Side quest rewards and roleplaying

[Has_Neyn]

Sorry for the confusing title, I will explain further in the post.

Okay, so like many others, I would consider myself a completionist when it comes to playing games, which means that I will have to complete every single side quest in the game.

However, I was worried about the rewards of the side quests conflicting with the ability to roleplay.

For example, if I want to roleplay as someone who only does things to benefit himself, doing sidequests and getting nothing (besides XP) would go against the roleplay of that character. What's the point of helping somebody if they will not offer you anything in return? This is was in the Witcher 3, where the only reward for completing most side quests was XP. This became a problem because when I tried to a realistic playthrough (Ciri being Geralt's top priority), I ended up skipping a lot of the side quests.

In Cyberpunk 2077, I don't want to skip any content, however, if my character doesn't get any in-game reward, that goes against that selfish/greedy roleplay. In order to keep immersion and not break character, I would not have to do any side quests at all because it would be a waste of time. That would suck because it means that I'm missing out on a lot of content.

This isn't about the reward, it's about the REASON why you're doing a certain side quest. If my character only wants money, then there should be a potential reward for money when completing side quests. If my character wants to rise up and make a name for himself, then respect should be offered as a reward. It's the reason why you do things to help people in the game.

I would often find myself helping as many people as I could and doing all the side quests in games like Fallout, even though my character was strictly supposed to look after himself first.

Of course, I'm still going to do as many side quests as I can, however, having a reason to do side quests other than just being helpful will add immersion and satisfy other roleplaying aspects of the game.

 

[CyberBrett]

From what i gather you will be selfish when doing side quests . V will be doing it for increased reputation which lets you get better gear from better stores and better jobs from better Fixers ( as well as money i guess ). You don`t have to be helpful or even like the NPC`s your helping because your only doing it for yourself .

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

This became a problem because when I tried to a realistic playthrough (Ciri being Geralt's top priority), I ended up skipping a lot of the side quests.

Yep, the main problem with TW3 was exactly the high amount of suspension of disbelief it required. Both in this case and with everything being level gated.

99% CP2077 will have the same issue.

 

[Rawls]

99% CP2077 will have the same issue.

I think since the level mechanics are separated into street cred and traditional XP that should not be a much of an issue (in theory). Since traditional XP is mostly tied to the main quest, it should be possible to focus more without feeling under leveled. Now, there may still (and almost assuredly will) be narrative pressure to focus on side quests that may well feel like distractions from the main quest. But that's all about player choice.

 

[Suhiira]

V will be doing it for increased reputation which lets you get better gear from better stores and better jobs from better Fixers ( as well as money i guess ). You don`t have to be helpful or even like the NPC`s your helping because your only doing it for yourself .

Very much this.

If you want to be a successful (and wealthy) edgerunner you need the right rep, that rep is BY FAR your most valuable asset.

I'm assuming this applies in CP2077.

 

[Jimbo_G]

I loved the way you could turn down rewards in TW3. It gave you a sense of emotion even though Geralt had been stripped of emotion although they never made it entirely clear whether that was the case. So for example, with the griffin quest in white orchard you could refuse the money because you thought he was an A-hole and his money was gained from the hard work/misery of others. Or you could take it because you needed the money and you had earned it.

So I think what they are trying to do is make you think about each individual situation. Yes you are a mercenary but are you completely heartless? if someone has just lost a child, will you take the money or let them keep it so they can bury their child? I think its an interesting take on the morality system without the whole red= bad and blue = good system.

However, thats the good thing about RPG's is you can play through the first time being a completionist and then you can define which quests you want to finish based on your character background. The Witcher 3 gave you more than enough content to level to 30 + even if you wanted to skip some of the quests.

 

[Nithing]

I understand the concern, but surely for roleplay reasons you have to expect that you're not going to be able to take every side quest.
If you see a building on fire and someone's shouting, "help, my baby's inside" you just have to make a decision without reasonabley expecting to get unique flamethrower as a reward.
Can paragons expect every mission of dubious morality to have a caveat that the victims are bad people and the proceeds will fund a children's hospital?

The best we can hope for is quests which can be completed at any time or can be properly turned down rather than simply ignored and which don't mar the quest log with a 'failed mission'.

 

[BluPixel]

Sorry for the confusing title, I will explain further in the post.

Okay, so like many others, I would consider myself a completionist when it comes to playing games, which means that I will have to complete every single side quest in the game.

However, I was worried about the rewards of the side quests conflicting with the ability to roleplay.

For example, if I want to roleplay as someone who only does things to benefit himself, doing sidequests and getting nothing (besides XP) would go against the roleplay of that character. What's the point of helping somebody if they will not offer you anything in return? This is was in the Witcher 3, where the only reward for completing most side quests was XP. This became a problem because when I tried to a realistic playthrough (Ciri being Geralt's top priority), I ended up skipping a lot of the side quests.

In Cyberpunk 2077, I don't want to skip any content, however, if my character doesn't get any in-game reward, that goes against that selfish/greedy roleplay. In order to keep immersion and not break character, I would not have to do any side quests at all because it would be a waste of time. That would suck because it means that I'm missing out on a lot of content.

This isn't about the reward, it's about the REASON why you're doing a certain side quest. If my character only wants money, then there should be a potential reward for money when completing side quests. If my character wants to rise up and make a name for himself, then respect should be offered as a reward. It's the reason why you do things to help people in the game.

I would often find myself helping as many people as I could and doing all the side quests in games like Fallout, even though my character was strictly supposed to look after himself first.

Of course, I'm still going to do as many side quests as I can, however, having a reason to do side quests other than just being helpful will add immersion and satisfy other roleplaying aspects of the game.

You could do a completionist playthrough as your first game and then hardcore roleplay on your second, no?
I find it easier and more satisfying to roleplay when I know where a quest leads to and how my choice will impact the story.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Sounds like your problem has more to do with the existence of XP as an abstract gamey reward that replaces what could be instead a range of varied in-fiction/in-world rewards that might or might not align with your character's interests.

Unfortunately there is no real solution except for eliminating XP or making its role very minor vs. other stuff. For you, I guess the best option is to accept and integrate XP into the reality of whats going on: you ARE getting something for helping people.

It sucks, cause one has to pretend XP is actually money or whatever thing that explains how that gets your char better things, but that's the only thing we can do I guess.

Whats good though is that later there'll be mods that do away with XP and replace it with something better I bet

 

[Suhiira]

It sucks, cause one has to pretend XP is actually money or whatever thing that explains how that gets your char better things, but that's the only thing we can do I guess.

I tend to think of XP as what it's short for "experience".
You do stuff, you learn what does, and doesn't work. Maybe pick up a good idea from a team member or something. Eventually you've gain enough knowledge/practical experience you're just plain better at what you do.

Think of it like the military. You enter basic training you don't know squat, when you graduate you know the basics. After a couple years of doing stuff you get a promotion to the NCO ranks. After 8-10 years perhaps you make senior (staff) NCO. Stuff that use to require time and effort to do correctly becomes second nature.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

If you see a building on fire and someone's shouting, "help, my baby's inside" you just have to make a decision without reasonabley expecting to get unique flamethrower as a reward.

That's what I've been saying since forever: devs shouldn't give rewards for every single quest. Some quest should have rewards, some shouldn't, some should just put V in troubles. This way, as a player, you don't accept everything, you calculate risks before. How many times we started a quest that looked shady thinking "oh well, worst case scenario I'll get exp and loot"?
Problem is, every single game gives you a reward.

 

[CyberBobber]

Side quests are the reward itself, for those who want to play the game longer. Usually side quets makes the game easier, what is something I dont like.

 

[DontEatMe]

In Cyberpunk 2077, I don't want to skip any content, however, if my character doesn't get any in-game reward, that goes against that selfish/greedy roleplay. In order to keep immersion and not break character, I would not have to do any side quests at all because it would be a waste of time. That would suck because it means that I'm missing out on a lot of content.

This isn't about the reward, it's about the REASON why you're doing a certain side quest. If my character only wants money, then there should be a potential reward for money when completing side quests. If my character wants to rise up and make a name for himself, then respect should be offered as a reward. It's the reason why you do things to help people in the game.

I agree with the idea that the reasons for doing something are important, but not every story fits with every reason. I think having things forced in where they don't belong is much worse than not always having a reason to do everything.

If you don't think there is a good enough justification that your V would do a certain side quest, don't do it. Don't stress over not seeing everything the first time through. If CDPR does a good job, you won't be able to do everything in one playthrough anyways. And everything you miss the first time through is one more thing to make the next run stand out, which ought to give you more playtime before things start getting stale.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

I tend to think of XP as what it's short for "experience".
You do stuff, you learn what does, and doesn't work. Maybe pick up a good idea from a team member or something. Eventually you've gain enough knowledge/practical experience you're just plain better at what you do.

Think of it like the military. You enter basic training you don't know squat, when you graduate you know the basics. After a couple years of doing stuff you get a promotion to the NCO ranks. After 8-10 years perhaps you make senior (staff) NCO. Stuff that use to require time and effort to do correctly becomes second nature.

Oh absolutely, I think of it that way too, It's just that for the OP's potential character, and for most people really, things, and especially dangerous ones, are rarely done purely for the learning experience they might give.

In terms of role playing, it sounds like a solo/merc saying "well im just gonna risk my life and do all these jobs just to practice and get better", which is kinda dumb . And also I have doubts anyone would even offer jobs or opportunities like that without other rewards at all so that's also weird.

I think XP only quests could maybe be isolated only to very spontaneous and improvised situations, something where your char wouldn't have much control and planning capacity to weight pros and cons and accept or decline.

 

[G30M1]

I'm currently playing TW3 for the first time and have the same issue as OP. I want to do all the extra missions cause they're fun, but at the same time I'm like... Geralt seems to really wanna find Ciri. What on earth am I doing making him do all this extra stuff?

But the thing is, at the beginning when I had no money, I found myself desperately doing side quests in hope of money because I needed it. Which made it feel like how I think a witcher is supposed to feel - doing jobs for money. (which at the beginning felt weird to me because it seemed like Geralt wouldn't be that poor considering he'd most likely have been doing jobs for a while now. What on earth did he spend all his money on before I took control?)
However, after a short while I found myself swimming in gold with less things I wanted to buy. Which makes me feel like I should be skipping side quests to go find Ciri instead.

So, here's my hopes on Cyberpunk.

This is a world of consumerism. And a world where you can constantly upgrade your body to the next best thing. My hopes, is that we are consistently truly in want of new things.
I think a really fun way to do this, is to have items exist the same way they do in real life. Don't have everything available and existing at the beginning of the game. Let's say you reach a certain point in the game and OH LOOK new ads showcasing a brand new item you haven't seen before. Now you're curious and want to get it because it's not the thing you've seen in the shop since day one.
Typically in games you see all the items - but oh no, you aren't level 23, you can't actually use it. Guess you'll just have to keep grinding and wait to get it.
Having it completely unknown to the player until it's actually available would be more interesting, I think. Or at the very least, have it unavailable in shops and just have ads teasing the new items that are 'coming soon'.

 

[Metropolice]

I think in the end you can't invent the wheel anew in terms of meta quest design.
Some things you can try to make differently but if we really wanted open dynamic "quests" that could be a big thing for your character or net you nothing at all besides a muttered "thanks" (if at all) you are looking at Multiplayer and RP in it where other players can give you tasks. Not even like quests you accept via menu.

Someone asks you to do something and maybe they promise you something specific or unspecifc in return. Rest is up to you to take the risk. Is it a person or faction with a reputation? Someone with a bad rep? How does (s)he look or talk? Legit or not? Worth your time? Can you afford to kick their arse if they play you?

That's just an example of how dynamic "quests" or tasks can be in an online setting.

For SP where all has to be manually added and can't be dynamically made up by other players based on an actual demand, you'll always hit limitations eventually.

That's what I mean with not always being able to invent the wheel anew.

If CP eventually goes for an MP mode that somehow allows "RP" and a player economy via free trading or dropping of items you might get to see a lot of what people mentioned here naturally.

Time will tell.

 

[Harthwain]

I think in the end you can't invent the wheel anew in terms of meta quest design. [...] For SP where all has to be manually added and can't be dynamically made up by other players based on an actual demand, you'll always hit limitations eventually.

You can change quest design though. Streamline the player's interactions too much and it won't be more interesting than saying "yes" or "no". Give players as many options as you can - within reason - and it will be much better individual experience. It will mean extra work, true, but isn't that the core of an RPG?

Problem is, every single game gives you a reward.

That's so because otherwise people wouldn't care enough. The alternative is making them care, which is possible. With good writting. Besides, there is nothing wrong with giving people EXP as a reward, even if they fail.

 

[Suhiira]

Besides, there is nothing wrong with giving people EXP as a reward, even if they fail.

I don't know about you but I usually learn far more when I fail to do something then when I succeed.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

My problem with EXP as a reward from quests (and not from actions, no problems with that) is that it works as a simple bonus you can spend in random stuff. It's not really experience, it just fills a bar till you get a point to unlock (i.e.) a perk for guns, even if you haven't used guns at all in that quest.

-I helped that guy finding his wife -> now I'm better at shooting (nonsense)

-I shot 1000 times with a shotgun -> now I'm better at using it (makes a lot of sense)

Experience (and not exp point) as a reward from quests works on the player and not on the character. Give me a good variety of quests were it can happen that you accept a shady quest which puts you in troubles. Now, as a player (or as a character) I've learned not to trust everybody. I haven't learned how to get better prices from vendors or whatever.

High suspension of disbelief is what keeps RPGs from evolving to their next step.

 

[Suhiira]

My problem with EXP as a reward from quests (and not from actions, no problems with that) is that it works as a simple bonus you can spend in random stuff. It's not really experience, it just fills a bar till you get a point to unlock (i.e.) a perk for guns, even if you haven't used guns at all in that quest.

Ideally it should function similar to Skyrim, you do things and you gain experience in the skills you actually use. The "problem" with this is it requires a method to gain new skill sets, unless, like Skyrim, you have them all from the start. That of course has it's own issues, you can "do it all" (maybe not well, but you can).

Given the restrictions on a video game (i.e. no GM to adjudicate) you're stuck with picking the "best" of several sub-optimal choices.