Some Issues Worth Consideration (Strictly Design Problems, Nothing of the Technical Variety)

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Some Issues Worth Consideration (Strictly Design Problems, Nothing of the Technical Variety)

  • I Agree With Point 1

    Votes: 13 18.8%
  • I Agree With Point 2

    Votes: 22 31.9%
  • I Agree With Point 3

    Votes: 10 14.5%
  • I Agree With Point 4

    Votes: 54 78.3%
  • I Agree With Point 5

    Votes: 38 55.1%
  • I Agree With Point 6

    Votes: 34 49.3%

  • Total voters
    69
Some Issues Worth Consideration (Strictly Design Problems, Nothing of the Technical Variety)

I suspect this initial post will become very long in length, so I'd like to state a few things right off the bat to show where I'm coming from. I first got into the Witcher franchise with the Witcher 2, and that is still my favorite game of all time. From there I read through several of the books. Since the release of The Witcher 3, I have beaten it twice with the total playtime of both playthroughs amounting to 175 hours. I absolutely love The Witcher 3 and CD Projekt RED, and if this post feels very negative later on, it is only out of hope for an even better Witcher 3 that I say these things. With that said, here are some issues both big and small that I think definitely need to be addressed for The Witcher 3 to become an even greater game. Also, this post will have massive spoilers for the main quest and romances.

1. I think what may be the biggest issue with The Witcher 3 is the lack of level scaling up to the player's level. What I mean by this, is that anything below the player's level should be raised up to the player's level so that there is a consistent challenge all the way through. Right now, there is no such level scaling, so doing lower level quests in The Witcher 3 is almost entirely devoid of reward from a gameplay standpoint (the writing is still strong enough that I do many low level quests regardless) because the enemies are easily handled (even if they're a level or two below mine, I'm on Blood and Broken Bones difficulty), and if I am six levels over the suggested range, then there is no exp reward awaiting me upon completion of the quest either. In many other RPGs, The Witcher 2 for example, level scaling is not really a problem because they are rather linear, but The Witcher 3 is an open world game, so level scaling is a huge issue. One of the problems is that quests aren't zone together by level range, with level 30 quests right next to level 14 ones. This means a higher level player searching for a quest their level has to scour the world looking for one. I definitely think it was the right call to have quests demanding a higher level, but having quests that are locked off to high level players just means the more you level the less there is for you to do. I find the lack of up-scaling to be absolutely exacerbated during the Fists of Fury: Skellige quests. The first quest is recommended to be done at level 30, but upon completion of that quest, Geralt is given another that is at least six levels below 30, so any player doing it at the recommended level range won't get exp for the follow up. Then, the follow up to that quest is recommended for level 14 players, which makes absolutely no sense. Skellige as a whole is a good example of the lack of upscaling being a problem. The main quest to head to Skellige recommends being level 16, and there is a mandatory combat sequence on the trip to Skellige that has tough enemies. But once in Skellige, there are level 12 quests and maybe even lower. The player who goes in at the recommended range will then have little satisfaction from the level 12 quest, and will also receive a reward appropriate to that level in exp and material goods. This is a huge issue, and essentially means any player who wants to try and do all the quests in one playthrough will have to go to places in a convoluted order, bouncing from one area to another in order to deal with the level cap. Higher level players are just screwed, and the way the last third of the main quests dole out huge chunks of exp, players may find themselves at that high level range very quickly. Upscaling solves all of this, leaving the player able to still have goals to work towards while low level and then still having the world as their oyster at a high level. Upscaling might also do some good in pacifying those clamoring for a new game plus mode.

2. This section will be filled with massive spoilers for the main story, so if you're interested in seeing what other issues I'm bringing up, skip down to 3. You have been warned.
Alright, so the way certain choices with Ciri factors into the ending is idiotic, I really can't think of a kinder way to put it. If you don't know, the way the game judges whether Ciri lives or dies is based on five binary choices that it labels as negative or positive. These choices were so minor I thought they were insignificant outside of roleplaying. The choices are as follows. Searching Avallach's lair - being in favor of it is positive, objecting before going is negative. Facing the lodge of sorceresses - going with Ciri (for some reason this is negative, I thought I was being supportive) is negative and letting her go alone is positive. Payment from Emhyr - taking it is negative, not taking it is positive. Cheering up Ciri after Vesimir's death - drinking with her is negative, snowball fight is positive. Visiting Skiall's grave - not going is negative, going is positive. When it comes to the ending, the player has more positive they get the positive endings and if not then Ciri dies, for some reason, I guess she thinks Geralt doesn't love her or something? I find this to be absolutely absurd. Over the course of the game Geralt can plot to assassinate a king, crown the new Monarch of Skellige, and many other great things, yet somehow Ciri will die based on such minor decisions? Getting all of those negative doesn't mean Geralt loves Ciri less, and she certainly still loves him. They have several intimate moments throughout the game, but somehow saying that Avallach should be allowed to keep his secrets (before violating his privacy anyways) contributes to Ciri dying? This is really a stretch, especially since all the other choices in the game pan out in a manner much more logical than that. How is a person supposed to reasonably draw the connections between visiting a grave and survival of the White Frost? It just doesn't make sense, and I think it greatly hurts narrative so arbitrarily assign such a heavy consequence to these minor interactions. This is probably one of the hardest issues to fix, but it really should be addressed, and it's issues like this one that could be changed in the Enhanced Edition of The Witcher 3, whenever it drops, but these choices really should be looked at by the team because for a series that deals in shades of grey better than any other, it seems silly to paint these choices as black and white, which is exactly what the positive/negative system does. Other than that, the ending where Ciri dies makes perfect sense and it extremely well execute (Like the rest of the game) but choices behind the ending are sorely lacking. Also, I should clarify that all the other parts of the ending are very well handled, and it makes complete sense other than this one, but this major choice is definitely the most important Geralt, and certainly is to most players, so having it be based on minor choices that are elevated to major ones for the sake of it is just plain silly.

3. The leveling system is currently decent, but the linear progression of it limits the player's options in character builds. Some of the skills also should be given to Geralt at the start, and really shouldn't be behind a skill point gate. These abilities are the alternate sign forms, and special combat abilities. If Geralt gets them from the start, the passives could still be left for players to put points into to improve the alternate signs and the combat abilities. As for the linear progression, there really isn't a need for it. Right now, many of the lower level skills are just as useful as the higher level ones, and the limited ability slots already makes the player choose which skills to keep for their build, and since the high level abilities just aren't that much better, making this linear really only makes repeat playthrough suffer since a combat build always starts out the same and basically ends the same. Allowing players access to any tier of the skill tree right off the bat would lead to more diverse builds, and my battle mage build wouldn't end up barely getting the rend and spin attack by the end of the game. This would also help players actually put points into the woefully underdeveloped alchemy tree, which is not only comprised of passive abilities, but damn near useless ones until reaching a much high tier. Also, the alchemy tree should probably be retooled because I don't know of any player who has actually gone down that tree for their build considering the combat tree and magic tree are way more useful.

4. This section will contain full spoilers for the Triss and Yenefer romances. Skip down to 5 if you wish to avoid spoilers.
Having played through The Witcher 3 two times now, I have experience both romances with Triss and Yenefer, and I believe Triss has been paid much less attention than Yenefer. Now, before you get any ideas, I don't mean in terms of sex scenes, I mean she has receive less attention and has a less fulfilling storyline than the one Yenefer gets. Now, having read the books I understand that Yenefer is supposed to be the "one" for Geralt, but since there have been two games without Yenefer, and she has been introduced in the eleventh hour, it is completely unfair to give Triss the lesser treatment. What, however, am I basing this "lesser" treatment on? Well, I base it on the fact that Triss' interactions are completely out of the way, and happen much less than those with Yenefer. Yenefer pops up many times in the main story, including a part at Kaer Morhen where she drinks with Geralt and his friends and propositions Geralt immediately after. The "main" sex scene with Yenefer also comes up during the main narrative, whereas any intimate interaction (of the talking kind too, pervert) with Triss only comes up during side quests. After her storyline, which culminates with her and Geralt deciding to get back together, she disappears, and the player is unable to have any kind of meaningful interaction with her afterwards, whereas Yenefer is usually in reach after she comes up in Skellige. Unfortunately, I think the romances in the game suffer all around from a lack of intimate conversation. After the eleven baths in The Witcher 2, Geralt can have a very touching heart to heart with Triss. Most people remember the eleven bath for the sex scene, but the conversation afterwards was something remarkable as it really showed how much they cared about each other beyond simple physical interaction. It was a very important conversation between two people in love, but The Witcher 3 has no romance moments that are comparable. I think if a few intimate conversations were added into the game and Triss received more content than these things could be resolved, this is another case of something that would be worth putting in the Enhanced Edition as it would really add meat to the romances and make Triss' feel more satisfying and developed.

5. Character interactions in The Witcher 3 feel pretty limited at the moment. What I mean by this is that dialogue with many people who are important to Geralt is very lacking. Geralt never seems to really talk about things that are all that important with Dandelion, Yenefer, Triss, Zolton and
(Main Quest Spoilers Approaching) Ciri. In fact, Geralt's dialogue options with Ciri may be the best example of this: Geralt has not seen Ciri in years, yet all he can ask her is about how she travels between worlds, where she's been, and how Eredin tracks her. Ciri has grown into a woman since Geralt last saw her, yet this is all of what he talks about? It'd be nice if Geralt and Ciri perhaps had an added sidequest once they get to Novigrad together, one that focuses completely on their relationship.
Other than just that, the topics he talks to the other characters are equally as trivial. His only option with Yenefer is meant to fill in the plot gaps, but is not satisfying on an interacting with a character level. With Dandelion (Dandelion sidequest spoilers)
he can't even ask Dandelion how Priscilla is doing after he comes back with Ciri. All he talks about is the war or how Dandelion got the tavern.
These topics are good to have, but are trivial overall, and the lack of more meaningful topics really hurts his interactions with them. A great example of character interaction done really well within the game would be his interactions with (Main Quest Spoilers)
Lambert and Eskel. Not even counting the drinking scene, his quests with them are fantastic. With Eskel they bond over a forktail hunt and they briefly talk about Eskel's mother. With Lambert they get to the topic of his bitterness, helping the player to really empathize with him in a way they didn't previously. Then, all of this is capstoned by the drinking scene which is just phenomenal; it's one thing to say Geralt, Lambert, and Eskel are friends, but showing them all together trading stories and playing games with a thick layer or camaraderie goes more towards putting the player in Geralt's shoes than a character entry can.
If Geralt was able to interact with the rest of his friends this way, it'd go a long way towards endearing players to them. As is, a lot of my endearment for Triss comes from The Witcher 2, along with Dandelion and Zoltan, even though those two are his best friends, but it just doesn't come across as well in game. If Geralt had more personal interactions with them, it'd really help. For example, in The Last Wish, Geralt goes fishing with Dandelion and travels with him, having more moments like that would be great. The Witcher 3 is a very character driven game, so more character moments would really enhance the experience and help players form emotional attachments.

6. This is probably a very minor issue, but I think the game needs to show as much nudity as The Witcher 2. Before you form the wrong impression, I say this for the sake of immersion. There are a couple instances in The Witcher 3 where women just wouldn't be wearing anything, but instead they wear panties. A good example is the Sigi Reuvan's Bathhouse: I really can't imagine many women take baths with clothes on, especially since they were likely put there by Sigi Reuvan for the purpose of seducing men. The sauna scene also comes to mind in this regard as well as there is pool outback, yet all the women are clothed. The Witcher 2 didn't shy away from full nudity, and I don't think The Witcher 3 needs to either. This is a series that is grounded, gritty, and mature, so showing full nudity isn't something the game needs to be afraid of. Before I move on, I want to stress that I don't desire The Witcher 3 to become a pornographic or anything like that, just that in the situations where there would be full nudity, there should be.

Those are all of the issues I can think of, and if even a few of them are addressed or considered, I really do believe The Witcher 3 will be a better game for it. I would like to reiterate my love for this game, franchise, and dev. CD Projekt RED has put out my favorite game of all time and The Witcher 3 is certainly in my top five, so thank you for making this wonderful trilogy, and listening to your fans. I can't think of another developer that treats its fans as well as you do, and there aren't many devs out there that share your humility and dedication either. Thanks again.
 
I agree with your point about skills, number 3, in a way.

I think the yellow skills should be passive and not require a slot in the perk tree.

Other than that, don't really agree wit anything else, and the points with spoilers I didn't read cuz I haven't beaten the game yet
 
My vote goes to "I don't agree with this bullshit at all"

1. Dumbes shit ever invented in RPG games is level scaling
2. Events connected with Ciri affects endings about Ciri in game which is about Ciri, nuff said
3. Game is easy, you would make it even easier...
4. Just get over it, Triss is not important person in this story. I'd like quest to rescue Roach from evil butchers but I'm not bitching about it like bunch of Triss lovers all over this forum.
5. You could always ask for more and more and more.
6. Just go watch some porn
 
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Definitely agree with 4 & 5 in terms of more interactions with lovers and interactions with other core cast being needed.
I sort of agree with 6 in principle but the compromise they went with is not something that gets me particularly agitated.
 
1. i understand whatyou mean, but i dont think it is wrong. Sure it is easier because you always, always, ALWAYS have the chance to pick your fight, and the worst thing it can happen to you, once you picked a easy enough level and once you tried to cavarly charge at enemies, is too flee and come back later: but i wish enemies would chase you longer and that roach wouldnt be the fastest animal on earth.

But on this respect i find much dumber level objects and level cap objects. The same weapon can have a span up to 40 points between min and max, and that leads to involuntary laughs as i (being lvl 17) have something like 8 swords with oh so fancy eldar names but my strongest weapon is a dull hatchet, by 24 points. I can wield the fabulous Emmenthaler, but i cannot use a pickaxe. At the same time, the whole crafting and alchemy system is a mess, bugs notwithstanding. There's no way in hell anyone is going to remember or link a certain substance to a certain potion or item he plans to create, because "myrth petal" has no relationship with -say- a myrth petal's potion, nor is Myrth linked to a specific location, and when you add disassembling items to get components to the equation, you have utterly chaos ensured. And so you end up hoarding everything you come across in fear that it might be of use later, which kills creativity and scope to crafting as a fun thing to do.

2. cant say yet

3. skill points are another ill thought design IMHO. I fail to see the point into choosing two different skills on the same area. The very notion that i can "forget" something to "remember" another is sad from a role playing standpoint. One moment i can parry arrows, the next i forget how to do it, but on the other hand i regenerate vitality by sunlight. And i bought these skills. Once bought you oughta be able to use them all. It just adds complexity and micromanagement on something that really doesnt interest anyone but spreadsheet warriors.

4. 5. cant say and cant say, im still under lvl 20 and playing a goody goody Geralt.
 

Tuco

Forum veteran
I strongly disagree with the first suggestion about introducing scaling in any form. If anything, I would fiercely argue about removing the little scalin which is already in the game (the one about random loot).
I'm mostly neutral/disinterested about the other points, with the exception of the fifth, which I find every agreeable.
I don't think the game is *particularly* lacking in that area, especially if you compare it to competing products, but I'd definitely welcome if they added more and more chances of interaction with both new and pre-existing characters. It would do wonders to make the world feel even more alive.

As I already said in another thread, my wish for future DLCs and expansion packs is that CDPR would go for the "Night of the Raven" approach that Piranha Bytes took with Gothic 2, where the expansion didn't just add more areas and quests, but also expanded/improved the pre-existing ones.
 
Number 2 speaks to me the most because it's such a central issue that everyone's subjected to. I'd like to see each of those choice moments expanded so you can still turn what is currently a "bad" choice into a good one.

These choices should also dictate what Ciri decides for her future at the end of the game. Does she feel responsible for the greater good or does she want to get away from it all, feeling she's given the world enough. Empress vs Witcher, the world vs the family, chance to keep the peace while potentially giving up personal happiness vs live life free and happy but not be able to make much of a difference in world affairs.

Imperfect example of what I am thinking:

"Ciri meets with the Lodge":
If you decide to go with Ciri:
- Bad choice if you are then overbearing/selfish or shut down the conversation.
- Good choice if you allow the talk to proceed, are supportive in the background and let Ciri take the lead.
"Family first" if you are hesitant about the Lodge's plans for Ciri.
"Responsibility" if you allow Ciri to see the advantage of the Lodge's interest in her.

If you don't go with Ciri:
- Bad choice if you show no interest because "you've had enough of plots and intrigue" and you just send her in.
- Good choice plays out like it currently does then adds another choice after the pep talk
"Family first" by telling her to watch out for their plans.
"Responsibility" by telling her to see this as an opportunity for gaining political capitol later.

Obviously just a rough example and it can be done much better than this, but I hope you get the idea of what I am suggesting.

Numbers 4 and 5 also ring true, though there's a number of other threads out there where people have elaborated on them extensively.
 
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Why are people against enemy scaling? Its also not about scaling higher enemies down to your level its about scaling lower enemies up to your level - which can be done in multiple ways.
For instance - have minimum and maximum level for monsters or scale to your level minus 5 or something like that.
Majority of the game is no challenge at all because of no scaling.
 
Why are people against enemy scaling? Its also not about scaling higher enemies down to your level its about scaling lower enemies up to your level - which can be done in multiple ways.
For instance - have minimum and maximum level for monsters or scale to your level minus 5 or something like that.
Majority of the game is no challenge at all because of no scaling.

because scaling is too gamey. A world where beasts live not because you are oing to slay them but because they live there for their own is more credible. What is incredible is that wolf that you found at 1 level turns into a lvl 22 wolf because reasons. Where's your improvement?

Honestly i would prefer if improvement would be based on signs and unique items (and your own skill as a player) instead of life points.
 
In light of all these new responses, there are a few of my points I'd like to elaborate on. For point number 1 ( level up-scaling), I only meant enemies would scale up to your level for quests and such so that there could be a consistent challenge throughout the game. I don't think the lower level enemies not attached to quests should scale up. However, up scaling would be very beneficial for some contract bosses as there are some that should be very tough, but since I'm two levels above them it the fight is cakewalk.
For point number two, I think those types of choices should impact that part of the ending, I just find the current selection of choices to be lacking in substance. They just don't feel like choices that would have the kind of impact that they do. For point number three, I do not mean that delineating the skill trees should automatically give the player a bunch of the passive skills for free, but I do think that removing all the tiers and then balancing out a few of the skills would help make repeat playthroughs a lot easier to jump into and would help in making different builds. A lot of the active skills you can unlock that I want to be given to the player out of the gate also aren't all that powerful on their own. The different sign variations aren't actually more powerful than the base sign, and don't override the base one in usefulness even when upgraded. For example, the alternate igni is really good for laying in on one enemy, but as effective against groups, which is why I don't see why it needs to be an upgrade since it is not inherently better, it's just providing an alternative use for the sign. Same with the active combat abilities, the whirlwind can be interrupted easily, and rend has a long windup.
For point number six, I don't mean full nudity should be implemented into sex scenes, just into the parts of the game where it seems like it is compromising. Goes for male characters too, though I don't recall ever seeing some in circumstances where they' were only wearing briefs or whatnot. By the way, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read through my post and comment, even if you don't agree. I do appreciate hearing other opinions on this, so thank you for providing them.
 
I think scaling would keep the challenge always fresh. For all monsters ! Let them come. Each level of difficult would vary the amount of how many points monsters get in their stats as they scale up. And just leave a milk drinker level with no scaling for those afraid of powerful foes hueue.
 
because scaling is too gamey. A world where beasts live not because you are oing to slay them but because they live there for their own is more credible. What is incredible is that wolf that you found at 1 level turns into a lvl 22 wolf because reasons. Where's your improvement?

Honestly i would prefer if improvement would be based on signs and unique items (and your own skill as a player) instead of life points.

Scaling is gamey, but something needs to be done to keep the game challenging, and applying up-scaling to quests just makes sense in that capacity. As it is now, it's way too easy to over level lots of quests, especially since they aren't zoned together, it makes it incredibly difficult to figure out where you can actually find quests your level. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the game to have zones, I love that I can essentially go wherever I want, but I don't like being locked out of content because I'm progressing in the game. What's the use in having an open world with so much content if you get to a point where most of it as challenging and rewarding as stepping on ants? Once you level up enough, you basically become have godlike power since nothing can kill you, and we aren't talking super high level either. I spent around an hour looking for level 33 quests in Skellige and couldn't find anything to challenge me. I don't know, it just seems like the lesser of two evils to me.
 
because scaling is too gamey. A world where beasts live not because you are oing to slay them but because they live there for their own is more credible. What is incredible is that wolf that you found at 1 level turns into a lvl 22 wolf because reasons. Where's your improvement?

Honestly i would prefer if improvement would be based on signs and unique items (and your own skill as a player) instead of life points.

i don't know what you mean. The very fact that you can see levels on monsters is 'gamey'. Does it make more sense that later you can fistfight a pack of wolves and tank 20 hits without batting an eye? No, not really.
 
Sorry but after reading point 3 where you say that the alchemy tree is "underpowerd" in comparison to signs and swords I couldn't continue anymore, seriously. It seems like you have played a different game than practically everyone else as alchemy is BY FAR the most powerful tree of the 3.

I also cannot agree with you fully that some skills aren't more powerful than others. There are some instances, certanly, but Crippling Strikes, for example, is SURELY much better than Precise Blows and so SHOULD require more points to take (can you imagine if you could take from level 1 CS, it would be insane).
 
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