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Soo Monsters are terrible now...

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Void_Singer

Junior Member
#21
odd, I just faced 3 in a row.... all different. and got curb stomped by 2 of them at rank 19 (that's 3600-3900)
the decks were Speed Consume, Deathwish, and Fog.
 

SoSaHer

Junior Member
#22
Bloodmoon isn`t that bad. Especially the offensive version

I still play it with arround 55%winrate above the 4k mmr level. (currently top 2k players in ranked).

The main reason however is that the deck is a bit anti-meta, which makes it shine. Same with my eridin frost deck, which works very good nowadays as well.
 

radshdacas

Junior Member
#23
It's way harder ton climb with monsters than any other faction. W.A.Y. more.

It is not impossible if you have good low T1 deck (there is no high T1 deck), be it moonlight, or consume and that you play BETTER and have more LUCK than your opponent but it will be very painfull and you won't be able to get to rank 20.

19 will be most likely the top you can get...

So yeah that's not a surprise that only 2 out of 5 pros have a Monster Deck, when 5 out of 5 have a ST deck, Northern Realm, Skellidge decks...

Monster needs a CONSISTENT boost both of leaders and cards, NT needs a consistent nerf of some cards and leaders, Skellidge needs a nerf odf some fex cards, same goes for northen realms machines.
 

radshdacas

Junior Member
#24
I would be curious to see how much ST is played more than ANY other faction in rank 18/20, it's like 75% of the decks mostly handbuffs, then it's Nilfgaard Alchemy, Skellidge Longswords, a bit of Northern realm Sieges and monsters I never see (maybe one in 20 match).
 

Pruny

Junior Member
#25
SoSaHer;n10843361 said:
Bloodmoon isn`t that bad. Especially the offensive version

I still play it with arround 55%winrate above the 4k mmr level. (currently top 2k players in ranked).

The main reason however is that the deck is a bit anti-meta, which makes it shine. Same with my eridin frost deck, which works very good nowadays as well.
I cant play Eredin anymore because my nerves cant handle braindead create weather clears. and these 1point units also block frost value.
I made a Dagon Ancient foglets deck to have fun in casual, it has potential with bridge trolls.
 

minti043

Junior Member
#26
Ok I am going to be honest i am playing monsters now i kinda like the faction. And all you disapointed fellas- fog deck is not a viable archetype. It does not have any cards in the silver and gold tier that can support you and running the fog weather card is simply bad. Something i noticed in the monster leaders is that they are very understated and they kinda ruin your sinergy terribly againts the right oponent.

Lets talk about Daron( as i call him the cracken ) he is your core fog card that will boost your foglets he is 8 powered free fog. And than you have the woodland spirit that is as powerfull lets not say more powerfull since the 3 wolfs can synergize well with other decks. Than those are your only 2 fog effects. Vademaker is much better using a lightning rather than fog since it can remove your oponents ugly threaths. than you get the 3 foglets that are your core cards (4 if you get monster nest) and the drowned ones. Your deck is weak againts : other weather effects :D from other clans obviously monster mirrors -let your oponent fog you than boost your self outvalue him and than keep all your fogs for the last round.Boats and swords since the greatswords get buffed by the weather and you dont have enough removal neither revival. decks that can remove your 3 spawn fog cards. Yes there are only 3 exept the impenetrable fog bronze card whitch is bad it cant remove anything its basicly a +2 card (+6 if you run the foglets but they are bad synergy and you dont have super value) all your oponent must do i skip his turn you have to play extra cards to get back the value.and you basicly die to any deck that runs clear skyes.That is basicly all the decks out there.oh you also lose to boon decks and full moon also can clear your for but your fog can clear the full moon.
So your leader i worse than a starter gold card(woodland spirit) and has nosynergy with all other monster decks. I definately think that weather cards need more stats to compensate for the terrible tempo if 15 stats is the max for a novice gold card and 25 is the limit for overpowered cards . Weather gold cards leader should get at lest 10 power or maybe spawn inremovable fog so that your other cards may not fall to be useless. i mean daron is basicly 10 stats on board you put a fiend and you pass you have put 11 stats on board he is 1 off and he played his leader and than he needs to play somethign extra since if he passes the fog won't tick again.Also foglets make your deck very inconsistent since you dont have that much put a fog on effect like the wild hunt weather effects.
Basicly if you want to run Weather effect i recomend you to play daron with moonlight or biting frost although wild hunt has some huge final round win with all the wild hunt drakkars that outvalue ancient foglets by a lot. And while foglets and wild hunt hound ar ethere to make sense of you using a weather effect in your deck. there is much less fog effects that are usable than biting frost ones and you can boost your biting frost to deal 3 while the fog stays the same.
In order to get competitive fog deck you either need Daron to give you an unremovable fog or maybe make him spawning fog on the roll you chose every turn unless removed something like aura that way if you want to remove the fog he is making you should remove him first and it will give the foglets value not as much as the wild hunt ones but its a good value to get in a leader. Otherwise run him with biting frost. Thats in my oppinion so far i want to make the foglets as good as the wild hunt hounds but they are different deck types support card and i dont think they should have maybe the same statline or playability. so far becouse of the lack or reliable fog you better run 2 to at least make your leader somewthat 14 stat :D.

Eredin breacc glas ( the wild hunt leader) is great he can be a weather effect spawner with the wild hunt hound if you like that slims your deck of one card that you dont want to draw but the minions boosts will give you great lategame make shure you run the vampire and you get Regis to counter the enemy boosters and to counter your oponents regis :D.the deck is very consistent and i see people running bridge troll and wild hunt warror over the drowner. Where the drowner can more your oponents boats away from your oponents greatswords :D despite the fact that greatswords dont need boats if you are playing againts a weather deck. i think they should remove or weaken their self heal its enough their leader just pops one at 10 power and nothing can remove him and you can revive him 4 times.(and its not like the consume behemoths where you get one at 9 power and they just thunder it down you cant revive him with anything and if your oponrnts removes all the 4 behemoths your leaders basicly become eat al lyour minions and let your oponent remove you whole board with one card. not to mention that weather effect do hurt the behemots since yo get consume value out of them you need 2 turns whitch means 2 ticks of weather.)i wouldnt change him for now he can get so much value i cant really evaluate him as stats. the lowest you get is the wild hunt hound and than a weather effect in which case he is 10 but the extra bodies on the floor and the fact that biting frost can be boosted makes him in any case at least 13

Arach queen- as i mentioned later she is easily countered very easy. The only reason i have big success is that people missplay a lot againts me. I missplay a lot too but i like the archetype. her major problem is removal in any form and i dont mean scorch if you remove the behemots in the insect deck its very badsince your leader does not have a built in boost on its own and its the reason everyone plays neckers with her that way you get at least a +10 from your leader if they remove the behemoths. I have been experimenting a lot the deathwish deck is extremely powerfull althoug h i had managed to outvalue it with the arach drones spam. basicly i cope arach drones with necker warriors and get insane values out of even a single behemoth and roaches stick the next round so you can hardly overcommit. although getting that one behemoth to stick is a big problem the bounsing plant( archspore ) should be the card that is your failsave if you behemoths dont work but in the end it just boosts your oponents a lot more than it hurts them like in the greatsword /boats or even the armor northern realms not to mention muzzle :D or other charms and youcant deal with that thing in your deck .I tried the harpies too they have the same problem.the immune stat is a big bonus in the arach queen in this kinds of deck and the harpy woodland spirit combo is amazing value. It gives you a better run for your basic cards. and you can make your monster nest spawn you a foglet :D. Monster nest is a great card and it makes your decks consistent i really think that you caan add some extra monster cards in the nest like nekkers if you havent consumed anything they are 4+1 becouse of the boost.A tip to improve her would be to like make het get boosted every time she consumes so you can get value from the non consume booster cards. its a sweet little change

Unseen elder- or as i call it the weather deck that works :D. But i am not shure he is all that worth it the crafting there is no card that boost vampires and Daron is a nice little weather effect bonus. The moonlight deck is very nice and is the only weather effect that does not boost uncontrollably the greatswords. and if you see your oponent using clear skyes you can just use your moonlight for boosting self. one greatsword and one boat boost themselfs by 4 each 2 turns whitch is how much you get from one boons however multiple greatswords will aoutboost you by a lot. moving the bloodmoon is very powerfull and its the only deck that can make a great use of epidemic although you dont need it. As leader the unseen elder lack the stats I don't know why i have the impression that leader cards should be stronger than the other golden cards. But they are not, at least not the monster leaders.
I think that is he was 5-5-5 (5 power drain untit by 5) card he would be less of a whild card that can lose you the match and become a unleriable removal. People often missvalue the weakness effect from the blood moon and the ekimmara. On first sight you want to completely drain a unit to cleant it out and that gives your blood moon extra spici value. and than a card like the ware can can enable you to even drain a greatsword out of the game and outvalue the other one with your moonlight.

Whispering hillock- its a very conflicting card it plays a lot safer than arach queen for shure. I don't own it played only in arena with it and its very powerfull i would not craft it right away but the organic cards can give you a boost in many ways. Its a lot of RNG situated card if you get good sinergy its a lot of value i not you get downhill much faster but thats not a big problem there are more rounds out there and since all other monster leaders have very little value its the one that has value on its own and the arena is where you will find this card a lot.

So this is what i experianced as monster cards user moonlight should be the top tier deck right now people can play around consume with alchemy and removal its why i would not say consume is the best but consume wil lget you to climb the ladder people can missplay a lot.






 
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#27
Personally, I think monsters are mostly suffering because there's too many ways to lock, weaken or transmute, especially by tutoring or by creating a whole new card out of thin air.

Counters are healthy but when a deck pulls several hard counters from the deck directly then the monster deck player isn't even allowed to play the game.

I mean what am I supposes to do with my Nekker deck at 3600 when 3/4 of the playerbase can tutor mandrake and artefact compression in multiples?

You can't do anything, all your key cards get screwed over. I'd say arrefact compression, however is the biggest problem here as it completely removes the viability of your monster from match...for a card that can be tutored and replicated...that's insane...
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#28
I mean what am I supposes to do with my Nekker deck at 3600 when 3/4 of the playerbase can tutor mandrake and artefact compression in multiples?
A poor example because if Nekkers aren't stopped, they wreck every other deck. Furthermore, such is the risk of one-trick-pony decks; it's all or nothing. Same goes for Sabbath decks as well as NG handbuff. All of them can be shut down by two cards.
 
#29
A poor example because if Nekkers aren't stopped, they wreck every other deck. Furthermore, such is the risk of one-trick-pony decks; it's all or nothing. Same goes for Sabbath decks as well as NG handbuff. All of them can be shut down by two cards.

True to an extent but being able to tutor more hard counters than there are engine cards is getting a bit silly.

Mandrake or cards that lock are healthy counters, they do their job and do it well. Artefact compression is the unfair one since it can be tutored and can have it's effect used by other cards. Permanent removal from the match should be a 1 of.

P.S. Nekkers if not interrupted can do nasty things, yes, however it's no different than several other decks who swarm, handbuff, etc to create similar point value yet don't get cometely gutted by Artefact Compression and other cards to create jade figurines.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#30
Artefact compression is the unfair one since it can be tutored and can have it's effect used by other cards.
Mandrake can also be tutored.

True to an extent but being able to tutor more hard counters than there are engine cards is getting a bit silly. [...] Permanent removal from the match should be a 1 of.
Tutor cards are generally considered to be... troublesome for the design space of the game. No one is going to cast a Thunder (unless they don't have a choice). Instead, everyone will try to tutor such cards for max value. Cards like Mandrake and AC, however, can still be valuable as counters, but at the same time can have little value when no good target can be found. This makes them fair, but risky.

In short, Mandrake and AC are not problematic, but tutor cards are. Incidentally, most tutor cards will be removed in Homecoming.
 
#31
Mandrake can also be tutored.



Tutor cards are generally considered to be... troublesome for the design space of the game. No one is going to cast a Thunder (unless they don't have a choice). Instead, everyone will try to tutor such cards for max value. Cards like Mandrake and AC, however, can still be valuable as counters, but at the same time can have little value when no good target can be found. This makes them fair, but risky.

In short, Mandrake and AC are not problematic, but tutor cards are. Incidentally, most tutor cards will be removed in Homecoming.

I'm on mobile so forgive the formatting, will try to keep it in point form.

1) Mandrake doesn't remove the card from the match, you can, for example, use Slyzard to fet some benefit out of the Mandrake target.

Artefact Compression is different because the Jade Figurine effect remains for subsequent games in the same match. What's worse is turning units into Jade Figurines isn't limited to jusr Artefact Compresaion which compounds the issue of a haed counter with absolutely no counterplay or workaround being too consistent. Add on Mandrake being tutorable and cards that toggle lock status...now you have "no fun for you" decks which stagnate the meta into decks that can answer their control shenanigans.


2) Absolutely agreed, there's 2 choices imo,hit the tutors to reduce consistency or hit the offending cards themselves.

One questionI have though is what about cards that create identical effects of the cards in question?

It only matters when talking about hard counter type cards such as AC or Mandrake, efdecrively becoming a second copy of a gold or silver card that may potentially be tutorable itself?
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#32
Mandrake doesn't remove the card from the match [...] Artefact Compression is different because the Jade Figurine effect remains for subsequent games in the same match.
Mandrake reduces base strength, which means it can actually banish a card from the game. And even if it doesn't, the targeted card loses 6 base strength. This can make Mandrake equally terrifying compared to AC.

One questionI have though is what about cards that create identical effects of the cards in question?
You mean Create cards, like Aguara? Some are OP, but the mechanic itself is just badly designed and needs to go, regardless.
 
#33
Mandrake reduces base strength, which means it can actually banish a card from the game. And even if it doesn't, the targeted card loses 6 base strength. This can make Mandrake equally terrifying compared to AC.



You mean Create cards, like Aguara? Some are OP, but the mechanic itself is just badly designed and needs to go, regardless.

My bad with Mandrake, and yes, equally as terrifying. My concern is stacking Mandrake and AC since both are essentially "staple" cards.

Then on top of that cwrtain decks can reproduce those same effects via unit cards.

Yep agreed, sounds like you guys know your stuff, tutors outside of engines are generally bad, either for balance or for future card design, pick your poison, lol.

Can you give me a hint as to if Letho+Regis combo is getting dealt with?

That combo is something else, lol.
 
#35
It's likely that card combo will no longer exist in Homecoming.
Thanks, you guys are the best as far as card games go!

...and maybe games in general, Witcher series had fantastic dialogue and character development and can't wait for Cyberpunk.
 
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#37
While I appreciate the gesture, for the record, I am (only) a moderator and not part of the development team of CDPR.
You're still in the loop and can answer questions and probably forward decent thesis for consideration.

Imo you are part of CDPR, regardless of your role. :)

P.S. Finding that these days with the 3 card limit even if you god hand as Nekker, you can still lose to other decks who also god hand.

I think what makes Nekkers good is basically planning out the war instead of the battle, if you can stack consumes for R2 and 3 it doesn't matter if you lose round 1 as long as you bait out ace plays from the opponent to keep up.

But if your opponent plays well and draws as well as you did, they can keep up.

Suprisiny Nekkers take a lot of consiseration to get their maximum potential.
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Monster is the weakest faction. I started playing Gwent with Monster weather deck. I comfortably won and got around 2600-2700 mmr points. But beyond that, it was just impossible to progress. I briefly tried consume/deathwish decks (I was and am still a noob and may be missing something), Eredin Biting Forest deck, but was just beaten by anyone and everyone. I switched to ST (with Franchessa) and I could progress, of course with difficulty, now I am at 3100 points. Even now, I hardly get any Monster opponents and if I get one, most of the times I win.

If you want a "top tier" Monster deck I'd suggest Nekkers, they can keep up or outright overpower other tier 1 decks and bar having to deal with Artefact Compression/Mandrake spam are fairly difficult to completely shut down (can still be shut down, you have to play well with Nekkers or you'll run out of consume fodder and end up with 6 or 7 point Nekkers (They should be worth a minimum of 15 points by match end, bar bricking really badly).
 
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