Some brainstorming and ideas on how wanted system can be improved.

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So I was thinking about fixing the wanted system overall and came with some ideas in terms of mechanics and gameplay:

1. Non-lethal and lethal: It would be more Immersive to make NCPD (1-3 Stars) non-lethal and deal with you using blunt weapons and teasers just like the trauma team. On the other hand making MaxTac units lethal and try to kill you instead.

2.Outcomes: If you go down by NCPD, you will get busted and pay a small fine of street cred and eddies maybe while if you go down by MaxTac you get flatliners or alternatively got wasted and respawn in front of a ripper doc with a greater cred and eddie fine maybe.

3. Solutions for police not able to chase with cars: Just like how elevators get disabled during wanted event, there can be roadblocks on streets that can be activated that would force you to escape on foot therefore it will be more doable to implement an on the feet chase.

What you guys think about it?
 
So I was thinking about fixing the wanted system overall and came with some ideas in terms of mechanics and gameplay:

1. Non-lethal and lethal: It would be more Immersive to make NCPD (1-3 Stars) non-lethal and deal with you using blunt weapons and teasers just like the trauma team. On the other hand making MaxTac units lethal and try to kill you instead.

2.Outcomes: If you go down by NCPD, you will get busted and pay a small fine of street cred and eddies maybe while if you go down by MaxTac you get flatliners or alternatively got wasted and respawn in front of a ripper doc with a greater cred and eddie fine maybe.

3. Solutions for police not able to chase with cars: Just like how elevators get disabled during wanted event, there can be roadblocks on streets that can be activated that would force you to escape on foot therefore it will be more doable to implement an on the feet chase.

What you guys think about it?
I think you have taken upon you a huge task here :D

The whole system is a difficult one to solve I think, not only from a technical point of view, which is obviously important. But to me such system need to include 4 things:

1. Technical
2. Realism / immersion
3. Lore
4. Story

So there are two types of crimes in the city at the moment as far as I know?
- Stealing a car
- Murder (Civilian, policemen)

Depending on which it is the police should react differently.

How police AI could work
The technical part of thing is how Night city works, there are lots of narrow streets, even those you would call the big ones doesn't really allow for a lot of room for cars to navigate. So having police cars chasing you down the street is probably not going to work very well. So for them to use the Police cars to make roadblocks on certain roads around you, could work. And obviously these should only be possible to drive through if you are using a heavy car, like a truck, pickup truck, some of the armoured Nomad cars (Can't remember their name). Also it would make sense for them to use nails or spike traps to explode the wheels.

The chasing of the player, should primarily be done by flying drones, which can pass over the traffic. Policemen could be dropped by those dropships in the area once the player is on foot and so they can start searching the area for you.

None of that seems to be impossible in a game like this as I see it.

If the player is seen stealing a car, the police should instantly draw their weapons, aim them at the player and yell for them to get out of the car. The player will then have the option to get out of car and surrender or simply drive off.

If the player surrender to them on the spot, they will be able to try to bribe them here to avoid going to jail. If they ain't able to pay a bribe they will be handled as of the section below (Player have surrendered)

If they choose to run off, then the above will be triggered, (roadblock and drones called in) and things will be handled like anything else, as in the section below "Capturing the player".

Capturing the player
Another thing they would have to handle is, how the police forces the player to stop, Which could be done by the policemen once they have spotted the player, will yell for them to not move. At which point the player will have a few seconds, maybe indicated by a timer on the screen counting down, which gives them the opportunity to surrender, which again is simply done by not moving, the player can turn around though, if they wish. If the player decide to keep moving, the police will use non lethal force trying to stop you. If you as player starts to shoot at them, quick hack etc. they will return fire trying to kill you, and there will be no more options for surrendering (The police shouldn't take crap from anyone :)).
The longer the fight goes on and the more cops, civilians the player kills or damage in general the player does, like blowing up cars, throwing grenades etc. will increase the wanted meter and the more hardcore cops are called in, and at this point your only option is to get rid of the wanted status.

Player have surrendered
Once the player have been arrested, the police could move close to you and in some cases either knock you down and put you in handcuffs or simply put the handcuffs on you. At this point a flying police car is called in, that will land near you and a scene showing you being led into it and flown to the police station and thrown in a jail cell will play out, no cutscene, you as player will experience all this and obviously have no control during this time until you are in the jail cell.

This next part is the rough one, because of the three things above, realism, lore and story.

One would assume that a lot of the crimes player's are doing involve them murdering civilians. So how exactly does one get out of jail for that?

So both realism and story will have to be bend slightly for a system like this to work.
In regards to the story, V is about to die so spending a lot of time in jail wouldn't really work. Also assuming V having killed X amount of civilians, is simply let out again after paying X amount of money or a few days is fairly lame as well, but is probably where one would have to bend the "realism" the most, but think it would be acceptable and therefore we have to allow for this from now on :)

After a bit of time in the jail (couple of minutes), the player is told to report to an officer, which is like the guy in the Nomad lifepath at the border checkpoint sitting behind the fence thing at the entrance and it is here that the player will decide how to handle the punishment.

Jail time and punishment
The system should keep track of two things:

1. Destruction value
2. Civilians killed

Destruction value, is basically everything that the player is destroying during the police chase. So ramming into cop cars, ruining environment, hitting random cars, if they stole a car, the damage to it. etc. All these are added together and will make up the destruction value, which is basically what the player will be fined to pay. Players should be forced to pay if they have the money. But if they can't the value is then converted to jail time at a specific rate.

Civilian killed, is not something that can be paid off. But each of these will cost jail time.

So committing a crime, can involve both of these.

Serving jail time should be seen as hurting your reputation, fixers don't like you screwing around etc. So I think the idea that it hurts your street cred is a good one.

So the amount of street cred you lose serving jail time, could be that you lose 1 level of street cred per day in jail. So if you go all psycho and kill and destroy, you will get a longer sentence and therefore lose more street cred.

Either CDPR make the jail time part of the game itself, so you actually have to do some tasks etc. Maybe you can even pick up some contacts or missions here, get into jail fights, and what other things one could think could happen here, or they simply make a button where you serve the time and you are set free having paid the bill and the street cred, and you can continue the game normally.

Escaping the police
Since escaping the police should be a viable option, this would have to be overhauled as well, first of all to make it funnier, but also more immersive.
Therefore the police AI and "intelligence" should be severely increased in difficulty (Not meaning damage). But if the player gets away from the initial police and their drones. That doesn't mean that they won't keep looking. Therefore any cop in the city will now react to you if they see you and is not already busy with a fight or something and try to arrest you, if you get too close to them, which could trigger a whole new police chase as described above.

Also patrol officers as part of the random NPCs that walk the streets should be added including police drones in certain areas, like city center etc. that will patrol the streets. They could make it so the patrolling policemen and drones couldn't spot you in a car, only if its the stolen one, obviously.

So for players to completely remove any police looking for them, you won't be able to just run around the block anymore, but rather there will be places, like V apartment and maybe certain bars, where you as player have the option to lay low for a while or maybe in bars you can pay someone to help "screw up/delete" the police record so they can no longer track you.

However if the police is chasing you and see you walk into the apartment or bar, then obviously that option should no longer exist at these places and the player would have to find another place or get rid of the cops in whatever way.

Conclusion
Long post :D

But in the end, I think something like this could work, it's not overly complicated, only a few things to keep track off. And it offers a somewhat good and realistic solution to the current system. Also it include punishment, that the player can take and feel on, not only in regards to money, but also street cred, which currently is a sort of redundant stat, that could just as well have been connected to your actual level rather than a seperate one.
 
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In the Cyberpunk future, police and the justice system are so overwhelmed, that unless somebody is brazenly murdering people on the street, not much is going to happen.

Steal a car? Yawn. Assault a civilian? Whatever. Now if somebody sees you kill somebody, there's a *chance* that they will report the crime. The more people that see, the higher the chance somebody reports it obviously.

If it does get reported, there's a chance you get identified as the perp after the police investigate. That chance is based on the number of witnesses, where it occurred (higher chance in City Center with all the store cams, etc than in Pacifica), and maybe some other factored.

If you unlucky enough to have the crime reported AND you get fingered as the perp, now the cops are looking for you as "a person of interest". Every time you get near a cop, there is a random range, say 0 to 100 meters, where a cop notices you and takes action. Many will be at 0 meters (they just don't notice you, they have other things going on), but occasionally you come across the eagle eyed officer that IDs you 90 meters away and comes after you.

What do they do when they notice you? First they try to detain you to ask you questions. The office might want to bring you in to answer for your crimes (then you need a justice system maybe with an AI judge and a fine/lockup deal), or maybe just ask for a bribe to look the other way. You are only bribing that one officer, so you might end up bribing multiple guys.

If you get locked up, this is a GREAT time for a side quest line of surviving and/or escaping from prison. Cool NPCs, interesting situations, etc. If you do your time you get out and get your gear back. If you escape you will likely lose whatever gear was on you when you got pinched, and will once again be wanted. A good opportunity for player choice and branching stories.

The above adds uncertainty and risk to being a criminal, but not instant consequences and teleporting police. Break into places using stealth, kill somebody in an alley, or do terrible deeds in the Badlands, you will 90% of the time get away with it. Kill somebody on the street in Pacifica, maybe 60% chance you get away with it. with no repercussions. Kill somebody on a sidewalk in Corpo Plaza with 50 witnesses, you're 90% of the time going to have a price on your head.

And of course, there are the bounty hunters...
 
The above adds uncertainty and risk to being a criminal, but not instant consequences and teleporting police. Break into places using stealth, kill somebody in an alley, or do terrible deeds in the Badlands, you will 90% of the time get away with it. Kill somebody on the street in Pacifica, maybe 60% chance you get away with it. with no repercussions. Kill somebody on a sidewalk in Corpo Plaza with 50 witnesses, you're 90% of the time going to have a price on your head.

And of course, there are the bounty hunters...
I agree that in certain areas the police should simply not respond, it should be off limits. But most of Night city as it is now, if one just look at the city in the game, doesn't really reflect that. I feel safe no matter where I am in Night city, whether that is badlands, Pacifica or city center. The area look different, but are equally safe gameplay wise.

But if you look at downtown, even right outside V apartment there are lots of cops, both those knocking at your neighbour's door, some sitting down in the "lobby", right outside the apartment block you have the police investigating a crime scene.

(Funny how you can give all these examples in a game, where no two play through should be the same :D)

Anyway so the police is active in some parts of the city. But I think this is more of a general problem in CP more than anything else. And falls in two categories:

1. Scripted like crazy
2. Handholding

First part is that so much of Night city is scripted events so nothing really happens by accident. Like a police shootout with gangs, can only happen at very specific places and are basically just repeated X amount of times, sometimes forever or sometimes just one time, but nothing is random about it.

The next part is the handholding, which there is a lot of in CP, if you need to know something or need something in general, CP will deliver it to you without you having to do anything.
By this I mean that if there is a mission nearby you get a call. If you need a car/motorcycle, you are given several within the first couple of hours. Anything dangerous around the corner, you will be told by small icons above their head and you can just run around them. There is no gangs (at least not what I have seen) that go from A to B, mocking people on the way or causing all sorts of trouble, which could eventually cause the police to react or random shootouts between different gangs or gangs and civilians. All "hotspots" are just hanging out and well marked or scripted events that will last forever until you as a player decide to participate in them. Like a holdup of a random NPC, will last until you "remove" the marker from the map.

All these things in my opinion, is what is causing a lot of issues with the game, there is basically no dynamic events in the game. There is nothing for the police/fire department/Trauma team to react to, not even sure if a fire department exist in the game, there is nothing for the gangs or civilians to do either etc. Which is most likely why they walk around like zombies or just hanging out.

How awesome would it be to occasionally see one of those huge buildings on fire and the news talking about it, the fire department there with flying cars etc. Trauma teams actually going places picking up people, police reacting to gangs, robberies, car accidents etc. all which could be dynamically generated.

Night city should feel alive and V should simply be yet another person there, everything as it is now is ONLY reacting to V, and heavily scripted events, which again is only in relation to V.

So as I see it, even if a better police system is implemented, they still need to make the city come alive, if the police is only angry at V, but ignore the gangs its pointless. Check this clip which is rather funny and shows how incompetent the police AI is, or more how none existent it is:


Something like that is just not very immersive :)
 
Think there's some good ideas already mentioned. Like the idea that if the police take you down, you loose X amount to bribe your way out.

Something I was thinking was it kind of mad how as soon as you commit any 'illegal' act, the NCPD immediately have the report and you immediately have a warrent issued against you. I think it would be more immersive, if you had to commit several criminal acts and a day or two had to pass before the warrants were issued against you. Like the NCPD had to piece together the crimes and work to track you down.
 
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There's really not much. A: copy GTA's cop system. B: Four star triggers the hover car cops. Which have set spawn areas. And have to have building avoidance and cut offs. When the player goes into closed off areas. Wanted system cannot be triggered unless a NPC can spot and call in. Illegal NPC's can't be used. Which is where GTA V cheated. They used the animals to report you. When NPC attempts to call in. Since we have access to the police system. You get the message first. Since you are right there. You now have to get rid of the NPC. C: Copy RDR2's cop system here. You kill or make the NPC run away. This than increases street cred and makes less and less NPC's want to call you in.

If I could integrate it into story missions. Abusing the the cop system would make Regina kick you off the cyber missions. If you got caught enough times. Additional changes. High enough encounters and bypasses of NCPD system. You can hack Skippy and disable its lockout on the first go. I'd probably also repurpose the finished police uniform that V was suppose to get. And use it to evade cops. If you can kill all in visual range cops. Duck behind a wall so NPC's can't see. And switch to the cop uniform. The stars begin blinking and time out.
 
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Another thing that bugs the *@#&^* out of me is the yellow chevrons over "dangerous" individuals. Part of the joy of a game like this should be the uncertainty of knowing who exactly is a threat, and who is just going to the mini-mart. Also, we need wandering criminals...not often, but occasionally, one of the wandering NPCs should try to jack V for their wallet or vehicle. Maybe they have a friend or two, maybe alone.

NC feels *way* too safe, there is currently no chance of Bad Things happening if you just avoid the yellow chevrons. That's not even true in 2021 Atlanta, which is nearby to me.
 
The simpliest the better: when you commit a crime, you'll have a "wanted" status: encountering cops or drones will trigger a search zone. Since cameras and drones are everywhere, you can always hope to hack them or hide long enough to lose the wanted status, otherwise, you're good for a chase or a gunfight...which will trigger level 2 wanted: MaxTac and shoot to kill (you shot at NCPD officers...)

The wanted system should be dynamic: rob or kill a lowlife megabuilding resident and you'll merely be wanted. Kill a corpo or anyone owning a Trauma Team membership: MaxTac is on you. You should be able to unlock cyberware to slow down the NCPD searching you or even erasing a level 1 search. Level 2 search is not hackable but some perks might help you hiding :)
 
But if you look at downtown, even right outside V apartment there are lots of cops, both those knocking at your neighbour's door, some sitting down in the "lobby", right outside the apartment block you have the police investigating a crime scene.

And all of that is 100 static and pre-scripted. Walk by the cops sitting at the vendor near the entrance. They have the same conversation. every. time. The cops out doing work are in the same places, all day every day. You never see a police car in motion, ever.

I don't think this game has any AI to speak of, and no pathing at all.
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The simpliest the better: when you commit a crime, you'll have a "wanted" status: encountering cops or drones will trigger a search zone. Since cameras and drones are everywhere, you can always hope to hack them or hide long enough to lose the wanted status, otherwise, you're good for a chase or a gunfight...which will trigger level 2 wanted: MaxTac and shoot to kill (you shot at NCPD officers...)

The wanted system should be dynamic: rob or kill a lowlife megabuilding resident and you'll merely be wanted. Kill a corpo or anyone owning a Trauma Team membership: MaxTac is on you. You should be able to unlock cyberware to slow down the NCPD searching you or even erasing a level 1 search. Level 2 search is not hackable but some perks might help you hiding :)

Simpler is better only for casual players who want a GTA style shoot-em-up. If you want a deep and engaging game that will constantly surprise and challenge you, then simplistic is NOT what you want.
 
Simpler is better only for casual players who want a GTA style shoot-em-up. If you want a deep and engaging game that will constantly surprise and challenge you, then simplistic is NOT what you want.

You don't seem to know how things work. Every good game mechanich is simple in its core. You want challenge and surprise ? Keep it simple but dynamic. Being arrested and put in jail to evade 150 times is dumb, unrealistic and no one wants that.

A two level wanted system yet simple is triggering shootouts, car chases, infiltration gameplay, netrunner gameplay, maybe some disguise/blend in the crowd, some RPG style choice (go after potential good loot by killing TraumaTeam affiliated citizens and risk a swift end by MaxTac and TT or continue to brawl low end thugs, accumulating mediocre loot but at no costs for your street cred...)
 
The cop system could be used also as a diversion. If you're in a mission and are trying to escape. Trigger the cops and the AI's can crash into each other.
 
And all of that is 100 static and pre-scripted. Walk by the cops sitting at the vendor near the entrance. They have the same conversation. every. time. The cops out doing work are in the same places, all day every day. You never see a police car in motion, ever.

I don't think this game has any AI to speak of, and no pathing at all.
Yes, as I said in the second post. I don't think there is anything dynamic going on in Night city.

And as you say the AI is so basic that there is hardly any to speak of. If you park your car on the sidewalk, the NPCs won't be able to go around they will just turn around and go back again.

I tried to trap them between two cars to see how they would react :)


It seems like they are just following a path and if that gets interrupted then they turn around, and if they hear a gunshot or anything they just despawn, if they are close.
 
Yes, as I said in the second post. I don't think there is anything dynamic going on in Night city.

And as you say the AI is so basic that there is hardly any to speak of. If you park your car on the sidewalk, the NPCs won't be able to go around they will just turn around and go back again.

I tried to trap them between two cars to see how they would react :)


It seems like they are just following a path and if that gets interrupted then they turn around, and if they hear a gunshot or anything they just despawn, if they are close.

God it's Vice City's level. A game created almost TWENTY YEARS ago.

That's unbelievable.
 
the issue with the wanted system lies with the poor A I. The A I is not smart enough to make npcs get into vehicles and pursue your character like in grand theft auto. There is no vehicle combat in the game either aside from scripted instances during some missions. So cyberpunk has an awkward system where the police simply appear in your vicinity when you commit a crime. Perhaps the developers could have done something with that by putting teleportation in the game and adding some cool special effects instead of having the police appear out of no where when you commit a crime.
 
There is no vehicle combat in the game either aside from scripted instances during some missions.
And even that is hardly true... unfortunately. :D

Those car chases can only end in two ways depending on which ones they are, if it's normal cars, you might as well just wait them out, the cars will crash or explode on their own at specific times, regardless of whether you shoot them or not.

Then there is the drone chase, which will automatically kill you if you don't kill them fast enough, which at least is better than the car chases. But honestly I think if this is how CDPR want these to work, I would personally have preferred some cool looking cutscene of V (The way you actually look in the game) dealing with them in a more cinematic presentation in 3rd person view, sort of like they had it in the first trailer. I don't think such things would ruin the immersion of the game.
 
You don't seem to know how things work. Every good game mechanich is simple in its core. You want challenge and surprise ? Keep it simple but dynamic. Being arrested and put in jail to evade 150 times is dumb, unrealistic and no one wants that.

A two level wanted system yet simple is triggering shootouts, car chases, infiltration gameplay, netrunner gameplay, maybe some disguise/blend in the crowd, some RPG style choice (go after potential good loot by killing TraumaTeam affiliated citizens and risk a swift end by MaxTac and TT or continue to brawl low end thugs, accumulating mediocre loot but at no costs for your street cred...)

Thanks for explaining how "things" work. What you want and what I want can be different, it doesn't mean I don't understand.
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the issue with the wanted system lies with the poor A I. The A I is not smart enough to make npcs get into vehicles and pursue your character like in grand theft auto. There is no vehicle combat in the game either aside from scripted instances during some missions. So cyberpunk has an awkward system where the police simply appear in your vicinity when you commit a crime. Perhaps the developers could have done something with that by putting teleportation in the game and adding some cool special effects instead of having the police appear out of no where when you commit a crime.

I would say 70% of gameplay problems are AI related. There is nothing dynamic, no pathing, no reacting to events beyond one or two scripted behaviors that are all the same for all NPCs.

20% of the rest of the issues are physics issues. Objects in the game world do not work or behave as they should. This makes the AI problem even worse, and frankly might make solving the AI much more difficult. They might have to fix the physics before they tackle the AI, since the latter will need to lean heavily on the former.
 
Then there is the drone chase, which will automatically kill you if you don't kill them fast enough, which at least is better than the car chases. But honestly I think if this is how CDPR want these to work, I would personally have preferred some cool looking cutscene of V (The way you actually look in the game) dealing with them in a more cinematic presentation in 3rd person view, sort of like they had it in the first trailer. I don't think such things would ruin the immersion of the game.
Or actually don't have the chases heavily scripted. Have the lines setup. Clear the road and have the AI chase and attack you. Like in GTA. You destroy the car at your own pace. Other games solve this problem. By having the areas loop. So have the chase loop around a set section of the city.
 
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