Silent Protagonist?

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Very much this. I loved Adam Jensen's voice and Geralt's voice and Agent 47's voice...but if you'd offered my more content to DXHR or Witcher 2 or Hitman Blood Money, I probably would have taken you up on your offer in a fast instant. Probably.

For an open world game, I think a core of voice dialogure would be fun, but to voice every line your character might speak in two sexes...I just can't see that not cutting into content or gameplay options.

We can't know what resources it'd eat up or if VO's preclude a larger world, vehicles, etc. If it really does, then I'm with Wisdom and I'll reluctantly play a dumb mute. But no voice goes down a lot easier in FP than it does in TP. My guess is we get one male and one female voice. That's not pushing resources given how many RPG's routinely do that. And there is the fact they made TW2 for so bloody cheap.
 
Well, yes. But this is not TW 1 or 2, it's open world. Plus, finite time and resources means no matter what they have to allocate only to certain things. So, yes, it -will- eat up resources. But, those resources might already be fully committed in the design doc, there might be no point to putting mor time into things liek vehicles or bigger world after a certain point, and voices, done well, are cool.

I would give up vehicles pretty fast, but that's because I find the driving part of games like SR2 and SD pretty tedious, outside of missions. I have certain cool things I'd like to do with vehicles, but they are in no way necessary for open-world. IN MY OPEN WORLD. Of course.
 
Its not just a matter of budget, there is a limit to how much you can put on a disc, even for Next Gen... we may not know what that limit is, but there is definitely a ceiling...

So, Bethesda or Rockstar made it possible to have huge, open worlds on today's systems (especially the very limited consoles) but CDPR will have a problem in 2015, when the specs both for PCs and consoles go way up?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

Our always-developing technology lets you do things on bigger scale with fewer resource and technical limitations, not the other way round. I expect CDPR to be able to do more game development with less resources. Especially considering that labour here is cheaper than in US or Western Europe.
 
So, Bethesda or Rockstar made it possible to have huge, open worlds on today's systems (especially the very limited consoles) but CDPR will have a problem in 2015, when the specs both for PCs and consoles go way up?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

Our always-developing technology lets you do things on bigger scale with fewer resource and technical limitations, not the other way round. I expect CDPR to be able to do more game development with less resources. Especially considering that labour here is cheaper than in US or Western Europe.

Sorry I couldn't read the whole thread, but what I gather is that you guys are talking about the eternal dilemma of whether we should have a fully voiced protagonist in Cyberpunk 2077 or not.

As you know, I prefer non fully voiced, for the simple reason that it makes the game more flexible. Dialogue lines can be added or removed or edited at any time, even in the later stages of game development. I do like voiced protagonists, but the problem is that traditionally we have only been given a set of one or maybe two (male and female) voices to choose from and we simply may not like them, and that could ruin our game experience.

Voice acting makes the game more cinematic, but it also means that all scripts and dialogue lines have to be ready at a certain point to get everything recorded on time, while the rest of the game is made. For certain games where decision making is not a basic game element (action games for example) this is not a problem. You simply play through a script. But on computer RPG''s where you're supposed to have options, and these options should open up new gameplay opportunities available only on certain conditions, the dialogue trees grow exponentially and voice acting costs (and time) may rise through the clouds.

However, as you say, maybe by 2015 CDPR will be able to pull this off. Maybe we can have different sets of fully voiced lines, for both genders. By then, maybe audio compression technology will improve and so will memory management. Consider that relatively bland looking games like Dragon Age: Origins took up around 20 GB. Imagine how much could be done, efficiently, with 20 fucking GB? CDPR already did something impressive by removing most loading screens from TW2. If they improve their code maybe they can extrapolate that to other features and have an open world game with TW2's gameplay.

Most of the time it's not even about hardware limitations, but about using the hardware appropriately. Many modern PC games wouldn't really need such advanced gaming hardware if they were properly designed and optimized. But we know how the industry rolls, we end up buying Beta versions and then paying again for the "stable" version through patches and DLC.
 
I mean, they surely want to challenge themselves and have their own ambitions.

Look at TW1. They got the engine from Bioware, but they tweaked and enhanced it so it actually look damn impressive even today.

Then, with TW2, they challenged themselves - and it was really a challenge, they got into financial problems at one point - and developed their own engine WHILE DEVELOPING THE GAME. And what an engine that is!

So, I don't see why they wouldn't challenge themselves again and aim high. They already stated that their ambition is to make an open-world game where the story really matters. And knowing their attention to detail, I'm sure they will do what they can to deliver an experience that will match their ambitions.

Unless their artistic/design vision will be to have a silent protagonist. In this case, I'm ok with it as they would probably have their reasons to go for that.
 
So, Bethesda or Rockstar made it possible to have huge, open worlds on today's systems (especially the very limited consoles) but CDPR will have a problem in 2015, when the specs both for PCs and consoles go way up?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

Our always-developing technology lets you do things on bigger scale with fewer resource and technical limitations, not the other way round. I expect CDPR to be able to do more game development with less resources. Especially considering that labour here is cheaper than in US or Western Europe.


Fallout 3 and Fallout NV both had silent protagonists, I haven't played Skyrim, because again, I don't do fantasy, but I was under the impression it featured a silent protagonist as well.

As for Rockstar... Again, 1 character, male, 1 voice.

If you look at Saints Row 2, as awesome as it was, and and cool as having 6 voice choices was, the game was half as long as as GTA4 in terms of actual missions and gameplay. and Saints Row 3, which had 7 voice choices, was half as long as SR2. Granted they were using a new engine, but 7 voice choices, and not only was the game shorter, but LOTS of features from SR2 were scaled back or removed altogether.

Look, I like voiced protagonists, I agree it adds immersion and awesomeness to the game. I am just saying if it cuts into even one area of actual gameplay, or reduces the aspects of even one feature, then I would rather it be cut and the protagonist be silent. A silent protagonist also opens up so much more potential dialogue options....
 
A voiced protagonist gives the writers more tools to work with. Dialogs are enhanced by gesture, expression and VO's. Look at the stiff manikin in DA:O, it hardly moves or has facial expression. With no voice those gestures are out of context, so you get to observe a lifeless doll interacting with more lively and animated characters. I find the contrast jarring. Compare that to Geralt rolling his eyes at Sile, or his subtle smirk when he cracks a dry joke. This adds more nuance to the overall narrative.

I will say Volsung probably has the best argument for a silent protagonist so far - it might allow more time for the writers to edit and tweak the story. But again, having two voiced protagonists is not the hurdle some are making it out to be. I give you *drum roll*.....Mass Effect. Games have been doing it for some time now.
 
Yeah about the whole Disk Space is irrevelenf, unlike some people I cant afford to replace my computer everytime a new shiny game comes out cause some guy wants to crank up the power to 11. People bitched about a 20gig game and I damn sure no one will be happy about having to sit through a mammoth that's bigger than that. Why, because not every one has a kick ass computer or lives in a area where the infrastructure was developed to support high speed Internet. Where my grand parents live, the fastest download speed was 1md per second and that was at a community college, 10 miles out side of that you might be looking at dial up.
 
Yeah about the whole Disk Space is irrevelenf, unlike some people I cant afford to replace my computer everytime a new shiny game comes out cause some guy wants to crank up the power to 11. People bitched about a 20gig game and I damn sure no one will be happy about having to sit through a mammoth that's bigger than that. Why, because not every one has a kick ass computer or lives in a area where the infrastructure was developed to support high speed Internet. Where my grand parents live, the fastest download speed was 1md per second and that was at a community college, 10 miles out side of that you might be looking at dial up.

I get around 300Mb/hr, if I'm lucky.

I don't want them to compromise the game because of people with slow internet connections, but I do want them to take it into consideration. That means they need to improve the patch delivery service so that we don't get a repeat of some of the early fiascos with the Steam updates, where every minor update meant most of the game re-downloaded. And installing from DVD needs to mean "Installing from DVD", not "getting a code and then installing from a website".
 
Yeah about the whole Disk Space is irrevelenf, unlike some people I cant afford to replace my computer everytime a new shiny game comes out cause some guy wants to crank up the power to 11. People bitched about a 20gig game and I damn sure no one will be happy about having to sit through a mammoth that's bigger than that. Why, because not every one has a kick ass computer or lives in a area where the infrastructure was developed to support high speed Internet. Where my grand parents live, the fastest download speed was 1md per second and that was at a community college, 10 miles out side of that you might be looking at dial up.
First off, i didn't mean to offend. However do bear in mind that the majority does have decent internet. For instance central europe is looking at 100 mbps. I myself have 60. I download 20gigs in about 20-30 minutes but that doesn't matter what does matter are the following two.
a) Program for the majority, adjust for the minority.
b) 2 years ago standard internet speed in the country i lived (luxembourg) was 4mbps, now it's 8, in two years it might be 16. This is an example of how fast these things become the norm, hence why i say the faster broadband at affordable prices gets plus extended coverage for areas which are lacking the more the entertainment industry will adjust.
This is also the reason why digital sales for the pc dwarf the retail box sales.
But, i don't want to be all doom and gloom for you. You know what they did when dvd players weren't everywhere and the majority had cd drives yet your game was too big for one CD? Multiple cd's, that's what. Plus there is all these double layering methods and neat little tricks.

Oh and maybe I'm misreading you but diskspace has nothing to do with the prowess of your rig. You know? Just because a game is huge in size doesn't mean you cannot run it.
In fact, before i derail this topic even more, voice acting might take some space but at the same time all it does is take you longer to download/use dvd(s) to install the game. And if it is really bigger than 20gigs in the end, i'm sure you could make room for it, on your hard disk and in your heart.
<3
 
First off, i didn't mean to offend. However do bear in mind that the majority does have decent internet. For instance central europe is looking at 100 mbps. I myself have 60. I download 20gigs in about 20-30 minutes but that doesn't matter what does matter are the following two.
a) Program for the majority, adjust for the minority.
b) 2 years ago standard internet speed in the country i lived (luxembourg) was 4mbps, now it's 8, in two years it might be 16. This is an example of how fast these things become the norm, hence why i say the faster broadband at affordable prices gets plus extended coverage for areas which are lacking the more the entertainment industry will adjust.
This is also the reason why digital sales for the pc dwarf the retail box sales.
But, i don't want to be all doom and gloom for you. You know what they did when dvd players weren't everywhere and the majority had cd drives yet your game was too big for one CD? Multiple cd's, that's what. Plus there is all these double layering methods and neat little tricks.

Oh and maybe I'm misreading you but diskspace has nothing to do with the prowess of your rig. You know? Just because a game is huge in size doesn't mean you cannot run it.
In fact, before i derail this topic even more, voice acting might take some space but at the same time all it does is take you longer to download/use dvd(s) to install the game. And if it is really bigger than 20gigs in the end, i'm sure you could make room for it, on your hard disk and in your heart.
<3
No offense needed, its just well, despite what some say, parts of USA are backwards ass shitholes, but hey any one want a Boiled Peanut. Yeah just to point it out when I was staying with my grandparents it took 3 days to down load a 10 gig file. Which no one could do anything else involving the internet, that's verizon for you at their fastest, out there I've since moved but I reconize that fact.
 
No offense needed, its just well, despite what some say, parts of USA are backwards ass shitholes, but hey any one want a Boiled Peanut. Yeah just to point it out when I was staying with my grandparents it took 3 days to down load a 10 gig file. Which no one could do anything else involving the internet, that's verizon for you at their fastest, out there I've since moved but I reconize that fact.
I kept thinking about this article here
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-internet-access-in-america-disaster/
 

That article could be describing me, and I'm not in America. This isn't just an American problem, and it'll probably be more than a couple of years before it goes away, so I think that it'll be valid for people to have bandwidth concerns over large games. The fact that a lot of people DON'T have these issues doesn't mean they don't exist and shouldn't be addressed.

But we seem to be drifting way off-topic :)
 
That article could be describing me, and I'm not in America. This isn't just an American problem, and it'll probably be more than a couple of years before it goes away, so I think that it'll be valid for people to have bandwidth concerns over large games. The fact that a lot of people DON'T have these issues doesn't mean they don't exist and shouldn't be addressed.

But we seem to be drifting way off-topic :)
I do agree, i'm just trying to convey where the industry is currently gravitating towards.

Point taken, i shall retreat. ;P
 
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