Skill Checks Increase/Scale with Level? (2.0)

[koalahugs]

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At first I thought skill checks in conversations were simply increased a bit, but it turns out they actually scale with your level. So, ahaa…. I have no idea how to plan my playthroughs now. I hate to say it, but I’m really not into this feature. It feels too much like a carrot and a stick.

E.g. I was doing “Happy Together” (the tortoise guy), and I needed… 11 Cool to make a snarky comment in the final convo. Strange… I needed 5 Cool/Reflex to verbally parry and reposte with Evelyn at Lizzie’s, but now I need 11 just to be sarcastic with the cop?

At first I thought, “Well that’s silly but whatever,” but I’m now I’m reading other crazy examples including not being able to start the Brendan SCSM quest because they don‘t have enough Body to move the skip out the way. Or not being able to merge Delamain because the INT skill check is like 19 or whatever.

 

[MrDarth0]

Yeah, CDPR has to remove this fast. It completely ruins the game IMO. There are missions you literally cannot complete now because of this.

As a player, the game now punishes you for leveling.

And the fact they haven't mentioned this in any of the promo streams, videos or messages just shows that they intentionally didn't want people to know about level scaling pre-release, cause they knew its going to be controversial with many players.

 

[Didacgomez]

People need to realize that level-scaling at its root is an anti-grinding feature... so the optimal way of playing 2.0 is to limit your level-ups. You no longer have to worry about enemies at all, they keep pace with you.

 

[Crimsomrider]

I personally despise this change, plain and simple.

Can actually say it's one I hate with ultimate passion because it's implying my V is becoming dumber and dumber, rather than smarter after leveling. CDPR is telling me that meeting all the new people, gaining knowledge from them and learning new stuff is somehow meaningless due to yet another shallow gimmick they've decided to jam into 2.0.

Best case and example, Jackie's Arch bike. Default requirement is Tech 6, V gains a level and now it's Tech 7. What... did the bike evolve in the meantime? Is it a transformer? Thanks CDPR for implying that my V is getting stupider by leveling up, when it should be the opposite. If anything skill checks should have a base and become easier the higher level we are.

So what do I do now? Simple, I save attribute points so that whenever a BS skill check comes into play due to this junk scaling I am prepared to invest (just like I was prepared for Jackie's bull**** Tech increase).

Honestly all this auto-scaling/auto-balancing/auto-randomization feels so stupidly cheap and lazy, but this one takes the cake for sure.

 

[Spooke714]

It pretty much forces you cheat/mod, max your character out and then you don't have to deal with it.

 

[koalahugs]

People need to realize that level-scaling at its root is an anti-grinding feature... so the optimal way of playing 2.0 is to limit your level-ups. You no longer have to worry about enemies at all, they keep pace with you.

Well I’m not worried about enemies, I’m worried about skill checks during conversations and story missions. Are you saying that avoiding NCPD events and GIGs will keep skill checks reasonable for all the story stuff? Have I basically spoiled my game now by grinding during Act 1? :/

Maybe I missed it, but when does any of this get explained in the game?

 

[Didacgomez]

you saying that avoiding NCPD events and GIGs will keep skill checks reasonable for all the story stuff?

I uninstalled 2.0 after reaching level 6 or 7 because i didn't like it. But my assumption is that its better to don't do gigs or events or hoard attribute points till you find a skill check (i guess is possible,didn't try that)... from what people is saying, you can get locked of at least one side quest and soft-locked in alternate solutions/paths.

 

[koalahugs]

I uninstalled 2.0 after reaching level 6 or 7 because i didn't like it. But my assumption is that its better to don't do gigs or events or hoard attribute points till you find a skill check (i guess is possible,didn't try that)... from what people is saying, you can get locked of at least one side quest and soft-locked in alternate solutions/paths.

The problem is, some of the skill checks you come across are absurdly high, suprisingly early - which means you basically have to grind and accumulate a redundant amount of points, ready to be spent as and when you meet a check.

So I’m not clear on how scaling skill checks are anti-grind when it feels like the opposite. On the other hand, the more you level up, the higher the skill checks become.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

If there’s a balance to be had, I’d love to know what it is

 

[Didacgomez]

The problem is, some of the skill checks you come across are absurdly high, suprisingly early - which means you basically have to grind and accumulate a redundant amount of points, ready to be spent as and when you meet a check.

So I’m not clear on how scaling skill checks are anti-grind when it feels like the opposite. On the other hand, the more you level up, the higher the skill checks become.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

If there’s a balance to be had, I’d love to know what it is

Don't look at me, i think is a bad mechanic that always breaks at some point...with traditional leveling systems at least is in player hands to decide if they want to "suffer" or stomp over content.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Someone checked if access point skill checks scale to player level too?
I'm not sure and I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem they do

So maybe a bug of access points or better I hope, a bug with the other skill checks (I came across a locked door which original was BODY 8, but now is BODY 18. Not sure many will be able to open it, knowing that I'm far to be max level yet^^).

 

[koalahugs]

IS DELAMAIN THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST? Needed 16 INT (this was at level 30):

The only other Act 2 stuff I've done is Automatic Love -> Double Life; as well as some side stuff (which I had to do to get enough Cool points to ask Tom if Evelyn went to Oslo or Osaka - BECAUSE APPARENTLY THAT'S HOW FUCKING COOL TOM IS COMPARED TO EVELYN, AND ONLY NERVES OF STEEL WILL DO WITH THAT LAD).

Anyway, luckily I had 6 attributes to spend here. I could've done the Delamain quest a bit earlier I suppose to get a lower skill check, but, y'know, ludo-narrative dissonance and all that.

Now I wonder if I'll need more INT to talk to Carol about punch cards...

 

[Gusfraba22]

This post really needs to be looked at by the devs... like badly...
Enemy level scaling is one thing, which is fantastic given how some of the gig dialogue interacts, and how much freedom it gives for how you go about your playthrough. But this... the attribute check scaling...

It's needless and over-tuned gatekeeping, most checks in my newest playthrough for both dialogue and for open-world gameplay across the board have either been completely locked out, or i had to scramble to level a specific stat just to not be locked out of a piece of clothing... CLOTHING for crying out loud... (the nomad jacket fwiw, was a 17 body check at level 35, had to use gorilla arms to bypass as i wasn't building into body for my kit)
Prime example, one which led me here in the first place; Bloodsport gig in watson, door inside to the locker room was 12 body, door to outside was 18 technical, that is completely asinine for what they are.

These checks are out of control, and they ruin the immersion with dialogue tremendously, as it blocks you easily unless you hyperfocus on specific stats prior to them. That creates a vacuum in terms of enjoyment that is actually proving to feel malicious in design.

Please isolate and revert this change, it is not even logical to apply this kind of element when the checks were already pretty inflexible to begin with... Or at the very least, implement a hard cap for the various checks, after giving it a bit of thought, there is a slight degree of validity in (if not only in) the data points having a gradual upscale in their req's, as for the rest of them, hard capping them at 12-15 depending on what they are, is not unreasonable.

Added edit: Lousy Kleppers gig in Watson - body check door near front of warehouse required 19 at level 36, and the tech check door inside in the back required 19 as well, complete overkill, most folks playing on higher difficulties are going to spread their stats, not shoot for 20 right out the gate, especially at the early-mid game.
Additional edits for clarity of reasoning.

 

[cartlidge]

Someone checked if access point skill checks scale to player level too?
I'm not sure and I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem they do

So maybe a bug of access points or better I hope, a bug with the other skill checks (I came across a locked door which original was BODY 8, but now is BODY 18. Not sure many will be able to open it, knowing that I'm far to be max level yet^^).

at 3 int and lvl 15 I am finding access points I can access, I do not believe they are affected.

playing a sniper, levelling cool and tech together with cool going first, not having issues with skill checks in those areas (including jackies bike), I am easily out pacing the check requirements/ (currently have 9 tech and 15 cool)

absolutely adoring the handgun/sniper gameplay

 

[LeKill3rFou]

at 3 int and lvl 15 I am finding access points I can access, I do not believe they are affected.

Not sure, I have 3 INT too, so indeed I can't hack any of the access points which is not a surprise... with "only" 3 INT you couldn't before too^^.
But I'm currently in Arroyo (I'm level 35) and I don't find access points which require more than 9/10 INT. Which is pretty much the requirements they have before in this area.
At least nothing compared to the BODY requirements of the locked doors I came across... Like BODY 18 BODY instead of original BODY 9

absolutely adoring the handgun/sniper gameplay

I try a bit stealth handguns, and even without the old "suppressed Overture", a decent Nue with the new high tier supressors work great

 

[Draconifors]

I think it's a really stupid mechanic. It does not make any sense for skill checks to scale with player character level.

"This door requires you to have 6 in Body to get throu -- wait, you're level 20. In that case, this door requires you to have Body 10 to get through. Your Body attribute is at 6, so, sorry, you're out of luck. Should've come here earlier!"

(I picked random numbers for that example.)

 

[Crimsomrider]

Unfortunately your random numbers are not far off

There is a random container in Watson on the parking lot where Tyger Claws and Maelstromers have a little gang war. The container doors start with BODY 6 and scales up to BODY 15 by level 50.

So the game is implying our V is growing old and feeble with each level, yet able to bring down the entire city down to its knees, fight its Legends and become a Legend themself. It pains me to see immersion being broken left and right like this.

 

[cartlidge]

at lvl 15 with 15 cool I have enough cool for the Aristotle reply to delamain, 15 cool does sound rather heavy though,.. but I still only needed only 6 int to hack the netrunner sitting in the chair (which I do not have).

 

[LeKill3rFou]

at lvl 15 with 15 cool I have enough cool for the Aristotle reply to delamain, 15 cool does sound rather heavy though,.. but I still only needed only 6 int to hack the netrunner sitting in the chair (which I do not have).

You had 15 in Cool? Exactly?
I could be wrong, but I think it's like before, when you reach or over level the requirement, it display your current attribute level. It only display how high it really is if you don't reach the level (some kind of "nope", look how much points you miss^^)

I really hope, it's a kind a bug anyway and attribute checks are affected by level scaling while they shouldn't... I can't find any good reason why they would do that on purpose.

 

[cartlidge]

You had 15 in Cool? Exactly?
I could be wrong, but I think it's like before, when you reach or over level the requirement, it display your current attribute level. It only display how high it really is if you don't reach the level (some kind of "nope", look how much points you miss^^)

I really hope, it's a kind a bug anyway and attribute checks are affected by level scaling while they shouldn't... I can't find any good reason why they would do that on purpose.

yeah 15 cool exactly, I think you are right. I'm leapfrogging between cool and tech unlocking tiers in the talent trees so with 15 cool done I am now pushing tech whilst filling out the cool skill tree with perk points

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Scaling skill checks does seem a little.... weird. You need X Body to kick down the door but need more than X Body to do it later. It's nonsensical for this to arbitrarily change. Are we to believe someone runs around Night City upgrading all the doors to be more robust on a routine basis?

Perhaps it's a roundabout way to force players to focus their stat distribution into specific areas. If so it's a silly way to do so.