Someone please explain Juggler to me....

[spacefiddle]

I like the idea of the new knife-throwing mechanics, but I don't understand how I'm supposed to use it. Juggler helps with "all knives on cooldown," but as soon as I throw my knife, i'm just staring at the cooldown semicircle .... even if I have four thousand more knives in my inventory. I even crafted a few to make sure they were exactly the same in every way, wielded one from the "set;" no difference. Throw knife, then I'm standing there with my other tool in my hand unarmed, while i have a stack of identical knives in my back pocket.

How do you get the game to recognize the "next" knife?

....the game already has some issues with variety... they don't really expect this tree to require to use our big fat THREE weapon slots on three different knives in order for knife-throwing and Juggler to be of any use.... are they?

<Princess Amidala Meme> ......are they???

(also someone please explain to CDPR that a tomahawk is not a club roflmfao)

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Your knife is no longer "destroyed" when you throw it. So it's always the same who "come back" in your hand. Higher is the rarity, quicker your knife come back. (to try, throw it in a wall and wait, you will see it "despawn" and respawn in your hand).
So either you use one knife in one slot and "wait" until it come back. Either you equip a knives in two or three slots and switch between them (like that, you avoid to wait between each throw).

 

[Ydiss2077]

Yeh, you just need to equip more than one knife. I use all three slots. It works very well.

With this perk, you could easily manage with just two knives equiped, leaving a third slot for something else. But I've just gone all in and it's so much fun.

 

[spacefiddle]

Rats.... probably I would not have minded needing to use 2 or all 3 slots just on knives, but I have been messing with throwing weapons in FO4 along with various Survival tweaks, tuning my own mods, etc.... so while i wanted to mess with the new CP77 throwing system i'm a little thrown-out, so to speak, and don't want to use them exclusively xD ah well, bad timing.

Thanks for the info Ydiss and Fou

edit: but tbh if you have a knife equipped and throw it, and you have more of the same weapon, the next one should just come up... like every other game on earth ;P. Now speaking of strange counter-intuitive stuff I have to go train up my weightlifting so i can be a sniper ;P

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Rats.... probably I would not have minded needing to use 2 or all 3 slots just on knives, but I have been messing with throwing weapons in FO4 along with various Survival tweaks, tuning my own mods, etc.... so while i wanted to mess with the new CP77 throwing system i'm a little thrown-out, so to speak, and don't want to use them exclusively xD ah well, bad timing.

Thanks for the info Ydiss and Fou

edit: but tbh if you have a knife equipped and throw it, and you have more of the same weapon, the next one should just come up... like every other game on earth ;P. Now speaking of strange counter-intuitive stuff I have to go train up my weightlifting so i can be a sniper ;P

Honestly it's better than before where knives simply vanished... annoying when you threw a legendary one (So it's not perfect, but in progress for sure).
Yes, because those weapons require an high level in body, who mean that a "normal" person should simply break their arms after using this kind of weapons... (a Grad is literally a portable tank gun). So that make sense, in my opinion

 

[spacefiddle]

Well, the thing in games is that they can't make sense. Not don't; can't. Sure, any marksman ready for combat needs physical conditioning to be effective. But real people aren't divded into 5 categories of progressing unlocks Choosing to throw in random thoughts of "realism" such as "hey this antimateriel rifle is heavy as fuck, let's give it a high Body requirement" punishes the player who did what the game taught them to do, and invested their points in other areas. There's absolutely nothing in the game whatsoever that warns you and lets you prepare, which is the point of having the greyed-out skills on the tree: so people can see what they need to be working towards. Then suddenly, surprise sucka!

It's just bad design that conflicts with itself. A huge problem that remains in CP77 are the internal inconsistencies, and especially, so many places where the player lacks information.... or gets wrong information... to make decisions with . This will only ever lead to frustration, and there's just no reason for it except some dev or manager said "it's heavy and i'm making it need body and that's my final decision" which is not how things should be designed

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Choosing to throw in random thoughts of "realism" such as "hey this antimateriel rifle is heavy as fuck, let's give it a high Body requirement" punishes the player who did what the game taught them to do, and invested their points in other areas. There's absolutely nothing in the game whatsoever that warns you and lets you prepare, which is the point of having the greyed-out skills on the tree: so people can see what they need to be working towards. Then suddenly, surprise sucka!

Hum... It's noticed on the weapon description that it require 10 in body (6 before 1.5), so it's not really a "surprise"...
And it's like that for many things... You don't have enough Reflex skill, you can't use Sandevistan. You don't have enough Body skill, you can't use Bersek. You don't have enough INT Skill, you can't install some cyberwares. You don't have enough Tech skill, some doors will stay locked and items uncraftables...
You can't get everything, that's all

 

[spacefiddle]

> Hum... It's noticed on the weapon description that it require 10 in body

Exactly. So how do you know until you get the weapon? That' IS the surprise. In all other cases you mention, you can browse stores, look at your tech tree, etc., and see requirements for things. And that very infornation you list is what informs the player of how to make their build.

Then, say, you do Riders on the Storm and the requirements *change* from what they used to be.

That's the point. And i'm really not sure why you're arguing against it, except that you keep missing the actual important parts of it lol

 

[andrewdilley]

> Hum... It's noticed on the weapon description that it require 10 in body

Exactly. So how do you know until you get the weapon? That' IS the surprise. In all other cases you mention, you can browse stores, look at your tech tree, etc., and see requirements for things. And that very infornation you list is what informs the player of how to make their build.

Then, say, you do Riders on the Storm and the requirements *change* from what they used to be.

That's the point. And i'm really not sure why you're arguing against it, except that you keep missing the actual important parts of it lol

I think I'm missing your point too

 

[spacefiddle]

Probably you're both too familiar with the game by now. You already know what you need to do, and can make builds without thinking about it.
But always it's the new player first time experience that "teaches" the player how you designed your game, and the player has to be able to trust what you're telling them.
So for a new person, It's like this:

You're new, you start the game, you know nothing. To stay with the Snipe example - let's say you decide you'd like to focus on Sniper rifles and long-range combat.
You look at the skill trees, there's a ton of skills to unlock, you start seeing the perks that go together that make a good sniper build, what Attributes you need to work towards.
So you put your skillups into those Attributes and Perks and start down the path.
You play smart and don't spend too many points outside what you're focusing on so you don't nerf yourself. You see that the other Attributes don't have perks that help you snipe, according to the game, so you are smart and listen to the game's advice and work mostly on the perks that go together.

Then you do Riders on the Storm and Panam gives you the rifle she's been covering you with through the whole quest chain. Sweet!
And then you look at it in inventory - and you can't fully use it, even tho it's a sniper rifle and you're a sniper, because you've been focusing on sniper skills.... that don't let you use this sniper rifle. Because it needs the attribute you use for punching people in the face in melee. Which, as a sniper, you have almost completely ignored.

You see?

Consider also that the machine guns need the same Body threshhold as the antimateriel rifle. It is in no way "realistic" that the strength needed to heft around, let alone control recoil effectively during sustained fire, the HMG is the same as what you need to fire the sniper rifle single-shot from a braced position. Not remotely the same. So it's not very "realistic" after all.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

You see?

Nope, I don't. Sorry
In all games, you have to discover "things" before knowing them.
And how you can plan to build a "Sniper character" when you don't have a real sniper rifle yet (Grad) ?

 

[spacefiddle]

Wait sorry are you seriously saying you don't know anything about planning character builds? You've never read any of the perk descriptions in the game and said "i would like to work towards getting that, i wonder what else goes well with it?" That it's, like, kind of a common and well-known thing that people theorize about, make tools and calculators for, discuss for fun both in terms of role-playing on one end or trying to go for the perfect min-max on the other?

This is really completely unknown to you, eh? I call BS. You're just arguing to argue because it's not something you thought of so you're filling the air with nonsense. Go away.

 

[andrewdilley]

Wait sorry are you seriously saying you don't know anything about planning character builds? You've never read any of the perk descriptions in the game and said "i would like to work towards getting that, i wonder what else goes well with it?" That it's, like, kind of a common and well-known thing that people theorize about, make tools and calculators for, discuss for fun both in terms of role-playing on one end or trying to go for the perfect min-max on the other?

This is really completely unknown to you, eh? I call BS. You're just arguing to argue because it's not something you thought of so you're filling the air with nonsense. Go away.

You are seriously getting over-excited about this. So, you get gifted a great sniper rifle and find out you need to build-up another attribute to use it, and this makes you loose your mind? Just build-up that attribute!