Something Ends Something Begins

[YSMIRSSON]

Something Ends Something Begins

I haven't seen a B&W thread about the possible endings and the paths that lead to them yet.
So this is the best summary I've found so far: https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/02/the-witcher-3-blood-and-wine-endings-how-to-get-the-best/
Has anybody managed to get different endings somehow?

 

[hedop]

I have only played through once and gotten the good ending. Gonna start a second playthrough now and probably going to have Syanna killed by Dettlaff and let him get away with her. I won't let that little shit ruin the Duchy because she is oh so sad someone threw her out 20 years ago. I hate that little shit and after I had to kill Dettlaff and Regis got basically chased out of Toussaint I really wonder what the devs were thinking having this shitty ending as sort of the best one you can get? The best one would be: Syanna dead, Dettlaff leaving, Regis staying, you still get the order of merit or whatever and go with the thanks of the Duchess.

How is it that Anna Henrietta is happy to hand out death sentences for imagined slights or unfaithful lovers yet she is perfectly happy to forgive her sister who had 4 knights killed, planned to kill her, caused Detlaff and his vampires to run roughshot over Beauclair and probably kill hundreds, steal the ducal wine and incite rebellion in her subjects? This is such a bunch of bullshit. If she really did that the Duchy would be up in fucking arms.

 

[YSMIRSSON]

Well I think it's just loyal to the witcher world's bitter-sweet story endings.

 

[hedop]

That's not really bitter sweet. That's plain stupid. The mass murdering bitch gets what she wants, you have to kill the one she used and also have the guy that helped you and the Duchess chased out of Toussaint. Shame I can't kill Syanna myself.

 

[YenneferB]

That's not really bitter sweet. That's plain stupid. The mass murdering bitch gets what she wants, you have to kill the one she used and also have the guy that helped you and the Duchess chased out of Toussaint. Shame I can't kill Syanna myself.

Spoiler

That's why I'm redoing my playthrough becouse I don't care about Syanna. The person I care most is Regis and I want him to stay ( on the end he will go and try to find Dettraff and help him but he can always come back ) not have to flee becouse he have to kill his friend who was used in very cruel way. He will not kill if it wasn't for her. Geralt is in jail but Jaskier save him and I think only then Jaskier knows about Regis returned. We still have Corvo Bianco and Yennefer on the end. What more can I ask. This is the bad ending? For me it is the best!ride2:

 

[Bambi111]

I have only played through once and gotten the good ending. Gonna start a second playthrough now and probably going to have Syanna killed by Dettlaff and let him get away with her. I won't let that little shit ruin the Duchy because she is oh so sad someone threw her out 20 years ago. I hate that little shit and after I had to kill Dettlaff and Regis got basically chased out of Toussaint I really wonder what the devs were thinking having this shitty ending as sort of the best one you can get? The best one would be: Syanna dead, Dettlaff leaving, Regis staying, you still get the order of merit or whatever and go with the thanks of the Duchess.

How is it that Anna Henrietta is happy to hand out death sentences for imagined slights or unfaithful lovers yet she is perfectly happy to forgive her sister who had 4 knights killed, planned to kill her, caused Detlaff and his vampires to run roughshot over Beauclair and probably kill hundreds, steal the ducal wine and incite rebellion in her subjects? This is such a bunch of bullshit. If she really did that the Duchy would be up in fucking arms.

Where has CD project stated that both sisters live in peace is the "good ending". vg247 says its the good ending. For me its the "hollywood good ending".

 

[hedop]

It's clearly the most difficult ending to get. You need to actually get the ribbon, which some people might not do, you need to do all the optional side quests after the death of Dettlaf, you can only get this ending if you are going after Syanna, if you don't both sisters die either way because you kill Dettlaf, you don't have get the opportunity to read Syanna's diary or talk to her, which you need to take full advantage of even though it's side content all of it. All the important dialogues are white dialogue lines, you do not need to read the whole journal, yet you have to. Because you can't get those opportunities via the unseen elder quest line you won't be able to have Syanna killed or kill her or in any shape or form bring her to justice. You won't be able to pursuade her either plus the fight against Dettlaf is probably the hardest in the whole game.

So yes, this is the good ending. For the same reason the Ciri empress ending was the good ending and the Yen romance ending was the good ending and the Lambert survives ending is the good ending etc. It's harder to achieve which means it's supposed to be the main ending. Make the right choices, do everything by the book, explore every possibility and only then will you actually get any kind of good ending for your character and the Duchy. The other ending is having Syanna killed and letting Dettlaf go free/kill him which leads to Regis being thrown out either way and you ending in jail, possibily even losing your estate in the future. If you don't kill Dettlaf you end up in jail either way. The other option is to go after the unseen elder, slay Dettlaf, which means Regis gets fucked over again and have Syanna kill the Duchess which in turn means she gets killed by the guards and the duchy without heirs and a ruler falls into chaos and disrepair.

So which of those options are in any way shape or form good? I can think of one tiny tweak that could bring this all to a better ending. During the unseen elder quest, have him summon Dettlaf and bind him. Have him appear with Dettlaf at a court meeting with the Duchess and Damien and present a case against Syanna. If you did your work right, your evidence and Dettlaf's word will convince the Duchess to issue an execution order against her sister and have you carry it out as your contract requires you to slay the beast of Beauclair which she clearly is. Dettlaf is banished from Toussaint and Regis is allowed to stay. Every other choice is just bollocks.

 

[Krull32]

Well i can understand the motives and reasons for Syannas actions.
She was a child, lost everything and was banished because she was born at the wrong time...
The soldiers who escortet her out of the city tortured and abused her....

For me , that are good reasons for seeking revenge.

Sure, how she did it was not the best way, and using Dettlaff was more than wrong (sooner or later he would have found out anyway) , but that was the best idea she had.

Bad there is no ending with the option to talk with Dettlaff and save everyone.

 

[hedop]

Well i can understand the motives and reasons for Syannas actions.
She was a child, lost everything and was banished because she was born at the wrong time...
The soldiers who escortet her out of the city tortured and abused her....

For me , that are good reasons for seeking revenge.

Sure, how she did it was not the best way, and using Dettlaff was more than wrong (sooner or later he would have found out anyway) , but that was the best idea she had.

Bad there is no ending with the option to talk with Dettlaff and save everyone.

Why would I want to save that little shit? Geralt asked her several times why she didn't just say: fuck it and live her life? Even if she succeeded, do you imagine anybody would have welcomed her with loving arms and appointed her Duchess? That's the problem and that is why she was criticised in nearly all the reviews. She is simple minded. Revenge, Revenge, Revenge then what? What happens if Dettlaf manages to kill the Duchess only to have Syanna come out of the bushes and declare her true identity? Don't you think even he could guess that she lied to him? What then? He kills her and that's the end of her revenge? What if she succeeds and he doesn't kill her? She is banished by ducal decree, even her sister did not rescind that degree. So do you think she'll just fuck off? Or try to take a duchy armed to the teeth with knight and guardsman with her handful of rabble that Geralt cut down in 5 minutes?

She has absolutely no fucking remorse for causing half of Beauclair to be slaughtered and no problem killing her own sister that never did anything to her. She just doesn't give a shit until you rub her shitty little nose in it like you do with a young cat when it craps on the carpet. Good reason to seek revenge? One guy didn't give her food, one guy took her stuff, one guy raped her (maybe, she said abused... so he might have simply hit her) and one knight did simply not stand up for her. So... denying someone food justifies murdering that person, taking someones things justifes murdering that person, hitting someone justifes murdering that person, not intervening justifies murdering two people over it. You can't even claim she has post traumatic stress disorder or is somehow mentally ill. She does all that despite of everything. She has a new life, she enjoyed that new life. She does what she does just because... because someone has her shit, supposedly. Shit that she hasn't had in 20 years. Saving her own skin also justifies having half of Beauclair slaughtered and half the city burned down.

She is a war criminal plain and simply. She is trying to overthrow a sitting government that, objectively, governs the people well. She is trying to incite a war within that country which will lead to the death of many and probably starvation and economic collapse. She tries to provoke all that by using a higher vampire with controll over most of the lower vampire population in Toussaint (which I dare say she is aware of) thereby risking unleashing him and his kind upon the inhabitants of Toussaint. Even when she can no longer win she is prepared to simply kill her sister out of spite just... well just because she fucking can and wants to. Yeah she might have been wronged but like Geralt told Renfri you always have a choice. Both of them could have simply led different lives, been content with being powerful on other terms, like Renfri Syanna was the head of a huge criminal syndicate. She doesn't even have a plan. It's like: kill him because he did me wrong, him too, him and him oh and her of course. Then what? The Duchy descents into chaos but she is happy cause she got to drink some wine and have a diamond necklace. Wow.

This girl is so fucked up and evil that I would not save her life if the death sentence would await me if I didn't. I'd have loved for Geralt to plunge his steel into her up to the hilt and cut her black heart out and wipe that stupid smirk of her face. I'd have loved for him to have her head as a trophy and throw it at the Duchess feet and tell her "Here you are you stupid idiot. This bitch wanted to kill you so I did what you were too stupid to do even though everyone in the Duchy asked you to do it. I slayed the beast iof Beauclair. Now fuck off!" Take Yen on my saddle and ride to make some descent wine.

 

[Krull32]

What a nonsense post..sry...no other words for that...Don't know if serious...
Did you actually played it or just skipped everyting and said fuck this shitt ?

My last words about that :

Anna wasnt so innocent , she was a reason why Syanna got much trouble during their childhood. And the trouble syanna got was one of the reasons for getting banished and the fate took its course...
And Anna wasn't helping her later. She only watched what happens so her sister ,so syanna took this as a betrayal. For me-again-reasonable. Last but not least, if syanna would have been not banished she would be the ruler. Not Anna.
Syannas motives have their place.

And Syanna didn't know that Dettlaff would kill the entire city to get her....How should she know that ??
She wanted to go to Dettlaff, but was in prison...So it's more or less Anna's fault...

 

[hedop]

Wow seriously... did you play the game? Okay.

When you "rescue" Syanna Dettlaff tells her to come to Tesham Mutna within 3 days or he will raze Beauclair to the ground. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bqRFrVfYI from 21:34 onwards. He says in these exact words "You will come to Tesham Mutna and explain it all. If you do not I will raze Beauclair to the ground. This I promise. You've three days." So now you will probably say "Oh but she didn't know this would happen when she planned it!" If she didn't think that a higher vampire with that kind of power would seriously go nuts after being told that he was used and blackmailed to kill people than she is absolutely stupid. There is seriously nothing else to say at this point.

Anna was 12 years old when they banished Syanna. 12 years old. She helped Syanna with her nightmares time and time again as you can hear here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJqb3r9lWXs from 15:10 onwards. It also describes how Anna Henrietta defended Syanna against being punished and how they were inseperable. So because a 12 year old Anna Henrietta was scared to admit that she was the one who threw a burning bladder on someone, because she was afraid that she might be the one to receive the harsh punishment that Syanna usually got, it's reasonable to kill her? She wasn't the reason Syanna got into trouble. They both did because they both did stupid things. Syanna even admits that Anna Henrietta probably tried to impress her big sister by throwing the flaming bladder in the good ending. You can hear that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je6BQKDGyII from 13:36 onwards.

As to Anna wasn't helping her later. Dettlaff himself stated that with all his power he couldn't find Syanna because she didn't want to be found and Anna Henrietta really puts this point home. She tells her that she sent out knights to find her but Syanna did not want to be found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je6BQKDGyII again here from 14:33 onwards.

I could also show you videos of Geralt's conversation with Syanna in which she doesn't show any remorse about Dettlaff's death or the people killed in Beauclair. She only ever agrees to meet him when Geralt shows up and tells her what is happening. Before that she doesn't care, she wants to escape the fairy tale world and continue murdering. She says so herself.

So, not to sound smug but all your statements have been disproven. Yes she has motives but those motives are not in any way motives that could justify murdering 5 people in cold blood. Especially not her sister for her faults as a 12 year old child. They are also no justification for trying to wage war and plunging the whole of Toussaint into chaos. Yes if she would have not been banished she would habe probably inherited the duchy. But she didn't. She also never in 20 years thought to send her sister a message and demand back her birth right. No... she roamed the world as a bandit and when she got bored took advantage of a vampire and started murdering people. Sorry but that is bullshit. She doesn't deserve redemption. She deserves the noose.

 

[Ortwyn]

I understood Syannas' motives, but at the end I feel basically no sympathy for her. Olgierd von Everec did terrible things, but when I saved him he was grateful, he repented and he swore to become a better man. The good HoS ending fully satisfied me. But Syanna?

In my opinion Syanna should have been either more sympathetic or more competent. Ok, they treated her bad and I understand she wants to take revenge. But she failed, because she was not careful enough and consequently many innocent people from Toussaint died. Dettlaff and Anna-Henrietta are responsible for what happened as well, but Syanna has at least partial responsibility. She wants Geralt to understand her motives, but the topic of her failure remains to large extent untouched and as far as I know there is no scene dedicated to her that would show that she really cares about the innocent victims of her coup. To get good ending we have to feel sorry for her, but we rather not talk much about the casualties of the Night of Long Fangs, no, it's all about Syanna and her complexes. Maybe Syanna feels sorry for the casualties, but CDP didn't emphasize that.

If Syanna was not supposed to repent and revenge should have remained her top priority at any cost, she should have been more competent. I agree with hedop that she has basically no plan. She is described as manipulative, but in the end she is not trying to survive somehow, she does not present her point of view in order to be perceived as victim during the trial, she does not demand trial by combat. No, she just commits suicide attack, because she has no plan, no more ambitions, no self-preservation.

To sum it up, we are left with two villains that are better than Eredin, but definitely not as good as Gaunter or Olgierd. I was more impressed by Orianna than by both main BW antagonists together despite her having much less spotlight.

I am a little disappointed that we can decide about Syanna's fate only indirectly. Something like an unforgettable epilogue of TW2 - conversation with Letho, vodka and then either fight or farewell - would be nice.

 

[randyrhoads]

Syanna was lost to her own misguided thoughts of revenge, no doubt fueled by her belief in the curse of the black sun. She wasn't bad at heart once but others changed her with their actions and beliefs while she was a little impressionable kid. She did commit a lot of crimes but Dettlaff's attack on Beauclair is not her doing but rather a byproduct of her manipulation. Dettlaff was as much of a villain as her and the only thing that kept us all from killing him was his affiliation with Regis, he really had nothing else going in his favor given the temper problems he has and the immense power he wields.
Personally I believe she would repent once she realizes how her actions have impacted so many lives but such a change would take time given her state of mind.

With all that being said I would have let Dettlaff go if I had an option to save Syanna as well.

I loved the writing in BaW and I'm still not entirely convinced I made the right choices.

 

[hedop]

I hated the writing. It was corny. You also totally neglect to take into account that we are not talking about 13 or 14 year old Syanna but mid 30's Syanna. It's been 20 years. You are telling me that 20 years later she still can not think for herself? She willingly climbed the ladder to command the gang she is in charge of. It's her doing. As for Dettlaff... who has he harmed before that? Regis doesn't mention one "victim" rather the opposite. He keeps to himself, he intervened when someone he considered to be a friend was threatened. How is he a monster? Btw. how is someone impressionable when they have enough malice of their own to pelt a Nilfgaardian ambasador with bladders filled with sewage?

 

[randyrhoads]

You underestimate what trauma at a young age can do to someone. She thinks for herself, it's just not a normal way of thinking but a sociopathic one.
As for Dettlaff he killed 4 people cuz he was blackmailed fair enough but he ordered the whole city burned to the ground, causing hundreds of casualties. It's a witcher's job to take out dangerous monsters.

 

[hedop]

Dude... he gave her a choice. Get her arse to Tesham Mutna or shit will go down. It's not like he just did it for the fun of it.

 

[Bfler.383]

...For the same reason the Ciri empress ending was the good ending...

The Ciri Witcher ending is the good one, because that's the life she wants. She even admitts it at the end of the DLC, when she visits your house.

 

[hedop]

Yeah but she also admits in the empress ending that this is the only way she can actually change things and make them better which is what she wants to do. Of course it's hard.

 

[toudis815]

OK I'll put my two cents to ending discussion. In first shot I got "bad ending" in second "good one". But I don't feel like "good" is good. I don't know, for me much more in Geralt character was to pursue Dettlaff. Yes he was manipulated but attacking whole town, killing Innocent people because women used him? What's wrong with these Vampires? Are they emo and CDPR wanted to give us Twilight reference or sth I love Regis as a friend but saying about making deal with Dettlaff after what he done was bullshit for me. Syanna - I like that CDPR used reference to Renfri and her story, but somehow I sympatized a little but more with the latter. So my first choice was to follow and kill Dettlaft and leave Syanna to Anna Henrrietta to judge her. It was a good choice because What Lies Unseen was so climitic that I can't think about any other quest that I liked so much. Detlafft is dead, Syanna is dead - justice has been done. Shame about Anna death, but that was her choice/fault, not Geralt's, she was warned, but decided to stay naive. Well, natural selection in practice you could say. I did second playthrough because I wanted to see Beyond Hill and Dale, but bad ending will my mine ending. It's somehow similiar Lesser Evil and ends the story on bittersweet note that we can find in books.

 

[Sephelutis]

I hated the writing. It was corny. You also totally neglect to take into account that we are not talking about 13 or 14 year old Syanna but mid 30's Syanna. It's been 20 years. You are telling me that 20 years later she still can not think for herself? She willingly climbed the ladder to command the gang she is in charge of. It's her doing. As for Dettlaff... who has he harmed before that? Regis doesn't mention one "victim" rather the opposite. He keeps to himself, he intervened when someone he considered to be a friend was threatened. How is he a monster? Btw. how is someone impressionable when they have enough malice of their own to pelt a Nilfgaardian ambasador with bladders filled with sewage?

Abit bothersome considering Regis kept telling me how awesome his friend is, and when the time comes he didn't help at all with negotiations.