Since the game is in "development" now, it's right time to ask the question about mods

[Guest 2364765]

Since the game is in "development" now, it's right time to ask the question about mods

Will it be properly supported this time?

As someone who actively modded Witcher 3 i have tracked the "development" of the topic of widely understood modding from before W3 release through the release and up to the end of it's lifetime.
TL;DR is: CDPR started big with promises of Skyrim like modding capabilities then gradually backed away from the topic only to massively underdeliver without any open explanation unless pressured on the forums.

Since, unlike Witcher 3 - CP2077 is developed on "when it's done" basis. Can we expect that _proper_ modding tools and support are part of the "when it's done" philosophy? Or should we expect same if not less level of modding capabilities for the CP 2077 as the Witcher 3 offered?

I honestly wish that CDPR took a lesson from Witcher 3 about what makes the game last in the long term. Skyrim, for a 2011 game is still being relevant with 35k players actively playing as of writing of this post whilst TW3 has around 25k players (bear in mind it's still summer sale so probably anyone who hasn't bought witcher 3 yet has done it just now). Can we possibly imagine witcher 3 having still healthy and as big player base in 6 years? Probably not and we all can guess why. (which is a shame since on base level it's better than Skyrim up to a point beyond comparison).

Assuming Cyberpunk 2077 will be at least as good as Witcher 3 is, it's longevity would be secured by having actual modding tools and support, which would include:
- Actual Redkit with proper editing capabilities in all aspects (non existant in Witcher 3)
- Proper import export support for ALL file formats used by the game (heavily limited and broken in Witcher 3)
- Proper support for script mods, including more flexibility, modular design for decreasing script conflicts and at least barebones documentation (heavily limited in Witcher 3)
- Proper support for loading non-script mod files (the infamous witcher 3 mod limit)
- Actual official way of adding NEW content to the game (DLC method for witcher 3 was invented by the community to mimic the way how CDPR added new content - we were not told how to do it or whether it was actually possible)

In the end, if CDProjekt RED wants to ensure longevity of their game and treat modding community seriously and with respect i think above points is a must and i also think that at some point in time they should reach out to the modding community to design parts of the modding pipeline together in order to achieve optimal results.

If you care about this - all i'm asking for is to keep this thread alive. Also an official statement from CDPR would be a nice thing to have _eventually_ be it yes or no.

 

[Reaperrz]

Well-put, really. Would be nice to have at least an actual statement from them, unlike before.

 

[georgetziotis]

Its ya boi

 

[Sken]

I feel everyone including CDPR feel that to extend the games life, proper modding tools aid with that cause.

I think CDPR had fully intended to provide proper modding support, but when I look at it retrospectively, I can assume some of the reasons why its not available.

CDPR originally intended to make RedEngine available to the mass market, like CryEngine, Unreal, Unity and so on. This gen has seen that more developers are moving toward building their own engine, instead of using Unreal, which was heavily utilized last gen.

This shift in the market seems to have changed CDPR's plans on releasing their engine, with it no longer being mentioned, and this shift has likely impacted the modding tools being available to mass market.

Through various interviews, CDPR have talked about how powerful RedEngine is, but at the same time not being user friendly to newcomers, without the necessary UI and documentation for non-employees to use. A look at the Modkit that was released for the Witcher 3 in a very basic state indicates that the tools are just not ready for your average modder, and a lot of work would still need to be done.

The Witcher 3 was a mammoth undertaking, the game being delayed twice, and employees pulled away from C2077 to help complete that project, along with the expansions. If the W3 had met its original release date, maybe things would have been different. There is also the fact that W3 saw many patches over the last 2 years, which if not required, some of those resources may have been put toward a Modkit.

C2077 from the sounds of it is even more ambitious, and an even bigger undertaking, and that's where the focus is, as they are building their next major franchise, which will be with them, as they say 'for years to come'. Gwent being a large, but smaller project, is a better use of their time, and financially a much better proposition then modding tools.

There is also the fact that the RedEngine is iterated quite drastically on an ongoing basis, with learnings from W3 being poured into C2077. The improvements were quite noticeable in the Blood and Wine expansion.

I feel that to release enhanced modding tools, for an engine changing so rapidly, would require a level of support they likely cannot provide at the moment.

If a proper modding tool is part of the plan for C2077, awesome, and if W3 is patched to support the latest engine and mod support even better.

As much as I would love to see it, with the work they have in front of them, I just can't see it, but I sincerely support you and anyone with a voice requesting CDPR create and release a proper modding tool as they had originally intended.

 

[DarthRaver8686]

When cdpr said that cyberpunk would be a big part of their company for years to come, i almost feel like maybe they want to include mods to help that cause. This game would be perfect for mods and is just begging to have mod support. But theres a part of me that also thinks that statement of years to come is also hinting at maybe an online version of night city...similar to how gta v does it. I think that type of game in the night city setting eith cyberpunk would be amazing and would compliment the single player version perfectly to extend life of the game.

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

I was thinking the same thing good post. Good modding tools will be key for Cyberpunks long term life span. Also not many AAA devs support modding since CDPR claims to be different this would be a good start.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well,

A) CDPR doesn't worry about extending the life of their games. They tell a story and move onto the next. It's worked well for them and even if it hadn't, still their vision and method. They will extend Cpunk's lifespan with amazing DLC and sequels.

CDPR says they are different because they -are- different from other studios. Using that as justification to get them to do what you want, will not work. They have a vision and they stick to it. Modding, typically, has not been part of that vision. They had a vision when they weren't AAA and they still have it now that so many people bought their stuff they have AAA budgets. Modding wasn't a part of W3 for a reason. Not a priority.

Maybe this will be different, but don't get your hopes up. They already have a LOT to deal with.

B) If this turns into an anti-Witcher modding rant thread it'll get locked right quick and PONIES FOR ALL.

 

[DarthRaver8686]

Are people not allowed to share their opinions on this forum anymore??? Seems like every time you do or try to give input on a thought u had about this awesome upcoming game, theres a small group of indiviuals on this forum who like to swoop in and shoot everyone down for giving their opinions or because people like to speculate about a game that ISNT OUT YET. Gives a very negative vibe on this forum sonetimes that to be honest, makes it feel like your opinion doesnt matter. Just because your a moderator, someone whos been a member of this forum since 2013, or someone who played the pnp rpg of cyberpunk doesnt make you all knowing. Pretty sure the devs want everyone to be able to come here and feel like its an inviting place where people can have fun and engage in stimulating conversation about a really awesome game that were all waiting for very intently. And again its not the majority, but a select few who. It kinda gets old to be honest.

 

[Sardukhar]

And again its not the majority, but a select few who. It kinda gets old to be honest.

This is a frequent hot topic. It gets people banned when they get excited. This comes from, as you noticed, my years of experience here.

You are mostly free to share opinions, but not totally free. Certain areas are historically problematic.

For example, if you read the Rules, you would find out that publicly debating moderation, (the Blue text) is Not Allowed.

The un-blue text, well, that is my opinion, which I am, within limits, absolutely free to have here.

And I disagree that mods should be a priority at all for CDPR or that they would add the level of value to the game that is hoped for. And I run 50+ mods for Fallout and Skyrim.

I run...none? for Witcher 2 or 3.

As for your opinion mattering, hard to say. CDPR reads these forums all the time, that's all I know. What they take away from them and whose ideas they take, I have no clue. Maybe your opinion matters, maybe not. Subject dependent.

Opinions vary. Mine's allowed too and you can debate it. Unless you see Blue text, in which case, the substance of that (turning this into an Anti-Witcher Mod thread) you may (publicly) not.

 

[Suhiira]

Modding is damn useful (nearly essential) for open-ended (i.e. the game doesn't end when the main story-line is completed), story-lite, open world games. Since this sort of game really depends on player interest to succeed.

CDPR however makes (so far at least) story-heavy games that are not particularly open-ended, and only one has been (relatively) open world.

We think (based on what CDPR has said) CP2077 will be story-heavy and open-world. We assume it will also be open-ended.

While we all want a game we can continue to play for years (i.e. Elder Scrolls/Fallout) is this the sort of game CDPR wants to make?

If so, strong modding support is essential, if not then what we got with Witcher 3 is sufficient.

 

[Valas991]

And I disagree that mods should be a priority at all for CDPR or that they would add the level of value to the game that is hoped for. And I run 50+ mods for Fallout and Skyrim.
I run...none? for Witcher 2 or 3.

That's because, like the OP stated, Witcher games are simply better to begin with. However, this does not mean they do not require mods and that they cannot be enchanced.

Or maybe you don't use mods, because due to lack of proper modtools, no mods of a caliber you'd use have been made.

 

[Murzinio]

They have a vision and they stick to it. Modding, typically, has not been part of that vision.

Yeah, except D'Jinni, promoting fan-made adventures made in it, Redkit for Witcher 2 and Witcher 3 pre-release promises... (surprise - if you promise something to boost the hype and pre-order sales, and then don't even care to explain why you didn't do it, gamers get angry) Modding was part of the "vision" when it fitted them for building an image of gamer-friendly company. While Redkit wasn't ideal, it was still a powerful tool, they did almost 180 turn on mod support with Witcher 3. So that no modding support "vision" is just 2 years old, while the first game with good mod support was released 10 years ago. I get that it was a business decision, they're a company after all. But still, if you're not sure about something - don't promise it. I guess they will not say anything this time because they learned from this mistake. But considering how much money they made on Witcher 3, it wouldn't be hard to dedicate some people and resources to release a proper tool for CP, even some time after release.

And I disagree that mods should be a priority at all for CDPR or that they would add the level of value to the game that is hoped for. And I run 50+ mods for Fallout and Skyrim.

I run...none? for Witcher 2 or 3.

Well, I guess the thread can be closed now, if you don't use mods and don't want to, obviously no on else does.

 

[Guest 2364765]

And I disagree that mods should be a priority at all for CDPR or that they would add the level of value to the game that is hoped for. And I run 50+ mods for Fallout and Skyrim.

I run...none? for Witcher 2 or 3.

Modding is an important part of any PC game and should be supported properly, especially if studio claims to support it. They are exactly what keeps Skyrim being relevant over 6 years past release.
You don't run any Witcher mods because there aren't any good ones.

70% of witcher modding is literally people doing reshades and calling them mods (top friggin kek), next 20% are nth+1 color swaps using .env edits and remaining 10% are mods that swap around existing stuff over and over. There's nothing that ADDS value to the game, there's no "official" way of adding new, seamless content to the game and most meaningful existing mods also run into conflicts with each other limiting the audience since for the most part it's too technically illiterate to solve scripting conflicts on their own and thus they'll skip most mods that might've been at least "decent".

I'd find it hard to believe that if Witcher 3 had mods of magnitude similar to Enderal, Skywind or Skyblivion you wouldn't be interested in trying them out and most likely finishing them from start to end.
The issue i'm underlining is - Witcher 3 has none of that and if we don't ask devs to take it under consideration on early development stages - neither will CP2077.

 

[georgetziotis]

I will say that cyberpunk needs modding so i can fufill my dream of making Cyber garl vinland fighting raiden from metal gear.

 

[Eltyris]

Mods would add incredible amount of content to this game. Games that focus on customization, interaction, variety of assets and playstyles, benefit the most from it: sounds familiar? Witcher was fairly limited by it's core design and I doubt it would have come near TES level, but Cyberpunk is a different matter entirely.

As I see it, this is the only way for CDPR to reach that mainstream financial success ( they're looking for), without compromising their own code of ethics: if they even consider putting micro transactions in MP, they'll end up crucified.

Active modding community for your game is essentially free support/DLC release for years and years to come. And it helps the sales of your own post release content...modders use those same assets as requirements for their own.

And aside from years of free marketing ( for AAA this typically includes at least half the cost it takes to produce the game and social networks aren't going away any time soon) and company/IP reputation, developers can also see directly how to improve their design in future and even hire some of the best talent out there, already familiar with their own engine.

It's kind of bizarre how most games that tried to copy Skyrim ended up worse for it, but they all overlooked how important it is to have accessible and powerful mod tools for the success of your game.

Please, CDPR: come to your senses about this. Any investment you make in modding tools, will be repaid hundred times over.

 

[DarthRaver8686]

I agree entitely. This game needs modding support. I can see why it wasnt a priority with the witcher 3 just because that was geralts story and imo a masterpiece and maybe its just better left how it is. Cyberpunk on thw other hand is an entirely different animal. I mean very likely one of the first things were going to be doing in this game is customizing our characters so right off the bat this game is all about style and customization. Theres just so many things that modders can play around with. They make more cybernetics for one...which is one of my most anticipated parts of the game. I feel like cdpr are going to swing for the fences on this one. Its like Mike pondsmith said over on the cuberpunkgame subreddit..."were pulling out all the stops on this sucker." Hopefully that means mod support too. God im so hyped for this game!!! Im gonna go play a little neon chrome now haha

 

[traderain]

Even if it has many online features they can definetely support modding. That's just an excuse. Look at minecraft for example.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't care about modding or mods. At all. Even while being a PC only gamer. In my experience they create more hassle and trouble than actual worth (at least to people not initiated enough to how these things work), and most often whilst fixing a problem there's two new ones.

If CDPR opts for mods, and I think they probably should, the first priority should still be the core game. And it's longevity covered via diverse and comprehensive core design on gameplay, world interactivity and narratives. The ability to modify should come last on the list and in a manner that in no way compromises the core design (e.g. Bethesda might have good modding tools for their games, but their games also seem like designed carelessly and leaving room for modders to fix things, where even their casual fanbase asks "why on earth did they do this"... that shouldn't be the case), if anything it should be vice versa.

So yeah. If there's going to be moddingtools for CP2077, good for those who use it, but do that stuff post launch of the core game (and I'd hope the same kind of separation and post launch treatment for all multiplayer stuff too).

 

[jsr08]

Opinions vary. Mine's allowed too and you can debate it.

Agreed, well said. The difference I see though, between others' opinions here and yours, is that whoops I made a personal attack. That's not going to stick around

[Sard Edit] Don't do that.

 

[Guest 2364765]

It's probably right time to step in and cut this short as the OP.
Not like i disagree with the general dislike towards the way how forums are moderated, however by turning this thread into personal witch hunt warzone all you will achieve is getting this thread locked and buried which will be a great disservice to the cause we're trying to push here and keep alive as long as possible.

So yeah, for the time being keep your personal preferences in check, please.