So, how the hell are we supposed to win against Eist+BoG?

[DRK3]

Idk. Most people who get THE results (MMR2600+) kind of agree that Arachnas wasn't a thing then, and is now, because of buffs and meta shifts. But Arachnas might go down verey easily. All it takes is teching in row punish. It's expensive and bad, but totally destroys Arachna's round dynamics when well placed.

I can agree that Arachas swarm got some nice buffs with spontaneous evolution and the buff to crimson curse (and ekimmaras). And yes, in this meta, going wide is definitely not as risky as going tall, but i still argue that is the case for most metas in the past 2+ years.

I've been on the receiving end, and definitely dont want to be matched with arachas opponents, its one of the toughest matchups, even if im using tier 1 Lined Pockets with drill and freakshow, because paying 2 to kill 1pt drones sucks.

The deck i've had the most success vs arachas is my elf traps, havent lost a single time since the traps completely counter arachas, specially with the spring option. And also my DW deck, since it swarms faster than arachas, then they dont know what to do with their Yen which is usually the biggest pointswing.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

I think the question should not be how to win against Eist+BoG, but when CDPR realizes their mistake and make a correction to this absolutely disgraceful combo?. Is there any other card, that together with leader ability can play for 39 points in just 1 turn? CDPR definition of balance...

 

[ya1]

I think the question should not be how to win against Eist+BoG, but when CDPR realizes their mistake and make a correction to this absolutely disgraceful combo?. Is there any other card, that together with leader ability can play for 39 points in just 1 turn? CDPR definition of balance...

I agree that the card is a bit overtuned but it's not as broken as people (including me) thought at first.

First, you need to slot the 8p Jutta to get full Eist value. That's 4 provisions on top of a 4p mulligan fodder you could have in Jutta's place, making the whole Eist play an equivalent of a 15p card (same as NG Formation is not really a 16p leader as it's full value needs the 8p Affan which makes it a 12p leader in fact - one of the worst leaders currently). So Eist and Jutta alone is like a 17 for 15 play.

Second, to get the full value of 39 you also need to 1) spend the leader, 2) find a tall target, 3) get Bloodthirst2 and 4) either highroll the draw when doing the Eist as last say or not do it as last say and create a tall target yourself (and SK doesn't have many other tall targets so if you're not playing Jutta as last say you're often just giving value to oppo's tall removal). That's quite a lot of things need to go your way to get that 39 points. In reality it rarely happens.

Third, crimes eats SK for breakfast. So does Arachas unless you tech in Hemdall and/or Gerd. Hemdall is expensive af and Gerd is just a bad card in every other matchup. So two most played lists give Eist super bad matchups. However, when crimes get nerfed and people start teching for Arachas more, this SK Eist will need balancing for sure.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Messyr]

I agree that the card is a bit overtuned but it's not as broken as people (including me) thought at first.

First, you need to slot the 8p Jutta to get full Eist value. That's 4 provisions on top of a 4p mulligan fodder you could have in Jutta's place, making the whole Eist play an equivalent of a 15p card (same as NG Formation is not really a 16p leader as it's full value needs the 8p Affan which makes it a 12p leader in fact - one of the worst leaders currently). So Eist and Jutta alone is like a 17 for 15 play.

Second, to get the full value of 39 you also need to 1) spend the leader, 2) find a tall target, 3) get Bloodthirst2 and 4) either highroll the draw when doing the Eist as last say or not do it as last say and create a tall target yourself (and SK doesn't have many other tall targets so if you're not playing Jutta as last say you're often just giving value to oppo's tall removal). That's quite a lot of things need to go your way to get that 39 points. In reality it rarely happens.

Third, crimes eats SK for breakfast. So does Arachas unless you tech in Hemdall and/or Gerd. Hemdall is expensive af and Gerd is just a bad card in every other matchup. So two most played lists give Eist super bad matchups. However, when crimes get nerfed and people start teching for Arachas more, this SK Eist will need balancing for sure.

That's my 2 cents.

This sums it up rather well. I have similar feelings after playing with,- and against Eist for a few dozen matches this month.
The combo IS overtuned, the point cap on it is unacceptably high, but fact is, currently 90% or the meta just counters it without even teching against it directly.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

It doesn't change the fact, that having the potential to generate that much points in just one turn is not normal.
Sure you will not always get full 39 points, but does it really matter whether you get full value or say 25-30 in one turn? It's still way too much. The only card that I can think of, which in the turn when you lay it down and use leader ability, is able to generate that much points is Masquerade Ball. But then you would need to run Duble Cross ability and face NG and hope to copy Joachim out of your opponent's hand and then pull an aristocrat from your own deck. That's even more complex task, than making full 39p value off Eist+BoG. And the ball is freaking 15p provision!

 

[Messyr]

It doesn't change the fact, that having the potential to generate that much points in just one turn is not normal.

No, it is not, I believe we can agree on that one anytime.