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Skill balance absolutely awful

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Gurg90

Forum regular
#1
Skill balance absolutely awful

Almost every part of the game looks really brilliant, but i cannot understand, why skill balance so disgusting? Compare to the sword built, the sign built looks absolutely useless, especially on the high levels, in Hearth of Stone sign built became almost unplayable. The main problem is sign damage - it doesnt scale with level or items (maximum u can get just few percent bonus to static amount of damage), besides that, perk damage doesn't affect by sign intensity, 50 dps from the top tier perk looks really ridiculous. So, why developers don't pay attention on skill balance, it's pretty easy to fix, but I didn't notice any changes in skill system since game realise, and it's pretty sadly for me.
 
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tat2teel

Rookie
#2
I used to use a Sign build that focused on Igni, but they nerfed it. It was Op as hell, so I kind of understand. I see signs as mostly utility/support for the other branches now. I really like the skill that makes Aard do damage, because I use it a lot and knockdown is nice. The Axii one that turns an enemy into a friendly for like 10 seconds is pretty nice as well. Quen is still helpful on higher difficulties, for the healing. Yrden is basically required for some wraiths and it's alternate is kind of funny. I agree though, the signs need some balancing with the other trees.
 
Cheylus

Cheylus

Senior user
#3
Igni was OP, I agree about its nerf, even if I suffered from it.
Investing in the last two raws of the Sign skill tree was completely useless to my knowledge. Now that Signs aren't used for damage, investing any point in Signs is even less useful (the exception being healing Quen).

I love this game but oh I dislike the skill trees with a passion.
 
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AvengerGrim

Senior user
#4
Meh, I just pick what I feel will give me more fun while playing, screw the "OP build", the game is already easy without the need to use one... And as it stand I feel that the sword path is the most boring, so for me it's a non-issue. But if we have to talk balance, then yeah, I guess you are right.
 
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ShinGnosis

Senior user
#5
Welcome to my world.

I played Witcher 1, 2 and all of 3 with a sign character. Loved it.

Now I come back to HoS with 1.10 not really understanding what they've done. Painful to say the least, in the end I decided to re-spec and go for a sword focused build like everyone else. Sigh...

Igni was OP in vanilla Witcher 3 I agree, but they brought it down too far. I went up against the 5 ghosts in HoS with master-crafted everything and +200% sign damage. Signs did absolutely jack all.

You have to go the swords + oils and potions route now.
 
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pebeem

Senior user
#7
Unfortunately the not-so-good sclaing also affects bombs...even more than signs imo - ie superior grapeshot bomb does minimum to *no* damage to most enemies on NG+
 
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Exentryk

Forum veteran
#8
Devs are basically killing the variety in their combat. People complain that Witcher 3's combat is Quen-Slash-Dodge ad nauseam, and this sign nerfing doesn't help their cause.

Regarding Igni being strong, you guys have to realise that Igni doesn't work against all enemies. Another point is that Igni is the only real damage dealing option for Sign builds. If they removed Igni from the game, Signs build have nothing that deals anywhere close enough damage compared to swords. The highest would be Yrden alt with 200-300 damage per zap. It's like imagine in a sword build, they nerfed sword strikes so you couldn't use them, and only had to use the crossbow for 200-300 damage per hit.

Now, they've nerfed Firestream to being completely useless, and Yrden has been made mostly useless as well. As a Sign build, your back up was to use Archgriffin decoction. But they're nerfed that as well.

On the other hand, you can have 6000+ dps on a sword build, and be invincible on an Alchemy build. Seems really fair and balanced, right? -.-
Devs really just hate Sign builds. =/
 
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RageGT

Forum veteran
#10
Even with maxxed Signs Intensity and Skill tree, I'd suggest using Superior Petry's Philter for 100% Special Sign Effect and there you have Signs built OP'ed again. Hell, it's even OP for my sword build with signs as support.
 
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Exentryk

Forum veteran
#11
RageGT said:
Even with maxxed Signs Intensity and Skill tree, I'd suggest using Superior Petry's Philter for 100% Special Sign Effect and there you have Signs built OP'ed again. Hell, it's even OP for my sword build with signs as support.
Click to expand...

Superior Petri doesn't always apply the burn effect. Try to burn the Novigrad soldiers.
 
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Genoscythe

Rookie
#14
I just don't understand why they force us to put so many points into a skilltree to unlock the upper skills and then people say "you're not meant specialize!". Of course we f*cking are! There is witcher-mage specialized gear, there is a full skill tree for signs. A sing build should be as good as any other build, I use a mod that scales aard damage and yrden damage with sign intensity too, because the devs seem to be unable to finally implement it.

EDIT: Hell, they even invented the griffin school to make it logic that there are sign-specialized witchers. think like that: they can take my swords, they can take my armor, but they can never take my magic!
 
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Abjatha

Rookie
#15
Yeah, you need to use some overhaul mod, if you want some what balanced and challenging gameplay or just don't use overpowered stuff. It really feels like bunch of skills and consumables have placeholder values and CDPR never got around to balance them. Kinda sucks, but at least there are mods out there to fix most of it.
 
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ShinGnosis

Senior user
#16
Genoscythe said:
I just don't understand why they force us to put so many points into a skilltree to unlock the upper skills and then people say "you're not meant specialize!". Of course we f*cking are! There is witcher-mage specialized gear, there is a full skill tree for signs. A sing build should be as good as any other build, I use a mod that scales aard damage and yrden damage with sign intensity too, because the devs seem to be unable to finally implement it.

EDIT: Hell, they even invented the griffin school to make it logic that there are sign-specialized witchers. think like that: they can take my swords, they can take my armor, but they can never take my magic!
Click to expand...

My point exactly. Why create the sign tree and mastercrafted griffin gear and then make it useless. I'm certainly pissed off with cdpr and not afraid to say it. I liked my signs and my sign build. Now I have to focus on swords and potions like everyone else because it's the only build that works now.
 
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RageGT

Forum veteran
#17
Well, I hated to play Mages since ever. I loved Knights, Warriors and specially Archers. I even learned some Sindarin to RP my Elven archer in a NWN PW LotR based, prequel to MMO's but with strong roleplay and DM's where only 60 people could play at a time (if the owner had a good server). Good days those. Sorry, but I don't feel your pain. Since TW1 I used signs as support only, mostly to kill Bloedzuigers from a distance, stupid exploding maggots kin to Rotfiends.

But I wished that those who enjoy playing pure Mages could have their builts working accordingly, even if a bit far off from what a Witcher is, from their description in the lore of the books.
 
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ShinGnosis

Senior user
#18
RageGT said:
But I wished that those who enjoy playing pure Mages could have their builts working accordingly, even if a bit far off from what a Witcher is, from their description in the lore of the books.
Click to expand...

Nerfing signs now at the last minute is just not in character with the rest of the series. Witcher 1 and 2 worked excellent with a sign build, all of witcher 3 (except maybe Imlerith) was absolutely fine with a sign build. Now with HoS and 1.10 all of that is out the window it seems. Very frustrating. If the entire series had been swords and potions and sign as modest support I would have been fine with it. But now I've played the entire series with signs and in the very last expansion they tell me that my play-style is "wrong". Very frustrating...
 
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Gerudon

Rookie
#19
Honestly, by now they might as well take back the sign nerf. But combat balance for the whole game is wacky, specially in NG+. Dogs and Wolves, even 10 levels below you, are among the most dangerous enemies when they come in packs, while a Leshen 10 levels higher than Geralt can be staggerlocked with fast attacks.

In terms of skills I'm still not sure, if they fixed all of them. During the first couple of patches in May and June a lot of the skills didn't do, what they were supposed to or did nothing at all. So you could make a good build and then find out, that most of the skills didn't work anyway.
 
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Genoscythe

Rookie
#20
RageGT said:
Well, I hated to play Mages since ever. I loved Knights, Warriors and specially Archers. I even learned some Sindarin to RP my Elven archer in a NWN PW LotR based, prequel to MMO's but with strong roleplay and DM's where only 60 people could play at a time (if the owner had a good server). Good days those. Sorry, but I don't feel your pain. Since TW1 I used signs as support only, mostly to kill Bloedzuigers from a distance, stupid exploding maggots kin to Rotfiends.

But I wished that those who enjoy playing pure Mages could have their builts working accordingly, even if a bit far off from what a Witcher is, from their description in the lore of the books.
Click to expand...

TW1 sign build were worthwhile, you could destroy large groups of enemies with them. they only did not work for the final boss. But thanks for feeling with us. There is a saying in game design: If you want to implement something, implement it right or dont implement it at all. I think this fits for sign builds in TW3
 

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