As a fan of music no-one's ever heard of, and/or could and has started fistfights at parties full of pot-smoking hippies, I live in a very, very shoddy glass house, so no stones shall be thrown. Not even light ones like Keith Richards...
As a fan of music no-one's ever heard of, and/or could and has started fistfights at parties full of pot-smoking hippies, I live in a very, very shoddy glass house, so no stones shall be thrown. Not even light ones like Keith Richards...
Personally, my musical tastes range from Bach to Johnny Cash to Jimmy Hendrix to KMFDM.
The only things I can say about my musical taste with any surety is that it is certainly varied and that I dislike just about everything produced within the last 7 or 8 years.
Too bad.
I quite like Calvin Harris, Metric, Lana Del Rey, They Heavy ( Short Change Hero), Birdy, Placebo, ( running up that hill), Kaskade, ( Eyes), Kavinsky, nearly the whole Dredd soundtrack, Lightning Dust, Naked and Famous..probably lots more.
Also Katy Perry, Daft Punk's new stuff, Lady Gaga Applause, Lumineers, Imagine Dragons, at least one Justin Bieber song..and a bunch of others not on my current playlist that I'm forgetting. Oh! Chooka Parker! look him up, too. Kid is incredible. And of course Adele.
I quite like Calvin Harris, Metric, Lana Del Rey, They Heavy ( Short Change Hero), Birdy, Placebo, ( running up that hill), Kaskade, ( Eyes), Kavinsky, nearly the whole Dredd soundtrack, Lightning Dust, Naked and Famous..probably lots more.
Also Katy Perry, Daft Punk's new stuff, Lady Gaga Applause, Lumineers, Imagine Dragons, at least one Justin Bieber song..and a bunch of others not on my current playlist that I'm forgetting. Oh! Chooka Parker! look him up, too. Kid is incredible. And of course Adele.
Me, I like a bit of everything, from Dead Kennedys and KMFDM, to Wesley Willis and TISM. However, I'd pay money to have the opportunity to hose down a Bieber posergang with a minigun 
Lately, I've been enjoying the return to form from Mindless Self Indulgence, now that they're out from under the corporate yoke, and all the music that has infighting as to the name of the genre, from chillwave to newretrowave, but I like to think of it all as "Cool bad 80's action/scifi soundtrack music" - That stuff makes me wish I hadn't grown up and stopped dropping acid...
However, I like a lot of stuff that seems odd (to me at least...) for an old punk like myself to like. Sure, Nasenbluten makes sense, but Niki Minaj?
Yet still, even among all the strange, eclectic mix of things I like, the far greater list would be acts that make me dream of pitchforks and torches. Unfortunately, Sardukhar, despite their awesome handle/reference, has unleashed the scornbeast of musical snobbery that I try to hide under a thin facade of psychological realskinn.
My greatest single day working as a Loader (if you think of Roadies as Sergeants, think of Loaders as expendable frontline cannonfodder) was the day I got to load all of Placebo's (pronounced Place-Bo) gear into airfreight crates and help them leave my country. Still, I do like the cute girl who sings for 'em
In the end, I spent too much time at the bottom rung of the music industry to have much respect or love for many acts. Though it did provide the high point of watching Iggy Pop at the Big Day Out from side of stage, closer than all the punters got to be, while smoking cigarettes bummed from his sound-man and being paid $35 an hour. That shit was chrome, lemme tell ya!
Lately, I've been enjoying the return to form from Mindless Self Indulgence, now that they're out from under the corporate yoke, and all the music that has infighting as to the name of the genre, from chillwave to newretrowave, but I like to think of it all as "Cool bad 80's action/scifi soundtrack music" - That stuff makes me wish I hadn't grown up and stopped dropping acid...
However, I like a lot of stuff that seems odd (to me at least...) for an old punk like myself to like. Sure, Nasenbluten makes sense, but Niki Minaj?
Yet still, even among all the strange, eclectic mix of things I like, the far greater list would be acts that make me dream of pitchforks and torches. Unfortunately, Sardukhar, despite their awesome handle/reference, has unleashed the scornbeast of musical snobbery that I try to hide under a thin facade of psychological realskinn.
My greatest single day working as a Loader (if you think of Roadies as Sergeants, think of Loaders as expendable frontline cannonfodder) was the day I got to load all of Placebo's (pronounced Place-Bo) gear into airfreight crates and help them leave my country. Still, I do like the cute girl who sings for 'em
In the end, I spent too much time at the bottom rung of the music industry to have much respect or love for many acts. Though it did provide the high point of watching Iggy Pop at the Big Day Out from side of stage, closer than all the punters got to be, while smoking cigarettes bummed from his sound-man and being paid $35 an hour. That shit was chrome, lemme tell ya!
Possibly the best line I've read all week.
Mindless Si is pretty good. Shut Me Up, anyway, I'm checking the rest of their stuff out on Spotify now.
I have a musician friend who's pretty picky about his music. He makes some good points, but I enjoy much, much more music than he does. His stuff, my stuff, probably your stuff. I dumped most of my prejudices years ago in favour of a higher payoff rate for enjoyment.
Placebo's cover of Running Up The Hill
Is pretty good. I tripped over it somewhere and quite like it. Great music to be...intent to.
EDIT FOR TOPIC COPS:
This whole off-topic discussion is a justification, in my mind, for Rockerboys to make the cut. Music is so influential to us as a culture(s). Those who make it can change so much, albeit in perhaps more subtle, long-range methods than a gunman would.
I don't mean in terms of buffs or nerfs or making drug dealers do what you want - I think Rockerboys should, as a class, have a way to communicate to the player the power and thrill of music, it's ability to shape minds and change hearts.
I think playing a rockerboy should be a chance to shake up the gameworld with your creative ability, your sense of power and your timing and your rage.
Good luck on seeing that in-game, but can you imagine?
I'm imagining right now. I feel funny in my pants when I dream these dreams...
One day, in the future, computer RPG's will be as flexible as they are in the real world. At least for a while, until the GM AI's rise up against us, and make us play IRL for their sick amusement.
That thought also makes me feel funny in my downstairs. Think I'll go have a "lie down" now...
One day, in the future, computer RPG's will be as flexible as they are in the real world. At least for a while, until the GM AI's rise up against us, and make us play IRL for their sick amusement.
That thought also makes me feel funny in my downstairs. Think I'll go have a "lie down" now...
The real problems with trying to include the classicly portrayed rockerboy in a video game....
Ok, let's put aside the technical problems of all the mechanics and animations completely unrelated to anything else in the game that a rockerboy would entail... beyond that is the matter of taste... more importantly, musical taste. You see, a netrunner is classicly portrayed as a musician. The problem with this is everyone likes different music.
Now I guess you could go the classic route, where every performance you just pick a song... but not only does that not create consistancy, but it effectively turns your rockerboy into a shitty 3rd rate cover band.
You could create new music for the game... but how many new songs is someone willing to pay to have written and produced for 1 role out of 10? And then you are stuck with back at playing a rocker who may not even play music you like, worse what if it's music you hate? Add in different styles of music and the price starts going through the roof, and you generally will only get one song per music style...
See beyond the mechanics and animations of having one role play instrument/sing and dance around on stage... this is where the real disconnect would come in.
How could you cover these bases, ecumenically, and still be interesting?
Ok, let's put aside the technical problems of all the mechanics and animations completely unrelated to anything else in the game that a rockerboy would entail... beyond that is the matter of taste... more importantly, musical taste. You see, a netrunner is classicly portrayed as a musician. The problem with this is everyone likes different music.
Now I guess you could go the classic route, where every performance you just pick a song... but not only does that not create consistancy, but it effectively turns your rockerboy into a shitty 3rd rate cover band.
You could create new music for the game... but how many new songs is someone willing to pay to have written and produced for 1 role out of 10? And then you are stuck with back at playing a rocker who may not even play music you like, worse what if it's music you hate? Add in different styles of music and the price starts going through the roof, and you generally will only get one song per music style...
See beyond the mechanics and animations of having one role play instrument/sing and dance around on stage... this is where the real disconnect would come in.
How could you cover these bases, ecumenically, and still be interesting?
A very good question.
I guess it depends on if you are a shitty third rate cover band or a cool one, would be issue one. You could start as a cool one, with a song selection akin to GTA or SR - genres and tastes have a selection that pleases them.
Then you have a variety of songs recorded. They are doing music anyway, right? We can presume, this being CDPR, the music will be pretty damn cool. So, they are going to have new music in game. Probably lots of it. CDPR does like their compositions.
Why not have your rockerboy's choice in-game determine which songs and pieces show up in the rest of the game? Even cooler, perhaps those selections could then show up in other games, under your Rockerboy's alias?
You'd want to keep a few - or more - of these songs off teh playlist until the PC played a Rockerboy - or just ask, "All music available?" at game start.
As for animations and cost - that's what we're paying for. I want less repeated animations. I don;'t want them to skimp on these little touches.
Stuff like this makes the game stand out and although if they have to cut rockerboy, I won't be crying in my beer, I think it could also really set the game as a truly different RPG experience.
I guess it depends on if you are a shitty third rate cover band or a cool one, would be issue one. You could start as a cool one, with a song selection akin to GTA or SR - genres and tastes have a selection that pleases them.
Then you have a variety of songs recorded. They are doing music anyway, right? We can presume, this being CDPR, the music will be pretty damn cool. So, they are going to have new music in game. Probably lots of it. CDPR does like their compositions.
Why not have your rockerboy's choice in-game determine which songs and pieces show up in the rest of the game? Even cooler, perhaps those selections could then show up in other games, under your Rockerboy's alias?
You'd want to keep a few - or more - of these songs off teh playlist until the PC played a Rockerboy - or just ask, "All music available?" at game start.
As for animations and cost - that's what we're paying for. I want less repeated animations. I don;'t want them to skimp on these little touches.
Stuff like this makes the game stand out and although if they have to cut rockerboy, I won't be crying in my beer, I think it could also really set the game as a truly different RPG experience.
I had this budget idea. What if there weren't as many songs and you'd never actually play them. You'd only hear maybe one or two songs in background from news or radio when some media rates your latest show.
Meaning you could do lots of backstage stuff and interviews but game would always skip over the actual concert.
So it would be more living the life than actually performing. Just a thought
Meaning you could do lots of backstage stuff and interviews but game would always skip over the actual concert.
So it would be more living the life than actually performing. Just a thought
The problem is, how much time, money, energy and game resources do you devote to 1 one 9 Roles? And still treat each role as equal and important?
And how many bands/artists out there do you really think want to let a fictional character take the credit for their songs?
Well, the whole point of rockerboy isn't them living the life of rockstars. It's the influence they have over mass crowds of people from the stage. So without the performance, then you aren't really playing a Rockerboy, you are just playing a douchebag in a band.
I mean they could forego the whole musical aspect altogether and make the character a political activist giving speeches, but that really doesn't git the image R.Tal cultivated as the default for the setting.
Honestly, while I would love to see the Roles all as playable characters, I really cannot fathom how they are going to be able to pull it off, without the rest of the game lacking for it, even if they go the role and spiderweb story structure I proposed.
And how many bands/artists out there do you really think want to let a fictional character take the credit for their songs?
I had this budget idea. What if there weren't as many songs and you'd never actually play them. You'd only hear maybe one or two songs in background from news or radio when some media rates your latest show.
Meaning you could do lots of backstage stuff and interviews but game would always skip over the actual concert.
So it would be more living the life than actually performing. Just a thought
Well, the whole point of rockerboy isn't them living the life of rockstars. It's the influence they have over mass crowds of people from the stage. So without the performance, then you aren't really playing a Rockerboy, you are just playing a douchebag in a band.
I mean they could forego the whole musical aspect altogether and make the character a political activist giving speeches, but that really doesn't git the image R.Tal cultivated as the default for the setting.
Honestly, while I would love to see the Roles all as playable characters, I really cannot fathom how they are going to be able to pull it off, without the rest of the game lacking for it, even if they go the role and spiderweb story structure I proposed.
Yeah, I don't disagree, Wisdom. I think we haven't a spit's chance in hell of seeing this happen. I'm mostly okay with that - I am okay with that, as long as we see Rockerboys as NPCs - but hey, we can dream.
I'd rather see Rockerboy get a hefty resource share than, say, Medtech. Or even Solo, since mostly what they do is Kill Shit. Nothnig too special there.
There are so many weird specialized Roles, too. Corporate is almost a separate game. So's Media. So's Rocker. Techie can sort-of adjunct to any other game if he gets a lab/garage/workshop. Cop is a separate game from Corporate. And so on.
It's my number one question: how are they doing Roles and which will make the cut?
I'd rather see Rockerboy get a hefty resource share than, say, Medtech. Or even Solo, since mostly what they do is Kill Shit. Nothnig too special there.
There are so many weird specialized Roles, too. Corporate is almost a separate game. So's Media. So's Rocker. Techie can sort-of adjunct to any other game if he gets a lab/garage/workshop. Cop is a separate game from Corporate. And so on.
It's my number one question: how are they doing Roles and which will make the cut?
Yeah I really liked that idea of political activist / religious leader better than rockstar.
Another budget option could be a Rockerboy minigame. I used to make my own dance music when I was at school, (so almost 20 years ago now... I feel so old...) using a very simple sample program called Dance Ejay. It had 5 or 6 different sample of various types of sounds, (about 200 samples overall,) and I even sold a couple of tapes to the other kids.
Basically, if vocals are left out it could be quite easy to create thousands of unique tracks to individual tastes in various styles. All it would take is some samples.
Of course there is the issue of terrible combinations that end up sounding like a cat in a blender, but the actual track is unimportant because its down to your characters ability, not the players.
Basically, if vocals are left out it could be quite easy to create thousands of unique tracks to individual tastes in various styles. All it would take is some samples.
Of course there is the issue of terrible combinations that end up sounding like a cat in a blender, but the actual track is unimportant because its down to your characters ability, not the players.
yeah, thats kinda been my point the whole time really... Is that for each role to be treated properly, it would kind of require a seperate game altogether.
Limiting Roles to Solo, Netrunner, Nomad Tech Medtech and Fixer, is probably the easiest route they can take with the game... allowing us to mix up those roles pretty easily too, without much of a stir in the way the storyline plays out, or the mechanics of the game.
Corporate, Media, Rockerboy, Cop.... those are full time careers, they follow a fairly strict structure, and the nature of them limits what you can reasonably have the freedom or abulity, or even desire, to do.
I think it would be such a shame if this game is made without adding some of the most quintessential CP2020 gameplay options like playing as a corporate or rockerboy; I don't see what other reason you would make this game if not to have the different types of gameplay and roleplay such roles offer.
To be honest, Solo and Cop are almost cliche roles, you can see the variation of these roles in other games. But techie, netrunner, media, corp, rockerboy roles are nonexistence in most rpgs. Even nomad is cliche because you practically play a nomad-esque person in other rpgs.
Besides offering a truly unique gameplay experience, the other important thing should be to tailor the storytelling (to an extent) and gameplay to the role, and not have a one shoe fits all policy where it doesn't make a difference if the player is a cop or a rockerboy.
Personally, I want this game to have really well-developed gameplay for the corp role.
To be honest, Solo and Cop are almost cliche roles, you can see the variation of these roles in other games. But techie, netrunner, media, corp, rockerboy roles are nonexistence in most rpgs. Even nomad is cliche because you practically play a nomad-esque person in other rpgs.
Besides offering a truly unique gameplay experience, the other important thing should be to tailor the storytelling (to an extent) and gameplay to the role, and not have a one shoe fits all policy where it doesn't make a difference if the player is a cop or a rockerboy.
Personally, I want this game to have really well-developed gameplay for the corp role.
That's a given to a TISM fan. There's a lot more of interest in a Rockerboy's life than just being on stage. Maybe you need to listen to "It's a long way to the top (If you wanna rock n' roll) by AC/DC just one more time. Those inside the entertainment industry don't stop existing just cuz you can't see them, some just think they do.
Besides, I don;t think anyone should get to start the game as an established anything, regardless of role. I'm hoping our intro as a Medtech is being laid off from nursing on the incontinence ward due to budget cuts. Techie going bankrupt because no one wants stuff fixed anymore. The netrunner just getting out of jail for serial trolling offences. The Solo just got dishonorably discharged etc etc. Starting at the top doesn't work unless they take it away quickly. Ask a struggling musician about their job, and man you'll get some dramatic, engaging stories, lemme tell ya...
Oh, and now I have a mancrush on Flashheart! Your post made me cry "WOOF WOOF!"
Idisagree with your assessment of most of the roles:
Solo - If you are a freelance gun for hire, then you aren't in a demanding career as it were, but if you are on the books of a merc unit, criminal organistion or corporation then you will be expect to show up and do your job.
Netrunner - same as the Solo.
Nomad - In my eyes, this is a heavily restrictive role, not to mention that it seems more of a 'situation' than an 'occupation'. Nomads are nothing without their families and they are beholden to them. When the family needs you, you have to show up. A nomad without a family is just a homeless bum with a set of wheels.
Techie - If you run your own workshop, you can work as you see fit, but if you are on the books for a major organisation, you have to show up for work...
Meditech - same as the Techie.
Fixer - A fixer who doesn't keep his personal business moving and contacts updated is not going to be in business long. If anything, being a Fixer can be the most demanding of all the roles with regards to effort needed to keep them operating in their role. (Damn I love the 'Wildside' sourcebook.)
Corporate - Ok, working for the man is fairly restrictive by definition. But you can also be given a lot of freedom to operate depending on the exact nature of your employment. The Corporate Edgerunner isn't usually the paper pusher, he's the guy that get's paid to shout at the paper pushers and get results.
Media - A freelance media, (which is probably most of them,) has no one to answer to and therefore can operate however they see fit at their own pace. I hardly call that restrictve.
Rockerboy - much like the Media, Rockers can operate under their own steam, working crowds and gigs as they present themselves. That's probably why they end up as Edgerunners doing courier jobs and boosting secret hardware for the same douchebags that they complain about in their music.
Cop - Being an actual Cop is a career, but being a private investigator or a bounty hunter comes under this heading too and they are not as restricted.
Don't forget that an integral part of the character creation process for 2020 was working out if your character is currently employed or not. If you are employed, you have to show up for work. If you aren't, then you are a Runner of leisure...
It's all down to interpretation.
But hey, they may be doing away with the established roles and creating completely new ones. Realistically, all the roles are comprised of varying levels of 3 attributes: Combat Prowess, Technical Ability and Ability to Manipulate People. Everything else about a role is flavour.
Just because you are in the entertainment industry, does not make you a rockerboy... in fact most of the people in the entertainment industry are corps, no musical talent whatsoever. But we aren't talking about the entertainment industry, we are talking about Rockerboys. And Rockerboys have the special ability Charismatic Leadership, which is only really effective when they are addressing an audience.
Saying the performance isn't necessary for the Rockerboy is pretty much the same thing as saying saying getting into fights isn't necessary for the solo, instead they can just hang out in surly bars and tell war stories, or that instead of repairing things, techies can just read auto-trader and go to monster truck rallies.
Being established has nothing to do with it.
Look, I would love for all the roles to be available as playable in the game, but not if they are given half assed representations, and not if doing so is going to negatively impact the overall game.
We have a lot of wishes for how we would like this game to turn out, some are more realistic than others.
The point I was making is that those roles can all fit as a freelance. They can all easily allow for the character to be doing his own thing, his own way.
At low-levels the corporate is very much the salaryman working in a cubicle, at best he is someones flunky.
PI's and Bounty Hunters do not get Authority, because they have none...
Except it's not.... Corporates and Cops, by the very definition of their special ability, require them to be employed. A cop without the badge, without the force backing him up, is just a thug, he has no Authority. A corporate without a company doesn't have any Resources to call on, he is just another unemployed guy in a suit.
True, we have no idea what they are planning, or how they are planning to implement it. All I am saying is, I would rather see Roles relegated to NPC's if including them as playable is going to be done half assed, or deteriorate the game as a whole.
Just watched the Watch Dogs 14 minute gameplay trailer on RPS. They talk of player freedom and multiple approaches, the usual thing.
These multiple appraoches tend to boil down to shoot-sneak-or hack. Some games swao chat for hack. Some even have a little of chat and hack. Still, it's really more of the same, but if WD can execute all those options well in a big, free world, they will have quite possibly set a new bar for player choice.
Depending on how successful games like Watch Dogs are could well influence what Roles we see and how they handle in-game. CDPR is demonstrably ambitious. If they see another game capable of doing a solid free-roaming multiple-approach gameplay, they could well decide to up the ante and give niche Roles like Corporate and Rockerboy fully viable playstyles. The option to play as a non or less violent class that depends on outside help and/or persuasion to succeed mostly would be quite interesting in a big free world with random interactions.
I don't agree that low level Corps are cubicle fodder, necessarily. They are ambitious, driven professionals,much like a low level Solo or Medtech. They can't do a lot, but they can do a little with what they have.
I think if the definition of audience for Rockerboy is expanded, a viable playstyle for problem solving could be something akin to Vampire's Mass Domination or Awe, where the group of people you are appealing to help you achieve your goals in a way no other class can do.
These multiple appraoches tend to boil down to shoot-sneak-or hack. Some games swao chat for hack. Some even have a little of chat and hack. Still, it's really more of the same, but if WD can execute all those options well in a big, free world, they will have quite possibly set a new bar for player choice.
Depending on how successful games like Watch Dogs are could well influence what Roles we see and how they handle in-game. CDPR is demonstrably ambitious. If they see another game capable of doing a solid free-roaming multiple-approach gameplay, they could well decide to up the ante and give niche Roles like Corporate and Rockerboy fully viable playstyles. The option to play as a non or less violent class that depends on outside help and/or persuasion to succeed mostly would be quite interesting in a big free world with random interactions.
I don't agree that low level Corps are cubicle fodder, necessarily. They are ambitious, driven professionals,much like a low level Solo or Medtech. They can't do a lot, but they can do a little with what they have.
I think if the definition of audience for Rockerboy is expanded, a viable playstyle for problem solving could be something akin to Vampire's Mass Domination or Awe, where the group of people you are appealing to help you achieve your goals in a way no other class can do.
I hear ya. Even just the difference in crow behavior would be apparent. Some bum in a shootout = run... Lady Gaga in a firefight? That'd have different features, that scene... Imagine crazed little monsters charging the gunmen with trashcans... Seriously, fans are fucking mental....
This could be taken much. much further, to the point of reputation maintenance. For a solo, sure, it's gank all posers and your rep is sound. For a Rockerboy in a hurry to walk three blocks, because the clock is ticking? A rockerboy's rep relies on the illusion of solidarity with the fans. Can't whip 'em up against them if you don't behave like one of us. Autographs and selfies every 30 feet, and that'd just mean you're doing okay. Beyond a certain point, it's entourage and bodyguard time.
In any case, I took their statements about being as close to 2020 as possible seriously, and I am cautiously optimistic about those roles certain GM's never liked much. I suppose Tupac was right, and only the GM could judge him
This could be taken much. much further, to the point of reputation maintenance. For a solo, sure, it's gank all posers and your rep is sound. For a Rockerboy in a hurry to walk three blocks, because the clock is ticking? A rockerboy's rep relies on the illusion of solidarity with the fans. Can't whip 'em up against them if you don't behave like one of us. Autographs and selfies every 30 feet, and that'd just mean you're doing okay. Beyond a certain point, it's entourage and bodyguard time.
In any case, I took their statements about being as close to 2020 as possible seriously, and I am cautiously optimistic about those roles certain GM's never liked much. I suppose Tupac was right, and only the GM could judge him