should I upgrade my i5 to an i7

[jones1988]

Mine 2500k is on stable 4.4ghz and I'm satisfied with it. Probably the best upgrade ever, more than 4 years old and still going strong.

I regret buying a locked CPU
If I can oc to 4ghz, I can run this game smoothly

Guys..if I can sell my old 4460 for 70% of its price, should I sell it and purchase a 4790k? Would it give a significantly better frame rate in novigrad? Or at least 60fps if my GPU has no problem in it

 

[SigilFey]

Once again, you will notice, at most, a moderate increase in FPS. It all depends on all of the rest of your hardware and your overall system configuration. At MOST, however, you may gain ~10 FPS. It will likely be less.

The processor you have is only a couple quick-steps behind a 4790K. The architecture of modern CPUs is not built to render high FPS in 3D software, that's what the GPU is for. What the 4790K will get you is significantly faster system boot, faster loading times, the ability to multitask more reliably, and somewhat less stuttering (although I'm running a 4790K and 980 ti myself, and I still get stuttering -- BAD stuttering in a few places).

Overclocking is a rather rough way to increase your performance. Yes, it improves things, but it does so by forcing more current through your components than their architecture was meant to handle. This very often results in instability, overheating, and it severely decreases the lifespan of your hardware (even with proper cooling.)

It's highly unlikely that you will sell your used, present-gen hardware for even 50% of its cost. Think logically about that -- would you buy it at that price? Granted, there are some suckers out there, but I wouldn't bank on it. Resale follows a general system: pricing begins at 60% of the present retail value and bargaining goes down from there. You're usually selling at a good rate if you can nab about 40%-50% of the present market value. If you were selling a new, unopened processor, you might get 70%-80%, as you cannot offer any sort of warranty or even guarantee a refund.

It's wholly up to you, in the end, but I say again that no CPU on the market now is going to give you a drastic increase in performance over your 4460. It would be far better for you to take some time and streamline your system config for gaming.

 

[jones1988]

Once again, you will notice, at most, a moderate increase in FPS. It all depends on all of the rest of your hardware and your overall system configuration. At MOST, however, you may gain ~10 FPS. It will likely be less.

The processor you have is only a couple quick-steps behind a 4790K. The architecture of modern CPUs is not built to render high FPS in 3D software, that's what the GPU is for. What the 4790K will get you is significantly faster system boot, faster loading times, the ability to multitask more reliably, and somewhat less stuttering (although I'm running a 4790K and 980 ti myself, and I still get stuttering -- BAD stuttering in a few places).

Overclocking is a rather rough way to increase your performance. Yes, it improves things, but it does so by forcing more current through your components than their architecture was meant to handle. This very often results in instability, overheating, and it severely decreases the lifespan of your hardware (even with proper cooling.)

It's highly unlikely that you will sell your used, present-gen hardware for even 50% of its cost. Think logically about that -- would you buy it at that price? Granted, there are some suckers out there, but I wouldn't bank on it. Resale follows a general system: pricing begins at 60% of the present retail value and bargaining goes down from there. You're usually selling at a good rate if you can nab about 40%-50% of the present market value. If you were selling a new, unopened processor, you might get 70%-80%, as you cannot offer any sort of warranty or even guarantee a refund.

It's wholly up to you, in the end, but I say again that no CPU on the market now is going to give you a drastic increase in performance over your 4460. It would be far better for you to take some time and streamline your system config for gaming.

Thanks so much for helping
In my country somebody wants it at $100 USD which is not so bad for me to resell.
Seeing my CPU usage skyrockets thru playing witcher/ gta5, have no doubt to purchase a new CPU for gaming beyond, have seen a 2500k 4.5ghz perform a lot better than my 4460, know that modern games like high clock speed but not necessarily number of cores:/

 

[SigilFey]

Thanks so much for helping
In my country somebody wants it at $100 USD which is not so bad for me to resell.
Seeing my CPU usage skyrockets thru playing witcher/ gta5, have no doubt to purchase a new CPU for gaming beyond, have seen a 2500k 4.5ghz perform a lot better than my 4460, know that modern games like high clock speed but not necessarily number of cores:/

You're welcome!

$100 seems quite fair. You may make out pretty well, after all!

The high CPU usage is likely down to bad communication between your CPU/game, CPU/GPU, or CPU/RAM. It could also be DirectX acting up. Your motherboard may not be configured correctly. It could be a poorly optimized "Turbo mode" timing. This is why I recommended doing the BIOS flash. (Sorry if that didn't work out for you.) As for clock speed, it's a balancing act. You have high voltage and raw performance in one hand, and logic processors granting superior overall efficiency in the other. Multi-core threading trumps high pure GHz in most cases, but many games still do not utilize threading very efficiently (TW3 - cough) and will benefit from more cycles.

Six of one, half a dozen of another.

 

[ZZantal]

Every time i go to the forums and there is a discussion about hardware or software I want to rip my guts out.

Do not ask on the game forums if you should upgrade or not, hardware forums are the way to go (e.g. overclockers.com) and trust only respected sources.

The most stupid comment I have read so far is the one above mine.

Disregard 90% of the posts others made and now read mine.

There is nothing wrong with the game utilizing up to 90% of the cpu and not so much of your gpu.
RedEngine is DX11 which supports multithreaded rendering (great stuff not really achievable with dx9) and that greatly improves performance in cpu heavy areas,
such in cities, forests and so on. Each object (oversimplifying here) is a draw call which sets up the object to be rendered. when you have a map with lots of objects the engine greatly benefits from additional cores as it can concurrently update more objects. Witcher 3 has a lot of detail, which results in lots of drawcalls, even if they optimized it as much as they could (which I think they did)

Then we have AI and physics which also benefit from multiple cores. I am just realizing I have written too much already

Short version, yes get an I7, Hyper Threading helps, although it is not 100% scaling (you get 4 additional logical cores but they only activate on unused circuits and idle cores), overclocking regardless of having HT or not helps even more, and with the latest I7 versions it is easier than ever.

As a last remark for people who don't know what they are talking about and think they do know what they are talking about, Please consider the fact that if taken seriously you could screw someone's computer for good.

Bios flashing is only really needed when advised from the mobo producer or when experiencing hardware incompatibilities, very very rarely it affects the performance of hardware.

Sorry for sounding so harsh, but when I read all these arguments fresh out of someone's A** I cannot stop myself.

 

[SigilFey]

Every time i go to the forums and there is a discussion about hardware or software I want to rip my guts out.

Do not ask on the game forums if you should upgrade or not, hardware forums are the way to go (e.g. overclockers.com) and trust only respected sources.

The most stupid comment I have read so far is the one above mine.

Disregard 90% of the posts others made and now read mine.

There is nothing wrong with the game utilizing up to 90% of the cpu and not so much of your gpu.
RedEngine is DX11 which supports multithreaded rendering (great stuff not really achievable with dx9) and that greatly improves performance in cpu heavy areas,
such in cities, forests and so on. Each object (oversimplifying here) is a draw call which sets up the object to be rendered. when you have a map with lots of objects the engine greatly benefits from additional cores as it can concurrently update more objects. Witcher 3 has a lot of detail, which results in lots of drawcalls, even if they optimized it as much as they could (which I think they did)

Then we have AI and physics which also benefit from multiple cores. I am just realizing I have written too much already

Short version, yes get an I7, Hyper Threading helps, although it is not 100% scaling (you get 4 additional logical cores but they only activate on unused circuits and idle cores), overclocking regardless of having HT or not helps even more, and with the latest I7 versions it is easier than ever.

As a last remark for people who don't know what they are talking about and think they do know what they are talking about, Please consider the fact that if taken seriously you could screw someone's computer for good.

Bios flashing is only really needed when advised from the mobo producer or when experiencing hardware incompatibilities, very very rarely it affects the performance of hardware.

Sorry for sounding so harsh, but when I read all these arguments fresh out of someone's A** I cannot stop myself.

I would recommend that you adjust your tone for both professionalism and as well making yourself sound even remotely informed. Had you taken the time to read this thread from the beginning, you would have seen that the issue is performance degradation with CPU at nearly full load while the GPU is rolling along at 50% load. Obviously, there is an issue with the way either the game or the system is utilizing its resources.

Your post above is nothing but an impulsive retort to a situation you are not even fully aware of. A response like this is never helpful. But, if you feel you you have the expertise, then please feel free to provide the solution to the OP's problem below.

 

[dragonbird]

Both of you drop it, please.

 

[ZZantal]

I don't see Issues with what the OP is reporting, the problem here is the cpu the op has is locked @ 3.20ghz and without hyperthreading, even if it is a fairly good cpu it won't handle a demanding game like TW3, not at 60fps anyway.

If the cpu is running at 100% that is the bottleneck and it inherently means that the gpu won't be used at 100% capacity. (oversimplifying again here)

One way to check if the game is cpu bound is to increase vegetation draw distance, which increases the count of visible objects on screen thus increasing draw call count, which do get handled by the cpu.

I am having this non issue too with my i7 920 which is overclocked and manages to keep my fps at 60 in most cases with 70% or more utilization.
(draw distance set to medium, if set to ultra there is a fps drop)

But what do I know, Obviously my cpu offended the gpu and she is now refusing to work properly.

 

[SigilFey]

It's still a fairly recent CPU with a decent speed. More than enough to be feeding the GPU before throttling. There is something else choking it up. I've got the game running on a 3-year-old laptop (badly), as well as my i7 4790K. My nephew runs it on a 2-year-old i5 himself without issue. Never seen 100% GPU usage on any of those systems. It's not sensible that an i5 processor released last year will suddenly not be able to handle it. There's a config issue.

 

[ZZantal]

Someone is lying, and it ain't me.

Lucky me I have some evidence to back my claims, instead of calling to my aid my son's i3.
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-cpu-benchmarks-fx-63008350-i7-4790ki5-4690ki3-4130g3258-oc/

The OP's cpu is a good cpu, will it run novigrad at 60fps constantly? no it won't, will an I7 do that? yes it will.

Some zones in the witcher 3 are so dense with detail it will bottleneck the cpu.
Reducing vegetation draw distance and non playing characters will offset the problem, so before upgrading if the op wants to spare some money he should try and reduce those options first.

I am going to check out this tool also, to see if there is an easy way to edit the config files and maybe reduce cpu utilization a bit further
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-hunters-config-offers-easy-access-graphical-options/

 

[rahal]

I have a 4590 (since I don't intend to overclock) which is barely faster than your 4460 and I don't see any 30s fps in novigrad. It's a smooth 60fps like everywhere else.

But then I'm playing at 1080p with a gtx 970 not 1440p. You aren't going to get 60fps on ultra in witcher 3 with a 970 no matter the cpu (though it may help).

 

[Gallarian]

Just upgraded from an i5-2500k to an i5-6600k.

The difference in MINIMUM frame rate is huge. With the 2500k, I'd drop to 40fps in some areas of Novigrad, but with my new 6600k I never see an FPS number below 65.

My maximum FPS is still the same, but the increase in min FPS has made the game run a lot smoother.

 

[SigilFey]

Someone is lying, and it ain't me.

Lucky me I have some evidence to back my claims, instead of calling to my aid my son's i3.
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-cpu-benchmarks-fx-63008350-i7-4790ki5-4690ki3-4130g3258-oc/

The OP's cpu is a good cpu, will it run novigrad at 60fps constantly? no it won't, will an I7 do that? yes it will.

Some zones in the witcher 3 are so dense with detail it will bottleneck the cpu.
Reducing vegetation draw distance and non playing characters will offset the problem, so before upgrading if the op wants to spare some money he should try and reduce those options first.

I am going to check out this tool also, to see if there is an easy way to edit the config files and maybe reduce cpu utilization a bit further
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-hunters-config-offers-easy-access-graphical-options/

This is precisely what I have been suggesting since the beginning. I'm glad we were able to arrive at a consensus on something.

---------- Updated at 09:10 PM ----------

Just upgraded from an i5-2500k to an i5-6600k.

The difference in MINIMUM frame rate is huge. With the 2500k, I'd drop to 40fps in some areas of Novigrad, but with my new 6600k I never see an FPS number below 65.

My maximum FPS is still the same, but the increase in min FPS has made the game run a lot smoother.

Also in response to @jones1988,

The i5 6000K series would be a viable upgrade from a 4460, but I would recommend waiting until you could save up for a higher-end i7 6000K series. That would give you a significant boost overall. Prices will begin to drop in about 3 months' time.

 

[ZZantal]

This is precisely what I have been suggesting since the beginning. I'm glad we were able to arrive at a consensus on something.

Wow such damage control, I remember something more like: CPU/GPU communication problems, CPU/RAM communication and "flash the bios" which ultimately can screw someone's computer up for good especially in the case of the OP who came here for advice in the first place, so I would assume he doesn't really know the risks involved.

Oh and high cpu utilization is not a sign of bad optimization, which is something internet peasants are throwing around quite a lot these days without really knowing how optimization on software is actually done.

 

[SigilFey]

Wow such damage control, I remember something more like: CPU/GPU communication problems, CPU/RAM communication and "flash the bios" which ultimately can screw someone's computer up for good especially in the case of the OP who came here for advice in the first place, so I would assume he doesn't really know the risks involved.

Oh and high cpu utilization is not a sign of bad optimization, which is something internet peasants are throwing around quite a lot these days without really knowing how optimization on software is actually done.

I made several mentions that it would be in the OP's best interest to tweak both the OS and the game rather than upgrading. The posts are right here in the thread.

The advice I gave on the BIOS flash was solid, and I would give it again in a heartbeat. BIOS updates, for both mo-bos and video cards, often include multiple optimizations over older versions that allow for better regulation of voltage, hardware sequencing, and temperature control. It can affect the way the CPU, GPU, RAM, and VRAM communicate. It can offer drastically better stability between hardware separated by generations or take better advantage of newer peripherals.

Computer companies, either for brands or custom builds, do not always put the correct BIOS versions in their systems. I've seen multiple instances (Dell, Acer, Sony...) in which there is simply a blanket BIOS written for all of their hardware that is used in various models of PCs and laptops that often severely limits the performance or stability of a system when used for anything intensive (like gaming). I have seen other instances in which the BIOS used was blatantly incompatible with the hardware installed. Manufacturer reference software/firmware is always the best option for stability.

Flashing BIOS is not something that you want to do regularly, true. But there are situations, like this one, where it's a very viable option and may be the solution to the problem. And it isn't rocket science. Modern BIOS flash software usually takes care of everything for you, and it's finished in a matter of moments. (Far cry from the early 90's, in which you'd have to manually throw jumper switches and hook an an external unit up directly to you motherboard.) Now, you simply read up, follow the instructions, don't rush, and don't make mistakes. I completely disagree with the sentiment that users should cower in terror when they need to troubleshoot a possible hardware conflict or do something that requires them to "get it right" the first time. Sometimes, that's what life requires. I say they do the learning and tackle the problem head-on.

It seems you disagree. You're welcome believe whatever you wish.

Bye! :welcome:

 

[ZZantal]

Or maybe do a quick google search and find out 99% of what posted was irrelevant instead of copy pasting stuff from internet or some half understood notions read here and there.

When you hear hoofbeats, most likely it is horses not zebras.

Why am I still arguing with someone who thinks that high cpu utilization necessarily means bad optimization?
Because in a forum section where getting things wrong could potentially ruin someone else's pc or system, being right and thorough is key.

Even a moderator told you that a bios flash isn't that smart, especially as a first recommendation or without proper knowledge of the issue at hand, which you couldn't have from a single post of the op.

It seems you just can't or won't understand it.
And you are not welcome to believe whatever you wish if you then start giving advice based solely on your beliefs.

 

[DXMG]

I gotta say, flashing the BIOS is about the worst advice I can think of for someone who just wants to know about CPU options.

Flashing BIOS is for fixing major hard locking system ending issues, not for tweaking performance. Even with the new hand holding flashing utilities and failsafe BIOS backup/restore things and all that, you are still talking about a procedure that can render a system completely unusable. it is NOT to be taken on lightly, and not to be done for any reason other than fixing a major issue that is known or at least suspected to be fixed by a BIOS flash.

All it takes is a brown out, AC coming on at the wrong time, the cat accidentally steps on your power strip, etc. Too damn risky to do just for the hope that you might gain half a FPS.

OTOH, slapping an i7 in there would instantly and very noticeably increase performance, especially minimum FPS numbers.

 

[Gallarian]

my screenshot in witcher 3

---------- Updated at 01:46 PM ----------

really really strange, when I just started up the game and start to run, the CPU usage is 50-60% and 60fps
just when I run back and forth in the same area for a few times it starts to lag and CPU went up to 90s% just like the above screenshot and fps drops to 30-40
Is it a bug or what? the frame rate is not playable

P.S. when I leave that particular area the frame rate goes back to 60 and CPU goes down to 60-70%......is that area bugged?

Is your problem like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L85yadDHx0

 

[SigilFey]

Is your problem like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L85yadDHx0

It certainly seems to be what he was referring to, which we all know is prevalent on a lot of systems across the board, so it's almost certainly a software issue.

What I don't care for is the fact that his CPU maxes out, but the video card is practically idling. A disparity like that says hardware issue to me.

---------- Updated at 07:51 PM ----------

I gotta say, flashing the BIOS is about the worst advice I can think of for someone who just wants to know about CPU options.

Flashing BIOS is for fixing major hard locking system ending issues, not for tweaking performance. Even with the new hand holding flashing utilities and failsafe BIOS backup/restore things and all that, you are still talking about a procedure that can render a system completely unusable. it is NOT to be taken on lightly, and not to be done for any reason other than fixing a major issue that is known or at least suspected to be fixed by a BIOS flash.

All it takes is a brown out, AC coming on at the wrong time, the cat accidentally steps on your power strip, etc. Too damn risky to do just for the hope that you might gain half a FPS.

OTOH, slapping an i7 in there would instantly and very noticeably increase performance, especially minimum FPS numbers.

And a bolt of lightning has a chance of hitting the earth and running up a grounding wire to fry hardware right through your surge protection. And it doesn't even have to be raining. (Lost a router to that...) Life is quite unpredictable at the best of times. Fear profits people nothing.

On the same token, I myself stressed the importance of taking time to research the process, read up, and ensure that the correct BIOS version was being used. I don't need to reference anything; everything I am saying is based on decades of first-hand experience. I could waste time and search the net for 5 articles that claim you should never flash your BIOS, and 5 other articles that claim your should flash it at least every 6 months. I have put together my own PCs since the late 1980's. I've personally watched the evolution of both hardware and software. I've made countless mistakes, even managing to completely kill two systems along the way, and I've learned from each and every experience. I've also listened to a million different opinions about what you MUST do and what should NEVER happen. Not interested. I know exactly what can and cannot be done and what the risks and benefits are. I know exactly what effect BIOS has on a system and when BIOS could potentially be a problem. And no one is required to take my word for it. You can go out and take the word of any other nameless host of a supposed technical website at face value. Be my guest. Never heard of SEO? Do you know how many pieces of bad advice I've found on tomshardware.com? Have any idea of how many manufacturer-suggested tweaks from Nvidia or ATI have completely...not worked...at all? The internet is a source of free information, not qualified information.

The process of flashing BIOS is certainly not limited to known issues or the release of new hardware -- like any coded language, improvements are made constantly and affect many functions of a PC. Most people with significant performance issues don't even realize that the problem is often their components not communicating between each other efficiently, and the only way to rectify it is by updating the ROM.

Like any situation, you should not be updating or upgrading anything -- drivers, front-ends, OS, or firmware -- unless you are encountering a problem. The key to stability is: "If it ain't broke..." But to encounter a problem such as above (which is solid evidence of a CPU being pushed to a wild extreme while all other system components are plugging along normally) it's foolish not to address the most obvious potential source -- basic input/output regulation.

If the problem exists only with games making large amounts of procedural calls to the CPU (TW3 and GTA5, in this case), but almost all other processes for other software is a non-issue, the pattern is already developing. The two software titles are creating almost exactly the same irregularity with exactly the same process despite their engines being independent. The CPU is not maintaining a steady input/output performance in only this specific situation. There is no guarantee that the flash will fix it, but there is a very reasonable possibility that it will, in this case.

Either way, the computer will not suffer from upgrading to a recent, manufacturer-specific BIOS. The process is nowhere near as scary as many make it out to be. It's dangerous, yes. So is spraying a wasps' nest, stacking expensive china on the top shelf, or driving on an expressway at 70 mph in 2-4 tons of moving steel. Check your meters first if you're living in an area that suffers from power outages, don't do it during a lightning storm, and lock the cat in the bedroom first. If we're gonna get on with life, eventually we've gotta make the jump.

(Oh...and definitely don't do any significant work on a powered PC while someone is running a vacuum in the next room. That's...how system casualty no. 1 occurred. It became a $1,500 end table in our dorm room.)

 

[shaiwan]

My 2cents:

1. Most newer processors are more than fast enough to handle today's games. Upgrading processor will yield minor performance gains if any.

2. Graphics card is by far the most important component. If you are going to upgrade anything, upgrade to the latest graphics cards such as Nvidia 980 series. This will show you the biggest gains.

-- make sure your power supply is large enough to handle the upgraded components, AND make sure your PC case is long enough to accept a 16++" graphics card