So What Ya Expect from That PATCH 1.2 coming this month?

[ya1]

Whats with the anti Playstation attitude?

People are concerned that instead of working on finishing the game for the good of all, they are playing favorites and wasting time trying to make it run on inadequate hardware - just because the whole thing didn't fly with the law and Sony. Good ol' tribalism. However, it can't be denied that this is still a game with fake stats and perks, no AI and all kinds of unfinished crap on all platforms...

these giant, sprawling, branching, games with a whole range of different activities and robust, detailed visuals and amazing amounts of replayability

...and the breathtaking police chases, the kick-ass vehicle customization and the next-gen open world experience with complex NPC daily routines?

It is ultra-super-mega-hella-rare to find a game on this scale that does not have pretty significant issues

True. But it's even rarer - at least since Tetris and Pac-Man - to find a game where models can only go forward and back but not left or right. Like the traffic in Cyberpunk 2077.

And just because one person sees an issue does not mean that it's universal

The gun in Jackie's head, the non-lootable drones, the Hwangbo/DumDum 4ever stalking mode, the Panam's brainview, the T-biking, the car showers, etc. These were pretty universal. To the point that some of them became candidates for Best Memes 2020.

No studio is or ever will be liable to change design aspects of their creative work because a certain demographic thinks it should be more like Game A or Game B instead.

Sure. Let's take Evasion for example. In Game A, it says it's a passive chance to avoid enemy attacks, and it does just that. In Game CP, it says it's a passive chance to avoid enemy attacks, and it does nothing. Considering this particular design aspect of creativity, I find it somewhat difficult to blame the demographics...

I do respect your opinion and I sincerely apologize for my sarcasm but this seems like the only sane response to any and all attempts at defending the general mess of Cyberpunk 2077...

I outright disagree about anything people would call a "lie". There were no lies.

I won't try an link all the YouTube videos and hundreds of Reddit posts. Literal spreadsheets listing dozens upon dozens of all the lies from CDPR and comparing to the sad reality of CP77. Instead, allow me to illustrate my own understanding of the word "lie."

So, you're given a gun and made shoot at the pursuers in a car chase. Such things have been a norm in competitive titles for years now. So it's not hard to convince people about the interactive character of the whole thing. However, it's a scripted sequence through and through. The game does not even count the number of bullets that hit the target to maybe present an alternative outcome of a failure. The enemy vehicle will always explode at the same pre-scripted moment regardless of player input. This complete illusion of interactivity, this rather blatant attempt at cheating your way into scoring a "we have a feature" point - this is imo a lie. And CP77 is built on a foundation of it.

 

[Cybercom_78]

So, you're given a gun and made shoot at the pursuers in a car chase. Such things have been a norm in competitive titles for years now. So it's not hard to convince people about the interactive character of the whole thing. However, it's a scripted sequence through and through. The game does not even count the number of bullets that hit the target to maybe present an alternative outcome of a failure. The enemy vehicle will always explode at the same pre-scripted moment regardless of player input. This complete illusion of interactivity, this rather blatant attempt at cheating your way into scoring a "we have a feature" point - this is imo a lie. And CP77 is built on a foundation of it.

I totally agree

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

People are concerned that instead of working on finishing the game for the good of all, they are playing favorites and wasting time trying to make it run on inadequate hardware - just because the whole thing didn't fly with the law and Sony. Good ol' tribalism. However, it can't be denied that this is still a game with fake stats and perks, no AI and all kinds of unfinished crap on all platforms...



...and the breathtaking police chases, the kick-ass vehicle customization and the next-gen open world experience with complex NPC daily routines?



True. But it's even rarer - at least since Tetris and Pac-Man - to find a game where models can only go forward and back but not left or right. Like the traffic in Cyberpunk 2077.



The gun in Jackie's head, the non-lootable drones, the Hwangbo/DumDum 4ever stalking mode, the Panam's brainview, the T-biking, the car showers, etc. These were pretty universal. To the point that some of them became candidates for Best Memes 2020.



Sure. Let's take Evasion for example. In Game A, it says it's a passive chance to avoid enemy attacks, and it does just that. In Game CP, it says it's a passive chance to avoid enemy attacks, and it does nothing. Considering this particular design aspect of creativity, I find it somewhat difficult to blame the demographics...

I do respect your opinion and I sincerely apologize for my sarcasm but this seems like the only sane response to any and all attempts at defending the general mess of Cyberpunk 2077...



I won't try an link all the YouTube videos and hundreds of Reddit posts. Literal spreadsheets listing dozens upon dozens of all the lies from CDPR and comparing to the sad reality of CP77. Instead, allow me to illustrate my own understanding of the word "lie."

So, you're given a gun and made shoot at the pursuers in a car chase. Such things have been a norm in competitive titles for years now. So it's not hard to convince people about the interactive character of the whole thing. However, it's a scripted sequence through and through. The game does not even count the number of bullets that hit the target to maybe present an alternative outcome of a failure. The enemy vehicle will always explode at the same pre-scripted moment regardless of player input. This complete illusion of interactivity, this rather blatant attempt at cheating your way into scoring a "we have a feature" point - this is imo a lie. And CP77 is built on a foundation of it.

actually, this is not true of all car chase scenes. Also, even the ones you can't fail, you can usually destroy the enemies early. You can also get killed in that first car scene. The delamain heist one can be failed, and ends as soon as you kill everything. I don't know if the arasaka one matters at all, because I suck at kenshin pistol. Definitely the last guy on the hood is scripted.

but that overall was a cut feature, it was supposed to be generated randomly depending who hates you. However that was in the demo that was subject to change.

 

[hulkman2456]

So, you're given a gun and made shoot at the pursuers in a car chase. Such things have been a norm in competitive titles for years now. So it's not hard to convince people about the interactive character of the whole thing. However, it's a scripted sequence through and through. The game does not even count the number of bullets that hit the target to maybe present an alternative outcome of a failure. The enemy vehicle will always explode at the same pre-scripted moment regardless of player input. This complete illusion of interactivity, this rather blatant attempt at cheating your way into scoring a "we have a feature" point - this is imo a lie. And CP77 is built on a foundation of it.

This car chase scene is one example where the game lacks cutscenes, hurt it. Because since this is a full scripted event. This works fine for a cutscene. And I wouldn't be surprise if someone came out and said, it was a cutscene at some point.

Also, even the ones you can't fail, you can usually destroy the enemies early.

Really. Because I macroed my gun once. And the van has to crash into the wall at the same spot. You can't kill anyone early. If you had control over the chase. Blowing the tires would be allowed. The only section of that chase, that should be scripted. Is it swerving between lanes. Once that part is complete. Should be taken over by AI. And than be finished at any point. Remove the the van crashing into the wall. Just have the car blow up.

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

I won't try an link all the YouTube videos and hundreds of Reddit posts. Literal spreadsheets listing dozens upon dozens of all the lies from CDPR and comparing to the sad reality of CP77. Instead, allow me to illustrate my own understanding of the word "lie."

I think what CDPR and @SigilFey are failing to understand, is that it really doesn't matter if there were intentional lies told. Maybe they had the best intentions, and in the minds of the people making the statements, everything they said was straight up, 100% truth. That doesn't matter.

Why doesn't the reality/truth matter? Because the customer perceives that he/she was lied to. That is what matters. And we're not talking about a small number of disgruntled buyers, we're talking about a huge percentage of the player base that spent money on the product and feels lied to.

CDPR is a business, and like any business it relies on customer behavior to survive. What drives customer behavior is not truth, it's customer perception. A car can be the most reliable car on the market, but if the perception among buyers is that the car is unreliable, sales will suffer for it.

If they want to solve this problem, CDPR has to "flip the script" and change this perception. How do they do that? They have to address the concerns of the customers who feel betrayed, even if CDPR those feelings are unwarranted. Instead of saying "there were no lies and we we love the game we released", somebody at the company needs to take real responsibility for the perception that was created (and not just the bugs), and say something like:

"We at CDPR acknowledge that some players believe that the game features are not complete or the equivalent of the feature set that was discussed by CDPR prior to release. While there was no attempt on the part of CDPR to deceive or otherwise mislead customers, we want our customers to be happy with our product and therefore have committed the company to ongoing refinement of the product. As a result we will continue to add and enhance features to the game as we move forward. Please consider CP2077 in it's current state a 'work in progress' that we hope to build on to make it the most dynamic, interesting, and enjoyable experience that we can create."

That statement and some follow-through on it is all it would take to placate customers. That statement doesn't say "yeah we lied", it just acknowledges that there has been a miscommunication and disconnect in expectations. It might not have been CDPR's fault. But they are using it as an opportunity to satisfy customers instead of ignoring that the perception problem exists and stating everything is fine with the game feature set, when customers clearly don't agree.

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2021

actually, this is not true of all car chase scenes. Also, even the ones you can't fail, you can usually destroy the enemies early.

By "all" you mean "both"? AFAIK there are exactly two car chases in the game. One with the Scavs is 100% scripted, and the other with the border corpos is also scripted. Sure you can shoot up some of the enemies, and kill a few Scavs in the van early or the corpos in the SUVs. But the chase *always* ends at the exact same point and in the exact same way. As mentioned, there is the illusion of players having some affect on the outcome, but in the end it's just that...illusion.

 

[CS554]

Why doesn't the reality/truth matter? Because the customer perceives that he/she was lied to. That is what matters. And we're not talking about a small number of disgruntled buyers, we're talking about a huge percentage of the player base that spent money on the product and feels lied to.

I'm not sure about that huge percentage. Far more players completed Cyberpunk 2077 than the Outer Worlds and the Wasteland 3 according to Xbox achievement stats.

Neither customer protection or production can work on system where evaluation is based on subjective feelings.

CDPR is a business, and like any business it relies on customer behavior to survive. What drives customer behavior is not truth, it's customer perception. A car can be the most reliable car on the market, but if the perception among buyers is that the car is unreliable, sales will suffer for it.

There is real example of this from couple of decades ago. One car manufacturer invested heavily to brand certain model line as family friendly and safe. In crash tests it was the only one that practically killed its passengers and manufacturer knew.

For the sake of everyone, I hope nobody ever, anywhere implements merit system for products, like you suggest.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I think what CDPR and @SigilFey are failing to understand, is that it really doesn't matter if there were intentional lies told. Maybe they had the best intentions, and in the minds of the people making the statements, everything they said was straight up, 100% truth. That doesn't matter.

Why doesn't the reality/truth matter? Because the customer perceives that he/she was lied to. That is what matters. And we're not talking about a small number of disgruntled buyers, we're talking about a huge percentage of the player base that spent money on the product and feels lied to.

CDPR is a business, and like any business it relies on customer behavior to survive. What drives customer behavior is not truth, it's customer perception. A car can be the most reliable car on the market, but if the perception among buyers is that the car is unreliable, sales will suffer for it.

If they want to solve this problem, CDPR has to "flip the script" and change this perception. How do they do that? They have to address the concerns of the customers who feel betrayed, even if CDPR those feelings are unwarranted. Instead of saying "there were no lies and we we love the game we released", somebody at the company needs to take real responsibility for the perception that was created (and not just the bugs), and say something like:

"We at CDPR acknowledge that some players believe that the game features are not complete or the equivalent of the feature set that was discussed by CDPR prior to release. While there was no attempt on the part of CDPR to deceive or otherwise mislead customers, we want our customers to be happy with our product and therefore have committed the company to ongoing refinement of the product. As a result we will continue to add and enhance features to the game as we move forward. Please consider CP2077 in it's current state a 'work in progress' that we hope to build on to make it the most dynamic, interesting, and enjoyable experience that we can create."

That statement and some follow-through on it is all it would take to placate customers. That statement doesn't say "yeah we lied", it just acknowledges that there has been a miscommunication and disconnect in expectations. It might not have been CDPR's fault. But they are using it as an opportunity to satisfy customers instead of ignoring that the perception problem exists and stating everything is fine with the game feature set, when customers clearly don't agree.

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2021

By "all" you mean "both"? AFAIK there are exactly two car chases in the game. One with the Scavs is 100% scripted, and the other with the border corpos is also scripted. Sure you can shoot up some of the enemies, and kill a few Scavs in the van early or the corpos in the SUVs. But the chase *always* ends at the exact same point and in the exact same way. As mentioned, there is the illusion of players having some affect on the outcome, but in the end it's just that...illusion.

you got the delamain heist chase, you got pan am chase when going to overload emp, you got the pan am chase when you get Saul, you got go the takamura chase when your dying.

the delamain one ends if you don't kill the drones before reaching a certain overpass, and you get exploded. It ends as soon as you kill all three drones.

the early ones, I'm not surprised are scripted, they are mostly just a cutscene, like the takamura one. You will eventually win, unless they kill you with bullets, which at least in the scavs one they can do.

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

you got the delamain heist chase, you got pan am chase when going to overload emp, you got the pan am chase when you get Saul, you got go the takamura chase when your dying.

the delamain one ends if you don't kill the drones before reaching a certain overpass, and you get exploded. It ends as soon as you kill all three drones.

the early ones, I'm not surprised are scripted, they are mostly just a cutscene, like the takamura one. You will eventually win, unless they kill you with bullets, which at least in the scavs one they can do.

Drone rail shooting sequences are not car chases. None of the others you mentioned have more than one outcome, unless you get shot too much and die.

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2021

I'm not sure about that huge percentage. Far more players completed Cyberpunk 2077 than the Outer Worlds and the Wasteland 3 according to Xbox achievement stats.

Neither customer protection or production can work on system where evaluation is based on subjective feelings.


There is real example of this from couple of decades ago. One car manufacturer invested heavily to brand certain model line as family friendly and safe. In crash tests it was the only one that practically killed its passengers and manufacturer knew.

For the sake of everyone, I hope nobody ever, anywhere implements merit system for products, like you suggest.

We are not talking about completion rates, or a "merit system". What I'm saying is that CDPR has an enormous PR problem right now, centered on players feeling betrayed and mislead. They are essentially ignoring it at best, and telling players they are wrong to feel that way at worst. If you don't see that I can't really help you understand.

Satisfy the customer. That's it. Business 101.

 

[CS554]

Satisfy the customer. That's it. Business 101.

Here is a thing, most customers didn't refund. Not every feature you that is important to you, is actually important to all of us.

 

[reaper1]

Here is a thing, most customers didn't refund. Not every feature you that is important to you, is actually important to all of us.

Some of the customers, like myself, wanted to enjoy the game so didn't get a refund based on the promises made to rectify the situation and I've yet to see much evidence of that happening. It is not good that money was taken based on a false belief that was hyped up with regards to the quality of the product in the first place.

 

[CS554]

Some of the customers, like myself, wanted to enjoy the game so didn't get a refund based on the promises made to rectify the situation and I've yet to see much evidence of that happening. It is not good that money was taken based on a false belief that was hyped up with regards to the quality of the product in the first place.

We got hotfixes, we got 1.1 patch and in time we will get 1.2 patch. For content DLC there's a roadmap.

 

[Warthog91]

V should be able to get a Mr Studd implant and put it to good use on all the talent just walking around. Make 10k lays an achievement.

Brightened my day!

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

Here is a thing, most customers didn't refund. Not every feature you that is important to you, is actually important to all of us.

Obviously we're not talking about every customer, or even individual customers. I didn't mention any particular, individual feature. But almost all players agree that there are game features that were promoted that are missing, or that some features appear incomplete or placeholders, as the mod on this very forum has agreed.

You don't have to get a refund to agree the game has serious issues. Are people really going to argue that other than bugs this game is just fine, and CDPR faces no PR issues if they just fix the bugs??

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2021

We got hotfixes, we got 1.1 patch and in time we will get 1.2 patch. For content DLC there's a roadmap.

None of that addresses missing or incomplete features, and no mention has yet been made by CDPR of them in any communication. Do you think that this game is feature complete, and nothing other than bug fixes and additional content is needed?

If so, I think you're in a very small minority of players.

 

[CS554]

Obviously we're not talking about every customer, or even individual customers. I didn't mention any particular, individual feature. But almost all players agree that there are game features that were promoted that are missing, or that some features appear incomplete or placeholders, as the mod on this very forum has agreed.

We have numerous threads actually debunking a lot of cut content speculation. Then it goes back to importance of features. Cop AI isn't big feature for me, I never got that involved them with to begin with. Broken perks didn't kept me from enjoying the game or completing it. In fact, I didn't needed to wait 3 weeks for patch to be able to play game like what happened with Wasteland 3.

There are legit issues like phone call scripts not triggering like intended, but this whole circling fort and back around hype and subjective expectations appears to me more and more like some sort of perpetual motion machine for whatever reason.

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2021

Do you think that this game is feature complete, and nothing other than bug fixes and additional content is needed?

For most parts yes. I don't see them chancing the story. Police AI, driving in general, perks will get fixed, but I don't see any of those changing game essentially from what it is.

 

[reaper1]

Then it goes back to importance of features. Cop AI isn't big feature for me, I never got that involved them with to begin with.

While some things are a matter of taste, of course, I personally think it's a stretch to imply that the cop system as it is either functions as a gamer would expect from a AAA title or could even be seen as being complete, but since CDPR have yet to confirm what exactly they consider to be functioning in a fashion they they find satisfactory and what is considered unfinished and will get some work, it's hard to say.

 

[DKDArtagnan]

Very, very little.

 

[ya1]

It's not about which car chase is interactive to what extent. It's about that the game advertised as next gen on multiple levels (including AI) does not even have AI capable of driving. And it's really not a feat of programming anymore. The game "Driver" from 1999 on PS1 had police chases in an open world environment. So they try to conceal this. Scripted sequences, continuous respawns, etc. But the question is, where is the AI? What happened? They had money for Keanu, for all those songs, where is the by definition most important part of any game - the other player, the opponent - the AI?

The answer is simple. You can't lie you got Keanu and then show not-Keanu. Can't say you hired this or that artist and then show work of someone else. But AI? Why not? By all means, you can legally say you got "revolutionary next gen open world experience with this and that and the other" and then bring on cars that unironically can't drive around an inch of an obstacle. This is the rules of marketing, the anatomy of lies. Even though from the perspective of true gaming experience, AI is one of the most important aspects of a video game, from the point of view of marketing, it just isn't.

Cop AI isn't big feature for me, I never got that involved them with to begin with. Broken perks didn't kept me from enjoying the game or completing it.

For me though fake character development elements is the lowest move in the book. It's the thing you just don't do. Consciously tricking the player into believing in game mechanics that do not exist in order to create an illusion of depth? Fake stats that do nothing, empty numbers the player is tricked into grinding and thinking they have an effect on their characters - you might expect that from one of those trash-tier mobile arpg spinoffs with pixelated graphics. Not the long awaited AAA title from the most awarded game dev studio. Just... disgusting.

I also do not care about the cops. But the cops are just a symptom of the greater problem. The game has no real AI. And I do care about the shooter gameplay and the enemy AI.

For most parts yes. I don't see them chancing the story. Police AI, driving in general, perks will get fixed, but I don't see any of those changing game essentially from what it is.

They should redesign the whole game mechanics. Unlimited slow mo that costs no resources and completely prevents the enemies from interacting with you? Quickhacks clearing whole levels with one press of a button? Sorry but these can never be elements of a healthy game. Around lvl 20, enemies are no longer relevant. You have to gimp your char by purposefully avoiding core game mechanics in order for CP not to turn into a "solitaire with "draw any card" ability on 5 second cooldown." But even when you do that, go running naked with a white entry level gun and no cybers, you basically are forced to abuse the limited AI instead of the broken mechanics.

Not to mention the obvious trash like items with crit chance beyond 100%. No option for enemies to scale up to you. This game - obviously consisting of hard work from some of the most talented people in the industry - seriously deserves so much better than such trash.

 

[CS554]

They should redesign the whole game mechanics.

I don't believe that is in the scope of patch.

 

[space_throwaway]

Nothing because CDPR had no intention of improving this game. They are "proud" of the state it's in, that tells your everything.

They probably won't even fix the typos, missing prefabs, missing walls, bugged perks with the next patch. Because they don't care.

 

[the_ktt]

There are so much rants and empty answers just attacking people at CDPR on zero basis, how come moderators allow that?

Anyways, like said, i think they will release it in February just to keep promises like they always try their best to fullfil. However, the patch might be smaller then initially planned due to the hacking, so it might be so that the parts that we would get in February patch will come later on unfortunately.