So I leveled to 50 before going to Victor

[1cmf]

Honestly I didn't feel like armor mattered in the game. Weapon damage and mod slots. After that, wear what ever the hell you please.

 

[Aasimar-X]

i didnt even use any mods on 1st playthrou
iam a horder who thinks...
ahh maybe this comes in handy later

i mean... armor dose have some effect, as long as the enemy isnt using AP ammo.. but i also think its minmal

 

[1cmf]

My most important mod to input is carrying capacity

 

[Aasimar-X]

for me its running speed^^

 

[Crudeo]

At level 4 using a Unity pistol with dmg of 20-24 on weapon I did a headshot of 45 on a target taking off...5%?? of the health bar.

At level 50 using a Unity pistol with dmg of 86-105 on a weapon I did a headshot of 346 to the same target taking off maybe 2% of the targets health bar.

If there wasn't level scaling, woudln't the 346 dmg on that target do more to the same target than the 45 dmg did?

One of the posts above asked why did I do this? I like to experiment and test games for fun. Boundary breaking, understanding mechanics and synergies, finding bugs or unknown ways to do things.

I had a little goal in my head to do this without cheats, so I did it and happy with myself. It ultimately isn't for gameplay purposes at all, and mostly just to do it for my own experiment.

I think information is interesting and learning is good even if this was in something pointless.

That's why I don't like scaling enemies in open world rpg games.
I want to feel some progression in my play. I want to level up and put work into my character, go back to a tough enemy from the past and own him.

But if every half naked goon is as tough or even more resilient than saka ninja's...it's just immersion and game breaking for me.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

for me its running speed^^

I use jump skipping to move really fast <3

 

[Aasimar-X]

I use jump skipping to move really fast <3

i play with Mouse+Keyboard...
didnt work for me 50% of the time... so running speed is the way to go^^

 

[Simpson3000]

Because without the upgrade slots you can get one-shotted in certain instances, what would force you to alter your entire play style just to look cool.

That's just plain stupid.

If you power level at the start most items also becomes trivial.

 

[Aasimar-X]

i think its a matter of playstyle...
also peoples expectations

i kinda like the 1-4 bullets and dead mechanic...
i did hate those bullet sponges you have in Ubisofts The Devision.... i realy did hate it

p.s.
i think CDPR still needs to do a lot of balance stuff... hacking is way to powerfull...
remove the mass effect from it and it wouldnt be that powerfull
legendary shortcircuit is a doubleedged sword...
someone who dosnt have any fighting skills needs it to deal damage at all with weapons...
for the rest its OP

i like the freedomw of the skill system...
but with a base class systems we wouldnt be able to do minmax chars...

 

[Crudeo]

i play with Mouse+Keyboard...
didnt work for me 50% of the time... so running speed is the way to go^^

It need some practice.

I mastered it to get access to Vs ending apartment.

Just don't loot it, if you want to play the ending.

 

[1cmf]

I think levels are an archaic system of a false sense of progression honestly.
The worst level scaling I have seen was in Oblivion, a rat 1 was always a threat no matter how high I leveled.

I think targets should maintain a level of difficulty and skills/gear/knowledge adapt how the fight is done over time. Increase health pools or damage done per level will either make half of the game (or more) meaningless as you level and you just ignore it, or it makes all of the game "immersion breaking" if they scale with you.

A rat should be as hard as a rat is to fight, nothing more. Even at level 1 they shouldn't be a difficult chore to fight. The difference is, at level 1 I might have a stick and it takes a few more wacks to kill it. At level 50 I should have a nice shiny sharp sword, so now I can lop it's head off.

Now a hoard of rats would be a threat and even if they don't do a lot of damage, there are too many to fight without getting scratched or bit, which could have a disease and debuff/dmg over time. That makes the encounter always interesting and if you get lazy you might get nipped by the single rat, but they do get easier over time as you learn how the rat fights and how to avoid taking damage or reducing the time fought.

So for this scenario in Cyberpunk. A bunch of scavs are a threat regardless. They are under equipped and not organized, but if they get the jump on you they can still kill you. As I get more gear and skills, I have more ways to fight them and maybe at level 1 I can fight a single scav and make it out ok, but 3 scavs are hard to deal with. At level 50 I now have better quickhacks and cybernetics, maybe the scavs are weak to fire and now I have fire based weapons to keep them CCed longer and easier to fight a crowd.

They still can kill me, but I have more tools at my belt to deal with them. You can accomplish this with fight mechanics and strategy. Levels are an illusion that are unnecessary.

If anything, putting some of the skills and quickhacks behind missions instead of just getting exp to earn them would make the world and missions more meaningful as you have to do a job to learn a special quick hack that lets you blind targets or learn how to make people cyber psychos at the end of the quest chain.

 

[Aasimar-X]

@1cmf
true...
but also
some stuff is only available because we minmax
if you dont take crafting...
most of the stuff you find you cant upgrade... or change it up to legendary
and you are always broke
if you dont take at last 12 INT and do the hacking mumbojumbo...
you dont ever get legenday programms

 

[1cmf]

So as I am playing, this game actually feels "very hard" for once, as these targets take a TON of damage to kill and until I get some good gear it will be a grind as people mentioned about turrets taking way too much dmg to down.

Started doing the story line and fighting the Malestrom gang for the flathead is pretty rough.

I may have made this game a pain in the ass until I get past these areas that were intended to be "low level".

On the other hand, it is nice that everything that drops is scaling to level 50, so now I don't need to upgrade these special drops or legendary items from level 4 up to 50 as they already are level appropriate.

 

[TouPoutsou]

At level 4 using a Unity pistol with dmg of 20-24 on weapon I did a headshot of 45 on a target taking off...5%?? of the health bar.

At level 50 using a Unity pistol with dmg of 86-105 on a weapon I did a headshot of 346 to the same target taking off maybe 2% of the targets health bar.

If there wasn't level scaling, woudln't the 346 dmg on that target do more to the same target than the 45 dmg did?

One of the posts above asked why did I do this? I like to experiment and test games for fun. Boundary breaking, understanding mechanics and synergies, finding bugs or unknown ways to do things.

I had a little goal in my head to do this without cheats, so I did it and happy with myself. It ultimately isn't for gameplay purposes at all, and mostly just to do it for my own experiment.

I think information is interesting and learning is good even if this was in something pointless.

Ok, this confirms that there is SOME kind of scaling. Maybe not their actual level, but their gear, as gear is confirmed to scale with level. Armor makes a HUGE difference on the damage received by bullets. But melee weapons tend to ignore armor. Maybe you should do the same experiment with a melee weapon to see if their actual HP increases or not.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

For a little experiment, as soon as I got my car from Jackie I took him for a ride to see if he would do any missions or fighting with me (he did not get out of the car), then I decided to power level to 50 before doing any of the story. This is on very hard.

What I noticed is the level system is a curve, where the first 1-20ish levels progressively get longer, then cap out at around 25, then it takes less to level as you start getting more exp from enemies around 30. Going between groups of 3 by cars I would throw 2 grenades and insta kill, run around a corner and do the same to the other set for about 13-15 seconds between kills. At the longest it took 80 rotations, about 19 minutes, but then around 30 it was getting shorter and shorter and in the 40s it was only about 40 rotations of the kills for about 9 minutes.

I also didn't put any points into my attributes or any cybernetics. Now that I am 50 and started doing the story, the enemies are SUPER hard to fight and 1 shot me. Every enemy scales with you even if they go from yellow, to green, to grey "difficulty". Guns and gear scale with you. What makes you overpowered at the later game are the perks and damage multipliers.

No real information in this post, just found it interesting on the leveling curve and the way enemies scale. Seen a few posts complaining the game needs level scaling, and well...it exists?

Are the enemies you are killing now are only respawning enemies? Pretty sure the original versions levels are fixed. perhaps respawning ones spawn in your level range. Regardless, probably would need more testing to fully understand either way.


oh yeah and main story enemies supposedly always scale

 

[GrimReaper801]

Are the enemies you are killing now are only respawning enemies? Pretty sure the original versions levels are fixed. perhaps respawning ones spawn in your level range. Regardless, probably would need more testing to fully understand either way.

This seems to be it.

I just tried it out. The star event that randomly generates gang members generated level/gear scaled enemies for me. Whereas a static gang that's probably been there since the beginning was absurdly easy.

Explains why I had not noticed it before, I don't really bother with those.

 

[azraelsgame]

For a little experiment, as soon as I got my car from Jackie I took him for a ride to see if he would do any missions or fighting with me (he did not get out of the car), then I decided to power level to 50 before doing any of the story. This is on very hard.

No real information in this post, just found it interesting on the leveling curve and the way enemies scale.

congrats and impressive my choom.

 

[1cmf]

I was killing respawning enemies in front of the giant rave tower and down the alley where the maelstrom cyber psycho mission was.

Ok, this confirms that there is SOME kind of scaling. Maybe not their actual level, but their gear, as gear is confirmed to scale with level. Armor makes a HUGE difference on the damage received by bullets. But melee weapons tend to ignore armor. Maybe you should do the same experiment with a melee weapon to see if their actual HP increases or not.

went back to test melee as requested. Still no points into my attributes but I did buy cybernetics from vic since I started to progress story. I did "not" have gorilla arms yet though, as it required street cred, so this kept the melee dmg at default values as best as I can replicate.

Level 4 crowbar: 83 wpn dmg / 69 melee dmg done / 20%? of health bar? decent chunk at least
Level 50 crowbar: 414 wpn dmg / 1013 melee dmg done / 20%? of health bar again?

Post automatically merged: Jan 19, 2021

Are the enemies you are killing now are only respawning enemies? Pretty sure the original versions levels are fixed. perhaps respawning ones spawn in your level range. Regardless, probably would need more testing to fully understand either way.


oh yeah and main story enemies supposedly always scale

These are respawning enemies but static in the world as they are not police events (blue star badges that randomly pop up)
Map clear events such as side story or reported crimes in progress seem to be set in scaling and were "grey" or low threat difficulty at 50. (minus the discussed "tethered scaling")

Story enemies also are showing up grey/low threat, yet they are doing more/taking less dmg so I am never OP and able to just blow right through them.

Blue star random event badges also are showing up grey/low threat.

Again even though they are "low level" they still scale and are capable of being a threat and surviving multiple hits with higher level gear, but as mentioned above, the districts are designated in difficulty, so Watson is supposed to be the easiest place and everything appears to show up as grey/low threat.

I'll go to another district and see how they pair up or if everything is still grey/low threat. (oh I lied, I gotta finish the heist first...hah, ok I'll report back later)

 

[Bloodartist]

I can't say I've seen evidence of enemies scaling. Grey enemies die extremely easily from any of my higher level gear even when using weapons I don't have any perks for.

Me neither, apart from the "beat on the brat" boxing "missions" which seem bugged in various ways. Apart from those, Id say this game feels too easy.

 

[darksharke]

Interesting. Thanks to a mod, I escaped the Watson lockdown before 'The Heist' by flying across the regions, landing then jacking cars. So far I have found in Rancho Coronado, for example, that random enemies are much tougher than back in Watson, harder to kill, but help you improve your combat tactics instead of just blasting away. I am currently only level 10, the weapon drops so far are stuff that needs level 20 upwards so I just stash them where needed. I can use the Fast Travel points from any area now and return to V's apartment then go back even though the game would probably still stop me driving out of Watson. I save in the car so they persist when relog in. ( I have not yet tried or driven back in) so I've got access to the whole map now. It's much more enjoyable and also challenging to face better opposition

 

[Bassdeff]

Interesting experiment, I didn't know there was enough enemies on the map before Victor to do that. Something to try on my next playthrough. Right now, I'm having fun playing my cybermonk (no weapons, no mods other than optics and cyberdeck, no fatalities, and no mass quick hack skills).