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Should weather go back to affecting both sides of the board?

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Muffliato

Moderator
#21
coralzombie;n10185722 said:
However, a card mechanic that moves hostile weather from your side of the board back to the other player's side would add more flavor and tactic.
This does sounds like an interesting idea. Kind of like Bridge Trolls except more powerful.
Would make playing weather riskier, but not as much as double-sided weather; a compromise.

(I'm almost certain I've seen this suggested before, but can't find the thread.)
 

Riven-Twain

Moderator
#22
coralzombie;n10185722 said:
a card mechanic that moves hostile weather from your side of the board back to the other player's side would add more flavor and tactic.
A turn in the weather, eh? Well, I like the idea.
 

SentryOmega

Poser
#23
hydra66;n10173902 said:
I'm aware that this is a topic that considers whether taking a few steps back would be a good thing. What are players thoughts on unilateral vs weather effects affecting both sides? Beyond the witcher 3, I didn't play gwent when weather affecting both sides was a thing.

Theme wise, Ragnarook affecting only one side of the board only doesn't seem right. If you call down the apocalpyse, you'd better also be facing the consequences. Theme wise bilateral weather effects promote attrition through weather along with mitigation of effects though preparation (taking creatures with frost immunity, ability to survive in rain, armor). SK in particular could have fun with self damaging effects whilst the dwarves would just get drunk to ignore it (replace with boons).

Does this just become a game of who can put down their preferred effect last?
The weather changes are not theme-wise, they are balance-wise. If you make weather double-sided, it will only be used by factions which are immune to weather (NONE at the moment, which is even more steps back) or used by factions which benefit from wounding self (like Skellige Greatsword). In other words, ALMOST NOBODY will benefit from using weather. Which was exactly what CDPR tried to balance.
 
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Alexandr-87

Poser
#25
Yes it would be good and it will change all the strategies used now. It would be so cool!
Because, logically, during the battle your fighters are mixed with enemies, so you can't apply weather only on your enemies.
So it would be realystic and logic move.
 

coralzombie

Junior Member
#26
If they add that mechanic then it seems to me the best place to put it for balance is to make a neutral card like First Light but with the options of "summoning a random bronze from your deck or send hostile weather to the opposing player. Call the card "weather vane" or something.
 

coralzombie

Junior Member
#27
SentryOmega;n10187752 said:
The weather changes are not theme-wise, they are balance-wise. If you make weather double-sided, it will only be used by factions which are immune to weather (NONE at the moment, which is even more steps back) or used by factions which benefit from wounding self (like Skellige Greatsword). In other words, ALMOST NOBODY will benefit from using weather. Which was exactly what CDPR tried to balance.
The non-bronze weather cards are a bit too powerful for what they can do over a period of turns and what they can force your opponent to do. If they had to be adjusted to achieve greater balance then adding risk to them is the right way to go but you cannot neuter them by making the risk too high. Something like a flat value damage formula seems right to me. Perhaps making them do a flat single instance of 3 damage to your highest ally when played from the hand. Probably wouldn't discourage people from playing them. Maybe could be used to get out of the way of a bad scorch.
 
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iamthedave

Junior Member
#28
coralzombie;n10207812 said:
The non-bronze weather cards are a bit too powerful for what they can do over a period of turns and what they can force your opponent to do. If they had to be adjusted to achieve greater balance then adding risk to them is the right way to go but you cannot neuter them by making the risk too high. Something like a flat value damage formula seems right to me. Perhaps making them do a flat single instance of 3 damage to your highest ally when played from the hand. Probably wouldn't discourage people from playing them. Maybe could be used to get out of the way of a bad scorch.
Ragnaroog needs a board with a target on all three rows alive for four turns just to out-point Olaf. With even marginal row-stacking that increases to 5 turns just to achieve parity. People are scared of gold weather but it often doesn't cause as much of a swing as people think it does. Add to that missed damage points from armour or units dying early, ubiquitous weather-clearing (which now heals to rub salt into the wound) and gold weather often doesn't pay for itself. I still think Skellige Storm might be the best weather card all in all.

I think weather overall is in the best place its been for a long while. It works as a mechanic to build decks around with lots of units that have synergy with it, but it doesn't overwhelm and there's lots of ways to play around it. A flat damage formula isn't a good idea though. Let Blood Moon/traps do that.
 

coralzombie

Junior Member
#29
iamthedave;n10209992 said:
Ragnaroog needs a board with a target on all three rows alive for four turns just to out-point Olaf. With even marginal row-stacking that increases to 5 turns just to achieve parity. People are scared of gold weather but it often doesn't cause as much of a swing as people think it does. Add to that missed damage points from armour or units dying early, ubiquitous weather-clearing (which now heals to rub salt into the wound) and gold weather often doesn't pay for itself. I still think Skellige Storm might be the best weather card all in all.

I think weather overall is in the best place its been for a long while. It works as a mechanic to build decks around with lots of units that have synergy with it, but it doesn't overwhelm and there's lots of ways to play around it. A flat damage formula isn't a good idea though. Let Blood Moon/traps do that.
Pair gold weather with hailstorm. and you see the implications of how powerful it is. What I suggested is not a nerf, just a tactical change that has purpose.
 

Mancoon1980

Junior Member
#30
Two sided weather ❄️ could only work again if units were not all agile. Plus if weather was brought on by mages I imagine it could be more contained
 

Bondonkadonk

Poser
#31
Not a fan of weather in general, personally. It's never been a playstyle I enjoy playing (I don't enjoy high control decks because I feel like I'm removing the fun from other people), and I don't enjoy playing against weather either. Saying that, I still think weather is at a fairly good place right now, especially now that we have boons as well that can overwrite a weather on your side. Keeps things a little more interesting that just weather > first light.
 

iamthedave

Junior Member
#33
coralzombie;n10233132 said:
Pair gold weather with hailstorm. and you see the implications of how powerful it is. What I suggested is not a nerf, just a tactical change that has purpose.
I say again; it requires a long round for gold weather to pay for itself. You can literally ignore gold weather if the round is only going to last two or three turns, or treat it as a bronze card. And there are a plethora of ways to shut gold weather down flat, and get your lost health back into the bargain, with cards that have extra utility if you didn't need the weather clear.
 

ser2440

Junior Member
#34
Has anyone who agreed to this change been around during the closed beta? :p

If no, you have no idea xD

My main deck was Foglets, WH, Eredin, Ragh nar Roog at the end, Merigold's Hailstorm, Woodland Spirit, Caranthir, etc. Ragh nar Roog finisher basically guaranteed a victory for you. All WH were immune, so were Drowners and Ancient Foglets. Granted it was more consistent but it also made for a terribly imbalanced game. It is far more balanced the way it is now. And no, just because it is on one side does not mean it necessarily only affects that. It might be that the other side is immune, like the Wild Hunt which doesn't fear Frost, nor is affected by it. For all you lore fans ;)
 

TrompeLaMort

Junior Member
#35
Suggestion for Homecoming: make boons/hazards affect both sides again.

One thing that I always liked about Gwent, and it amounted to most of the strategy in Witcher 3 (besides being very flavorful), was the fact that most lane effects affected both sides of the board. I think that it allows for a lot of strategy, especially when rows matter. You can try to be aggressive and play your units on different rows than the opponent, or you can try to play safe and play on the opposite rows.

If they want to make rows matter, and not only have people playing cards on random rows, I think this would be a cool addition. Cards like Kambi could work only on its row and the opposite row; maybe full moon could cast itself on your row and blood moon on the opposite row, etc.

I'm not saying that all weather should be symmetric, but having symmetric effect is a good way of introducing a further mind-game and making movement units more interesting and important.
 

TheNotoriousThree

Junior Member
#38
Yes!
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It adds alot of depth. They can just give Wild Hunt units, Foglets and other faction cards immunity to certain types of weather. They could give heatwave immunity to desert soldiers too, like Magne Division for example, or Venendal Elites.

Edit: Don't let weather reset all units to 1 though, keep the current weather mechanic, maybe give it a little buff... but make it affect both sides. Buffing weather would mean making sure that it doesn't get too powerful though... yeah tricky topic.
 
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