+1 Rot Tosser
Maybe the most broken/OP card in the game. 5 cost. 5 power. Cow poisons 2 enemy units in one turn via an automatic trigger. Almost nothing counters that in a manner that is value additive (Predatory Dive being the one Monster's specific exception).
Maybe the most broken/OP card in the game. 5 cost. 5 power. Cow poisons 2 enemy units in one turn via an automatic trigger. Almost nothing counters that in a manner that is value additive (Predatory Dive being the one Monster's specific exception).
@mazeebra Im sorry but i still get the feeling you dont know exactly what 'Doomed' is.
When a card has the doomed status, it means once it is removed - whether is destroyed, used (like in specials) or gone at the end of a round - it does not go to the graveyard but it is banished instead.
It would not stop copying mechanics and the 'shenanigans' you mentioned. Nobody is using Renew because its an extremely expensive card. But people are using Caretaker to revive Scenarios because they provide tremendous value, hence why only on that case Doomed could actually fix something.
When a card has the doomed status, it means once it is removed - whether is destroyed, used (like in specials) or gone at the end of a round - it does not go to the graveyard but it is banished instead.
It would not stop copying mechanics and the 'shenanigans' you mentioned. Nobody is using Renew because its an extremely expensive card. But people are using Caretaker to revive Scenarios because they provide tremendous value, hence why only on that case Doomed could actually fix something.
I know exactly what doomed is, and that is the whole point of mentioning it. It would stop some annoying copy and replay decks. I know for certain it would stop the worst of the blue stripe commando decks, I've tested that extensively and it would not work the same if all spawned copies had doom.
I don't have as much against Caranthir anymore actually, now that they have removed Whispering Hillock. Mostly these were featured in combo gold replay decks together. I still think it makes sense what Caranthir copies gets doom though. Could you tell me, what would happen to that often doube/triple played Regis card if it was given doom? Exactly.
I suggested doom for a reason. And that goes for those gold replay cards of Nilfgaard as well. If they had doom, it would inhibit people from playing some of those worst moves and it would be easier for the opponent to remove the card from the game permanently (no renew). Furthermore, if say Damien had the ability I suggest, people would have a problem keeping him on the board after play, if he got both doom and 3 body after use of the order. Ofcourse, it wount stop the most desperate people from pulling these kind of moves off, but it will inhibit them and give lesser overall benefit (say with formation).
I'm not saying it would stop all the gold replay and endless copies of the most powerful bronze cards, but it would do something. I didn't design the game, so I don't know how doom could be used in an optimal way in the game, but I'm pretty sure it could be used more/better than it is today.
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I don't think I have ever seen anyone play Damien more than once unless it is in arena mode?
I've played Damien 2 and even 3 times, and my deck is not even extreme.
You play it but is it in the current meta to play multiple Damien? Are players netdecking decks with the goal of playing multiple Damien to win? Idk.
It's possible.. I'm not that worried about what I do. I've just heard worse stories. I somehow don't think the "worst" I can do with Damien is the worst.
You can also Assire him (or whatever card, Skellen) I would think and replay it or even use royal decree. I'm not sure how deep the rabbit hole goes, I've just heard people are unhappy with some of the more extreme gold replay moves of Nilfgaard.
My Damien is in a gimmick deck anyways (milling), although I sometimes use him in other decks.
Maybe you heard about the last seasonal mode where Damien was abused to the utmost paroxism.
That was broken...
I've heard about that too, but it's not what I'm talking about, and I'm not only talking about Damien, I'm talking about the replays of very powerful Nilfgaard gold cards in general and how this is somewhat of a problem.
Here on the forum, on videos etc. I play Nilfgaard myself, and I haven't really seen the worst myself, and I don't do try to do the worst comboes, so I'm not talking about my own experience, simply chatter. But I understand how it could be an issue. Because some of those golds are very powerful, especially in combination with whatever else you have going on the board.
It might be more Skellen than Damien actually, but Damien being used in the same mix, in Enslave decks. Not sure exactly, but I do have sympathy for the distaste of powerful gold replays (more than once in particular, however that is done IDK).
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I just made myself an Enslave deck called "Nilfgaard nonsense" to kind of test these things a little bit. So from what I found out, I'm probably able to play whatever gold supporting card I need 4 times in the game using the following cards:
Assire
Kingslayer
Mandrake
Mandrake in particular supports my wider mission and other cards like Johnny and Sarah.
If the card in particular that I am support is Damien or Skellen is irrelevant, I can use either to win the first round and probably keep 1 at hand or in deck and get the other back in the deck for the 3rd round. Both cards are powerful in this deck for two different reasons entirely.
If both Skellen and Damien got doom upon using their order ability, and Kingslayer upon using his deploy ability, it would inhibit some of the worst repeat moves (except ofcourse Mandrake can fix one too). I don't know if I could add "renew" in this deck or if it would be worth it, but is is a theoretical option. Assire is the practical solution. Depending on their decks people can use both (if they reduce their other gold cards and funnel their whole deck into 1 card, ex. Damien).
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Thus far most my opponents with this deck has forfeited mid round 3, and I fully understand them. It must feel unfair the way I play.
Normally I am at minimum able to play my leader in round 1 at least once (take a unit of 5) and come out of round with with a win. Often I am able to put Damien back in the deck in R1 or R2 to either renew my leader or play him twice in R3. Often this means a win R1 regardless of cointoss. Often the opponent gives up while I have 6 cards left, which enables me to renew my leader and play Assire in R2, despite 5 vs 7 cards end R1.
The defender card helps alot, either with Damien and/or Skellen. Normally it is better to play Skellen and War Council twice in R3, and often get Damien back on the board if not drawn to the hand.
If I don't use Mandrake to reactivate Skellen or Damien, the card is useful for other purposes as well.
As such Damien, Skellen, War Council, Mandrake and Assire are my most important cards, while Vigo's Muzzle, Kingslayer, defender and Sweers are useful supporting cards (rather than primary cards).
The rest of the cards are there merely as deck fillers than anything else.
Playing war council in R3 x3 is an absolute killer, same is 2-3x leader in round 1 with leader also R3 (usually this far). I don't even know the deck well yet, just been testing it for a bit. Not sure if it is strong, but it's definitely strong on the shenanigans/trolling factor.
Those are the kind of decks that I don't think benefit this game at all. When the opponent feels like you're basically just a troll and leave already mid R3 knowing they have lost (because yet again you play those same cards).
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If Damien give himself doom and 3 power when using his order ability, it would solve some of the worst issues. It would be possible to remove him from the game permanently (with a 3 damage unit) before the player is able to use Mandrake, and it would prevent Assire on Damien (if the opponent is able to remove him while doomed). It would also force a significant point loss for those using the formation leader ability to keep Damien out of harms way before using him.
It would also prevent Letho Kingslayer copy of Damien (if the opponent is able to damage by 3 or more while doomed && ordering is "normal").
The same is probably true for Skellen (give self doom and set power to 3) and Kingslayer (give self doom) if the opponent in the case of Kingslayer has a 5 body removal.
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@mazeebra I have to admit i didnt think of Mandrake and since Gwent HC i dont think i ever used it, even though it opens up many interesting possibilities. Tell me, when you use Mandrake on a order unit that already used his order (Damien for example), i assume it restores the order? But you have to wait one turn correct?
On the other side, i now see the problem with your suggestions - you are worried that something that is possible might be OP and so should be nerfed. However, if no one is using that strategy is it really worth it? I mean, the devs already cant handle balancing the OP popular cards and they would spend time changing what are hypothetical OP cards? I dont think that should be a priority.
Also, on the current meta, NG is super popular and almost everyone is heavily teched against NG Defender, Damiens and Skellens, even when these are buffed to 7pts. From the last 30 Damiens i've seen, i countered probably 25, some i even seized with a SY deck specifically made to steal Damiens and replay my SY Leader.
On the other side, i now see the problem with your suggestions - you are worried that something that is possible might be OP and so should be nerfed. However, if no one is using that strategy is it really worth it? I mean, the devs already cant handle balancing the OP popular cards and they would spend time changing what are hypothetical OP cards? I dont think that should be a priority.
Also, on the current meta, NG is super popular and almost everyone is heavily teched against NG Defender, Damiens and Skellens, even when these are buffed to 7pts. From the last 30 Damiens i've seen, i countered probably 25, some i even seized with a SY deck specifically made to steal Damiens and replay my SY Leader.
Lol, me neither. It's actually on my list up there of "bad" cards.. "Mandrake: does anyone use this?"
It resumes order units yes, but to the deck builder state, so you have to wait one turn again..
I found plenty of other good uses for Mandrake actually when I did not use to to re-use my own unit. Resetting a high boosted enemy for example, saving my "defender" (better for NR than NG), and some other things I can't remember right now.
Well, I'm not the one complaining about Nilfgaard. I included several of those cards just from what I heard and what I can imagine. I don't know how many people complain about it or how big a thing it is, but I definitely think it is relevant. After testing "the worst moves of Nilfgaard" I found that it supports what those people are saying. Some of those moves I could make were pretty obnoxious and troll like, and I don't even know my "Nilfgaard nonsense" deck that well yet. Note that I like the cards and the abilities and so fourth, it's just the endless OP replays. I understand people think that is unfair, and I also don't think it should be like that.
I imagine a solution like I suggested is like a middle way and will allow those cards to be used as intended, but root away the worst replays etc. If both Damien and Skellen get doom and 3 body after using order, it gives the opponent a fair chance to get rid of them. If Kingslayer stays the same as now, it gives the player an equally fair chance to use it as now, but also a better chance for the opponent to remove it from the game (which it would be at round end unless doom was removed).
I think this way it would also do something against formation decks using these cards, dropping from 7 to 3 after use would weaken those moves a bit.
Well, NG has been popular for awhile now, but I guess they keep growing, and those cards are even more frequently used, and even as you say, people specifically bring techs against them. I think all good signs that something is not entirely right with those cards.
I don't normally use Skellen actually, and I only rarely use Damien in a real deck, mostly in gimmick decks, namely because he is so prone to be removed, thus making it an 11p high risk play.
If you are using multiple Damiens and Skellen in a way that allows you to win, I say go for it. I don't think interesting decks should force the devs to change certain cards. Of course, I am completely wrong since they changed epidemic and the resilience card.
I just don't see any players so far in both this season or last season playing Nilfgard the way you mention.
I am all for it though, since I am sick and tire of seeing the same mystic echo / and now greatswords over and over this season.
I just don't see any players so far in both this season or last season playing Nilfgard the way you mention.
I am all for it though, since I am sick and tire of seeing the same mystic echo / and now greatswords over and over this season.
Again, I'm not the one saying it is a problem, I've just heard it is a problem, I understand why it could/is be a problem, and I've tested it a little and find it a bit disturbing.
I'm generally not strongly in favour of allowing to replay very powerful gold cards over and over again, except as an exception to the general rule that you play a gold card once. An exception would allow you to play a gold card twice. But when we talk of 4-5 times, it's a bit extreme.
I don't know how useful it can be, it's also been awhile since I played ranked games (summer 2019), but I've seen various similar plays be used. Not the most extreme cases, but nonetheless a bit disturbing.
I like Damien and have nothing against the ability (it is an exception), and I generally don't have anything against Nilfgaard personally. I think the cost vs gain factor plays a role too. But then again, I have seen players in the past who tries to exploit whatever they can to make the most absurd and obnoxious troll decks, and I am sure Nilfgaard is no exception to this.
I don't like the kind of decks that exposes annoying flaws in the meta of the game, and I would prefer if those holes were closed to some degree (while still allowing rich, fun and interesting moves).
Adding to this syndicate, a few annoying things in addition to cards that are problematic. Mentioned before "low-unit" decks based on crime cards is a bit annoying and reminds one of the old time of unitless decks. Syndicate seems to be the least interactive faction of all factions, for example, there is no interaction with coins whatsoever. Syndicate gains coins too easy and there is nothing anyone can do about pocket coins at all. Zealot spam, like all spawn spam in this game is pretty annoying too.
It seems syndicate has the units that can do the biggest damage and biggest boosts of all factions. Seems is perhaps wrong, because they definitely are. Poison mechanic isn't exclusive to Syndicate, but not really a great mechanic as it is, mostly pretty annoying, uninteractive and "binary".
Pretty much all units have "profit" as well as whatever ability they have. Go figure.
Philippa Eilhart
Madame Luiza is uninteractive and used in one of the dumbest combos in the game Change: order
Savolla which isn't a problem in itself (bar the armor perhaps), but due to the silly uninteractive combo, this combo is in like 90% of Syndicate decks it seems (in practice, if Luiza was played, play 17 points, in 1 turn, for free with 6 armour for 9 provisions). Never seen anyone pay the tribute for this EVER. Change: Fee 9, spawn Savolla etc
Defender just because it is defender, but even worse so
Graden because bounty is cheap and you now have 2 easy condition faction destroy units (Moreelse, ok card) 3 if counting Bersodi. Would be fun if Leo and Geralt could also boost themselves by the base power of the destroyed unit. Or not.. Change: Tribute 7-8.
Sukrus why not just make this Skellige only? Never seen it used in SY. Change: Prevent the unit left of Sukrus without status.. OR Remove status to the unit of the left and prevent damage.
Sir Skewertooth welcome back immunity, I thought this was done with. Like a supercharged Milva with 1 provision higher and 2 extra body. Intimidate 2 combined with immunity is very bad, especially considering it will be like a special cards situation which should be annoying enough for the opponent. Change: Best is probably to drop the immunity option alltogether. Or intimidate 1 instead of 2.
Borsodi brothers ewald is the card that can do the most damage in the whole game, seems unreasonable. All similar units in the game have "cooldown" or something. Change: Cooldown 1
Kurt one of the best lock/purify cards in the whole game. So why does he need to have intimidate also? Seems misplaced, like too many assimilate cards for NG or too many harmony cards for ST. Change: remove intimidate
Witch Hunter Executioner second most damage in the game?
Philippa Eilhart considering how easy it is to get coins with SY, you play a few 4 provision cards, then you have the most powerful seize card in the whole game. Seize any enemy up to 9 on deploy. Makes Vigo and Sweers look like morons.
Nathaniel Pastodi considering how this unit is used mostly in NR and almost always get at least 1 boost, 7 provisions seems very cheap for a card that is a MUST REMOVE or else lose for the opponent. Change: Give enemy bleeding for 1 turn
Mutated Hounds seems like it is in all SY decks, just because poison is not priced right in the game in general and/or not a good mechanic. Change: 5 provisions
Despite some unique features it seems that Syndicate does not really have an identity of their own yet, but just borrowed good abilities from other factions, and thus just have many abilities and less identity, despite some of the unique features of this faction. The mechanics of the faction are quite good, fee, tribute, hoard (too easy), insanity, intimidate etc, but the abilities of the cards are all over the place and lack a faction identity. Aside from the spawn spam of zealots and special card deck crime cards,, there is very little identity of its own in this faction. Considering it is the newest faction it's no surprised that it's not well balanced at all and certainly not fine tuned. But the more pressing question is, what is its identity really? Just a mix of everything with coin mechanics thrown in?
Just some promising bronze cards that could be an indication of what the SY identity should look like a bit more:
Street Urchins
Tidecloak Ransackers
Fisstech trafficker (if poison mechanic was fixed)
Bare knuckle brawler
Wretched addict
Witch Hunter
Fisstech (if poison mechanic was fixed)
Oxenfurt Naturalist
Salamandra Assassin
Coerced Blacksmith
Cutup Lackey
Sly Seductress
Arena Andrega
It seems syndicate has the units that can do the biggest damage and biggest boosts of all factions. Seems is perhaps wrong, because they definitely are. Poison mechanic isn't exclusive to Syndicate, but not really a great mechanic as it is, mostly pretty annoying, uninteractive and "binary".
Pretty much all units have "profit" as well as whatever ability they have. Go figure.
Philippa Eilhart
Madame Luiza is uninteractive and used in one of the dumbest combos in the game Change: order
Savolla which isn't a problem in itself (bar the armor perhaps), but due to the silly uninteractive combo, this combo is in like 90% of Syndicate decks it seems (in practice, if Luiza was played, play 17 points, in 1 turn, for free with 6 armour for 9 provisions). Never seen anyone pay the tribute for this EVER. Change: Fee 9, spawn Savolla etc
Defender just because it is defender, but even worse so
Graden because bounty is cheap and you now have 2 easy condition faction destroy units (Moreelse, ok card) 3 if counting Bersodi. Would be fun if Leo and Geralt could also boost themselves by the base power of the destroyed unit. Or not.. Change: Tribute 7-8.
Sukrus why not just make this Skellige only? Never seen it used in SY. Change: Prevent the unit left of Sukrus without status.. OR Remove status to the unit of the left and prevent damage.
Sir Skewertooth welcome back immunity, I thought this was done with. Like a supercharged Milva with 1 provision higher and 2 extra body. Intimidate 2 combined with immunity is very bad, especially considering it will be like a special cards situation which should be annoying enough for the opponent. Change: Best is probably to drop the immunity option alltogether. Or intimidate 1 instead of 2.
Borsodi brothers ewald is the card that can do the most damage in the whole game, seems unreasonable. All similar units in the game have "cooldown" or something. Change: Cooldown 1
Kurt one of the best lock/purify cards in the whole game. So why does he need to have intimidate also? Seems misplaced, like too many assimilate cards for NG or too many harmony cards for ST. Change: remove intimidate
Witch Hunter Executioner second most damage in the game?
Philippa Eilhart considering how easy it is to get coins with SY, you play a few 4 provision cards, then you have the most powerful seize card in the whole game. Seize any enemy up to 9 on deploy. Makes Vigo and Sweers look like morons.
Nathaniel Pastodi considering how this unit is used mostly in NR and almost always get at least 1 boost, 7 provisions seems very cheap for a card that is a MUST REMOVE or else lose for the opponent. Change: Give enemy bleeding for 1 turn
Mutated Hounds seems like it is in all SY decks, just because poison is not priced right in the game in general and/or not a good mechanic. Change: 5 provisions
Despite some unique features it seems that Syndicate does not really have an identity of their own yet, but just borrowed good abilities from other factions, and thus just have many abilities and less identity, despite some of the unique features of this faction. The mechanics of the faction are quite good, fee, tribute, hoard (too easy), insanity, intimidate etc, but the abilities of the cards are all over the place and lack a faction identity. Aside from the spawn spam of zealots and special card deck crime cards,, there is very little identity of its own in this faction. Considering it is the newest faction it's no surprised that it's not well balanced at all and certainly not fine tuned. But the more pressing question is, what is its identity really? Just a mix of everything with coin mechanics thrown in?
Just some promising bronze cards that could be an indication of what the SY identity should look like a bit more:
Street Urchins
Tidecloak Ransackers
Fisstech trafficker (if poison mechanic was fixed)
Bare knuckle brawler
Wretched addict
Witch Hunter
Fisstech (if poison mechanic was fixed)
Oxenfurt Naturalist
Salamandra Assassin
Coerced Blacksmith
Cutup Lackey
Sly Seductress
Arena Andrega
Some of syndicate cards are broken, only because coins are abundance.
The game in itself needs some serious re-balancing.
But I thought that this was what Homecoming was for.
Idk? In a way it feels less balance than beta... I feel like the most easiest way to balance beta was just to include provision and there you go.
SY is fine. I can't play right now because I'm at work, else I'd show you my deck. I'm rank 13 and when I play my SY deck, I can tell it shocks the crap out of people because it's nothing like what they're expecting. Off the top of my head.
2 Addicts
2 Street Urchins
2 Fisstech traffickers
2 Renegade Mages
2 Arena Ghouls
2 Hounds
Adriano
Pugo
Doadrick
Tinboy
Horst
Ewald
Phillipa
Imke
The one that blocks damage against the unit on the left. (this card is amazing...steal a defender from NG or NR with Phillipa and you're practically invincible on that row)
The dwarf that gives you resiliance for 5.
The gnome that gives you 6 coins after 3 turns.
The one neutral that poisons/order poisons)
Some other cards I'm likely forgetting. This deck is amazingly fun. I freaking put down an addict turn 1 and people visibly hover over it and spend 10 seconds reading what the flip it is. Same with Doadrick. Same with the gnome card that gives you 6 coins.
Tons of players have no idea what these cards are, because they hover over them in every single game I play.
No, I strongly disagree about interacting with the SY purse. That will literally destroy them. You can already remove/impact the units that use their purse. Destroying their purse would destroy their faction. If they have no units to pay fees, then the purse is already pointless.
I honestly think SY is how NG should have been. Dirty, but fair. If people start to understand my strategy, they play around it. Most of the time, they don't, so they don't understand using 4 damage on my addict was a stupid decision, as that's not a primary unit of mine. Or using that removal on Doadrick is what I wanted them to do, because the effect is "meh" at best, but it scares the crap out of them the moment I start drawing each turn.
People don't know how to play against this deck because a lot of the units are completely not-used. Tinboy is BONKERS against ST. They play all their little elves on a row thinking they got it in the bag, not realizing this card exists. Then boom, they're down anywhere from 14-24 in one turn, depending on if you can pay tribute. Same with Monsters. If I'm second to last, they always, ALWAYS hover over this card wondering what the flip just happened. I'd actually be fine with nerfing this by increasing the tribute to 9. It is that powerful.
So, no, you obviously have not spent enough time with SY, at least not with units that don't see play. I plan on focusing on a crime deck next using unpopular cards.
2 Addicts
2 Street Urchins
2 Fisstech traffickers
2 Renegade Mages
2 Arena Ghouls
2 Hounds
Adriano
Pugo
Doadrick
Tinboy
Horst
Ewald
Phillipa
Imke
The one that blocks damage against the unit on the left. (this card is amazing...steal a defender from NG or NR with Phillipa and you're practically invincible on that row)
The dwarf that gives you resiliance for 5.
The gnome that gives you 6 coins after 3 turns.
The one neutral that poisons/order poisons)
Some other cards I'm likely forgetting. This deck is amazingly fun. I freaking put down an addict turn 1 and people visibly hover over it and spend 10 seconds reading what the flip it is. Same with Doadrick. Same with the gnome card that gives you 6 coins.
Tons of players have no idea what these cards are, because they hover over them in every single game I play.
No, I strongly disagree about interacting with the SY purse. That will literally destroy them. You can already remove/impact the units that use their purse. Destroying their purse would destroy their faction. If they have no units to pay fees, then the purse is already pointless.
I honestly think SY is how NG should have been. Dirty, but fair. If people start to understand my strategy, they play around it. Most of the time, they don't, so they don't understand using 4 damage on my addict was a stupid decision, as that's not a primary unit of mine. Or using that removal on Doadrick is what I wanted them to do, because the effect is "meh" at best, but it scares the crap out of them the moment I start drawing each turn.
People don't know how to play against this deck because a lot of the units are completely not-used. Tinboy is BONKERS against ST. They play all their little elves on a row thinking they got it in the bag, not realizing this card exists. Then boom, they're down anywhere from 14-24 in one turn, depending on if you can pay tribute. Same with Monsters. If I'm second to last, they always, ALWAYS hover over this card wondering what the flip just happened. I'd actually be fine with nerfing this by increasing the tribute to 9. It is that powerful.
So, no, you obviously have not spent enough time with SY, at least not with units that don't see play. I plan on focusing on a crime deck next using unpopular cards.