So, how the hell are we supposed to win against Eist+BoG?

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rrc

Forum veteran
If we choose not to play Eist+BoG [. . .], how are we supposed to beat it? There is no way we can force that combo in R2 unless we commit all our top end Golds in which case, in R3, it will be a humiliating defeat. Going for a long R3 is a sure suicide. On Blue Coin, you can not keep up with the pointslam/removal of SK and win with the card advantage.. I haven't won a single game against this on Blue Coin. On Red Coin, I will just push hoping they hadn't drawn their cards to make them commit that one single card and in the process commiting every single gold. And casually, they will play Eist+Leader for 50 million points and win R2 and in R3, they still have plenty of point slam with Harald, Totem, every single freaking 5P card which plays for 8.

I mean, it is hopeless and pathetic to play against this. It is almost the same as Second Wind when MM happened. For almost 9+ months we have this SK warriors dominating the meta. Season after season.. month after month.. From SW to PF to PF to RoS to Ursine to PF to Ursine and so on and now in BoG. If I haven't bought the Journey, I will take a break, but unfortunately I had bought it and want to get to L100. Even though I am not able to play a lot, I am playing as much as possible and this shit is just too much. So, coming to the question.. how to beat this [. . .]?

[Newcomers] play this and still win the games and we could do just nothing. In the last game, I opened with Dunca and the opponent played the-rupture-guy on her in R1 and still won. :cry::cry::cry::giveup::giveup::giveup:]
 
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Guest 4416545

Guest
So far this season im not trying to climb up, im still trying the new things of this patch (mostly hidden cache but is so dead i think its hopeless to keep trying) so i havent fight "good" eist players, yet i found arachas swarm is a good counter to them, in long round 3 you can play around the 12 points damage and make it less powerfull, and you just need to control brokvar and harald and you end up making way more points than them.

Out of that i try what u say, win r1 bleed r2 and get out of them eist + leader yet this mean you go a card down to r3 against sk veterans which means no units on ur side at the end of the match haha, so no clue more than arachas.

Maybe some uninteractive deck?
 
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Against Eist it really just is win round 1 and hope that you're able to successfully bleed round, but overall Gwent seems to turn more and more in to the" Hope that you can win round 1 and can successfully bleed out the most overpowered nonsense in round 2 Card Game".

As for how to fix Eist i guess he either needs to lose his Devotion skill or Blaze of Glory needs to go.
 
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As for how to fix Eist i guess he either needs to lose his Devotion skill or Blaze of Glory needs to go.

Actually, I think it's deployment self-damage interaction with graveyard summoning that needs a review. If the 12 points of self-damage from the typical Eist-BoG combo of GS and Jutta was implemented on summoning, then he becomes a powerful, but not game-changing, card. I suspect there would be many more interesting Eist combos being played if the overwhelmingly powerful one wasn't the default.
 
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Guest 4375874

Guest
pretty much your best shot is to avoid taking any damage lol I know right...against SK? I've perhaps beaten the deck only twice out of several matches but I had to add a defender and use Carapace and beast. If you can avoid having any damaged units for R1, forcing him out will give you a good chance in R2. Of course that's a tall ask and a lot of luck just to beat one deck.
 
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I've beaten it with unitless ST (Madoc-Schirru). Win round 1, give no targets, plenty of tall removal, burn everything, finish with Gord. On blue, you open with the cat.
Edit: of course, this is a degeneracy of its own :D
 
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Surpisingly enough during my recent climb to Pro this month I managed to consistently beat it with a few different decktypes:

- Dwarves: fairly even matchup, especially if you can work around their Longships. Secure R1, then bleed/2:0 them in R2.
- Arachas Swarm is almost an autowin against them, at least in my experience (won 5 out of 6), usually 2:0
- No-unit Eldain also seems to be doing very good against them in R3

Still, even with these positive (or fortunate) experiences, this is a powerplay that should never happen, easy as that. It can make certain matchups absolutely onesided. As I previously described this issue in detail, the setup condition is minimal, the payoff and Leader synergy extremely powerful - just no. The Devotion part needs to go / get changed into something that takes place at least in a different turn other than the initial play.
 
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rrc

Forum veteran
So, basically everyone is saying that Win R1, Bleed R2.. I do that (or at least try to do that) and lose R2 with a card down and in R3 get absolutely destroyed. May be trying handbuff, row-punish, GT with Crushing Trap and Sheldon should be put to rest and use the latest cards. I even tried Dwarfs for a few games and got destroyed by Eist and with Eldain also I could barely win.. (I think I won one game with Eldain)..

May be I need to optimize my decks and highly polarize it or choose a degenerate deck myself.

BTW, what is this Arachas Swarm deck a lot of people are talking about? What is the game plan of that? How does it help in beating this non-sense? Can someone please explain?
 
So, basically everyone is saying that Win R1, Bleed R2.. I do that (or at least try to do that) and lose R2 with a card down and in R3 get absolutely destroyed. May be trying handbuff, row-punish, GT with Crushing Trap and Sheldon should be put to rest and use the latest cards. I even tried Dwarfs for a few games and got destroyed by Eist and with Eldain also I could barely win.. (I think I won one game with Eldain)..

May be I need to optimize my decks and highly polarize it or choose a degenerate deck myself.

BTW, what is this Arachas Swarm deck a lot of people are talking about? What is the game plan of that? How does it help in beating this non-sense? Can someone please explain?
Simple, with arachas swarm you can put a lot of 1 point tokens and buff them 1 or 2 points, so you will get a good number of points but wont have a tall unit.

So the BoG ability wont do too much damage.

Also, with this deck its hard to get bloodthirst, because almost all the units are 1 point and, without bloodthirst, eis wont trigger his deploy ability.

So, problably, Eist will play for 5 points + 12 points of jutta (BoG) and make like 5 damage points, in a total of 22 points. Its a huge value, but almost half the points if he gets total value (5 + 12 + 10 + 12 damage equal to 39).
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
So, basically everyone is saying that Win R1, Bleed R2.. I do that (or at least try to do that) and lose R2 with a card down and in R3 get absolutely destroyed. May be trying handbuff, row-punish, GT with Crushing Trap and Sheldon should be put to rest and use the latest cards. I even tried Dwarfs for a few games and got destroyed by Eist and with Eldain also I could barely win.. (I think I won one game with Eldain)..

May be I need to optimize my decks and highly polarize it or choose a degenerate deck myself.

BTW, what is this Arachas Swarm deck a lot of people are talking about? What is the game plan of that? How does it help in beating this non-sense? Can someone please explain?
That's why I made it clear it's by no stretch an easy win. It puzzles me why so many are claiming it's simple, even if you decide to play wide you are changing your entire deck to beat a single card. Even with that, it's SK....you still have the rest of their shenanigan's to contend with
 
Its all down to R1.
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So, basically everyone is saying that Win R1, Bleed R2.. I do that (or at least try to do that) and lose R2 with a card down and in R3 get absolutely destroyed. May be trying handbuff, row-punish, GT with Crushing Trap and Sheldon should be put to rest and use the latest cards. I even tried Dwarfs for a few games and got destroyed by Eist and with Eldain also I could barely win.. (I think I won one game with Eldain)..

May be I need to optimize my decks and highly polarize it or choose a degenerate deck myself.

BTW, what is this Arachas Swarm deck a lot of people are talking about? What is the game plan of that? How does it help in beating this non-sense? Can someone please explain?
Forget R2 bleed. Its hard to do it successfully on its own merits. Its easier to drag out R1 but win it.
Arachas swarm basically you play a lot of 1 point units and you boost them. You don't go tall but an yrden would be a disaster against it. Against Eist or SK depends. They have a lot of annoying single point pings so its hard to make things stick on the board so you can boost them as finishers. On the plus side because they are 1 point units they can't build bloodthirst easy. Also Yen can backfire because SK has a lot of units on board.
My advise is practise makes better. Just play the game for the fun of it.
 
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ya1

Forum regular
Eist loses hard to both crimes and traps. And PS Madoc. Even the most broken card can't help with the polarized matchups.
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
Eist loses hard to both crimes and traps. And PS Madoc. Even the most broken card can't help with the polarized matchups.
All of those are unitless which is a completely different discussion. That's not polarization or a bad matchup but poor decision making and direction by the devs, every faction has an issue against unitless decks.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
So, basically everyone is saying that Win R1, Bleed R2.. I do that (or at least try to do that) and lose R2 with a card down and in R3 get absolutely destroyed. May be trying handbuff, row-punish, GT with Crushing Trap and Sheldon should be put to rest and use the latest cards. I even tried Dwarfs for a few games and got destroyed by Eist and with Eldain also I could barely win.. (I think I won one game with Eldain)..

May be I need to optimize my decks and highly polarize it or choose a degenerate deck myself.

BTW, what is this Arachas Swarm deck a lot of people are talking about? What is the game plan of that? How does it help in beating this non-sense? Can someone please explain?

Personally, when i go against SK Warriors i try to win R1, but i dont go for a R2 push, i'd rather keep my last say and even cards on a long R3. Of course this is highly dependent of the type of decks you're using.

On the first days of the update, i used Warriors Eist too (but with Patricidal Fury), and i faced many terrible players, who did a huge mistake - they won R1 and tried to push R2. This is really dumb on a Eist mirror, as the most important thing is having last say, and using Jutta to kill the opponent's Jutta for a massive swing. If they didnt push R2 they surely would win, but they just had to be retards and do something that actually decreases their chances of success :shrug:


Regarding Arachas Swarm... basically people found out the deck that i've been (intermitently) playing for like 2 years, variations of MO swarm with 2 bone talismans, Yen and Triss TK. Others argued this stuff wasnt competitive, but that's not the results i had. If i stopped playing it, it was because i got tired of using it so much.

I do admit there are reasons why its more beneficial now: for the good matchup vs SK Warriors others already explained, and the massive buff Blood Moon got (this card shouldnt be organic, it's supposed to synergize with vampires alone), but there are also downsides, there have been metas completely dominated with NG, who always had 0 wide punishment and still this type of decks didnt see much play.
 
The funny thing is, as the season progresses, the Eist+BoG Warriors deck is getting relegated to low Tier 1, more like Tier 2.
As overpowered as the combo is, it turns out to be clunky and expoitable by the opponent with proper play.

This of course does not make this a healthy addition in the game, but at least it is a lot more counterable than I originally imagined.
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
The funny thing is, as the season progresses, the Eist+BoG Warriors deck is getting relegated to low Tier 1, more like Tier 2.
As overpowered as the combo is, it turns out to be clunky and expoitable by the opponent with proper play.

This of course does not make this a healthy addition in the game, but at least it is a lot more counterable than I originally imagined.
define "proper play", maybe I'm just really bad at the game so would love to hear what the counter play to Eist could be.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
define "proper play", maybe I'm just really bad at the game so would love to hear what the counter play to Eist could be.

Its definitely not easy, but its possible. If you deny Bloodthirst, you stop the discard+revive, but not the leader ability revive.

To deny both, you must not have a single target on board. I can confirm this, it happened to me yesterday:
i had last say and only an immune piggy on board, opponent used Eist and his leader ability on jutta, but since it did no damage, it didnt revive (and i still lost, because i wasnt able to target immune piggy too :giveup:)
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
Its definitely not easy, but its possible. If you deny Bloodthirst, you stop the discard+revive, but not the leader ability revive.

To deny both, you must not have a single target on board. I can confirm this, it happened to me yesterday:
i had last say and only an immune piggy on board, opponent used Eist and his leader ability on jutta, but since it did no damage, it didnt revive (and i still lost, because i wasnt able to target immune piggy too :giveup:)
LOL I don't know if that's a great counter, can't win if you have no units on the board :LOL:
 

ya1

Forum regular
define "proper play", maybe I'm just really bad at the game so would love to hear what the counter play to Eist could be.

The counterplay to Eist is to deny the Bloodthirst2. And to SK warriors in general, to trade up some golds in R1/2. You cannot let them win R1 with almost only bronzes. Part of the reason why crimes is so good now: they win R1 with Safecrackes, Justice and a couple of bronze crimes, maybe some flexible gold commitment, and then got a barrage of superstrong and flexible golds with no counters for either long R3 or bleed.

Eist is not really that strong as a deck now. It has very bad matchups with everything T1 and upper T2.

Regarding Arachas Swarm... basically people found out the deck that i've been (intermitently) playing for like 2 years, variations of MO swarm with 2 bone talismans, Yen and Triss TK. Others argued this stuff wasnt competitive, but that's not the results i had.

Idk. Most people who get THE results (MMR2600+) kind of agree that Arachnas wasn't a thing then, and is now, because of buffs and meta shifts. But Arachnas might go down verey easily. All it takes is teching in row punish. It's expensive and bad, but totally destroys Arachna's round dynamics when well placed.
 
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