nerdyparts can't stand the tension!) to make fats sounds during a possibly calamitous faceoff, breaking the tension and making us have to take a break to breathe.
The human psyche is ripe for manipulation, and considering just how well modern musicians hack the minds of the masses, give 'em 7 years (or 64 even) and you can imagine how big an effect one could have on the spot.
Remember, guns can influence the world around you one bullet at a time, but the Beatles were bigger than Jeebuz. Influencing entire cultures is almost godlike in it's power. Yet, if you're into violence and mayhem, just ask yourself what'd happen if ICP put out a fatwah?
Yeah, it seems those more... direct in their thinking tend to view charismatic leadership as purely related to inciting violence. It's not the only function, but one Adolph spammed to his own detriment in the end.
There are such simple, subtle uses, like the same guy using his (bear with me, my old copy of 2020 is in the garage, and it has been a while since I dusted off my knowledge) cybernetic voicebox (feel free to tell me what it's actually called, my nerdyparts can't stand the tension!) to make fats sounds during a possibly calamitous faceoff, breaking the tension and making us have to take a break to breathe.
The human psyche is ripe for manipulation, and considering just how well modern musicians hack the minds of the masses, give 'em 7 years (or 64 even) and you can imagine how big an effect one could have on the spot.
Remember, guns can influence the world around you one bullet at a time, but the Beatles were bigger than Jeebuz. Influencing entire cultures is almost godlike in it's power. Yet, if you're into violence and mayhem, just ask yourself what'd happen if ICP put out a fatwah?
Dig!
I still think of that one campaign as the best reason for RPG's having a positive effect on society. Imagine all those clever, devious, yet socially awkward people, left to their own devices without any outlet for their unique minds...
Sadly, ICP is a perfect example of Charismatic Leadership. They make shitty music with simplistic lyrics, and their gimmick was played out before they ever started, but they speak to a very specific audience, and they speak to that audience well. Sure their audience may be trailer trash and suburban reprobates, but gather any group of people, figure out how to speak directly to them, and you can convince them of just about anything., especially how to spend their money. Get enough money, get enough people, and all it does get you more money and more influence, and even an air of legitimacy. Now while the Juggalos may be the most reprehensible and annoying fan base of all time, they are extremely loyal, extremely close knit, and massive. So what ICP has, at a moments notice, is a army of poorly educated fanatics who are willing to do anything in the name of their patron band, be it just buy all their merchandise, or assault a porn star. They would riot if given the word, that can be guaranteed. Which is just a tremendous amount of Charismatic Leadership for a couple of guys who are baffled by magnets.
But Rap and Hip/Hop, particularly from the late 80's and early 90's is so much closer to what the Cyberpunk roles describes than any image they show (all of which seem to be guitar wailing white boys looking like they stepped out of a warrant video) that it's not even funny. I get that the original role was intended to be dynamic, but so very very few bands or artists fit the description, especially in the rock scene, that one wonders why they focused so heavily on that aspect of it... I mean yes, you simply will not find a better example of Cyberpunk Rockerboys than Rage Against the Machine, but the role was so much more than that, and the only place it's expanded on is the Rockerboy sourcebook, which was released for 2013 original CP, and then the far reaching examples of what a rockerboy actually is were just kinda of ignored in favor of them all looking like Bon Jovi afterwords.
Which is why I split the role up into Instigator (for the mass influence of charismatic leadership) and Artiste (for the musician) with IU.
(Yes, I know there are probably ICP fans on this board, and I have probably offended them... just remember, I probably like music you hate and am part of fanbases you despise as well. Hell here is some free ammo for you, I love me some Go-Gos, both as a group and Weidlin and Carlisles solo careers, I also think U2 is one of the greatest bands ever.... so blast away.)
Baffled by magnets.... BWAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH! I don't know or care if that's a reference, that is gold! No, that, my friend, is CHROME!
I do wanna know if the Porn-star assault was an actual thing though...
Oh, and okay, since you asked for it:
Guy gets in to heaven, and St. Peter is leading him around, showing him the sights.
Finally, they approach an ENORMOUS throne, the top of which fades out of view. As they get closer, the guy starts to be able to make out the features of the man in the big chair.
"Wait a minute, that's not god... That's Bono!" Cries the confused man.
"Nah," Replies St. Peter, "It's God, he just thinks he's Bono"
*rimshot*