[SPOILER] Adam Smasher. Character we have lost.

[vanderminde]

That has absolutely nothing to do with logic, its an emotional reaction his actions caused in me. And after all the path of actions is forced upon us by the game. If i could have dodged the attack of Dexters bodyguard in the motel and send them both to hell, neither of all the fuss with the relic had happend and i would not have led neither Saul nor Rogue into death. But the game leaves me very little choice. The only way nobody else would suffer would be when i agree to Hanako´s plan wich would make Arasaka win.

And what makes you laugh about my opinion? Perhaps you are in love with Smasher and wants to shove something fleshi into his dataport? Feel free.

I respect cold blood professionals. Like Smasher, Takemura, Adam Jensen, Corvo Attano and others. People who are intelligent and volitional. Who can predict the course of events, take responsibility and pay the price if necessary.
I disrespect infantile psychopaths, naive and agressive idiots ready to start any shit for their absurd beliefs.

This game forces me to kill a high-grade professional for nothing. To go and destroy something great. I dont care if devs named best ending a "Devil ending". Nope, nothing about devil is here. In given circumstances its the only true ending with the best possible outcome.

 

[Clayr1982]

This....

I expected V to face Adam in the climax but in my opinion he was to easy to beat in face-to-face combat (I think even MaxTac would have problem with it).

..and this....

Adam Smasher Boss Fight is pretty much a power fantasy "fan service" imo. Realistically to the lore, in no way V or Johnny can ever beat the millions eddies borg like Adam Smasher. A one grab/shot from him is enough to kill V for sure.

If Smasher must be the big band end boss, they should have tied in Morgan Blackhand. He doesn't even need to be present in the final fight if they didn't want that. could be a side quest where he gives V something to help handicap Smasher in someway. But as it is, you go up against full strength smasher, stand in front of him and spank him with a katana or use maxed out short circuit for a 5 second fight.

 

[Gorance]

Gotta be honest.. i kinda felt bad for one shoting him... i didnt see anything from him..

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

I didn't really give a crap about Smasher the same way I didn't care about the Wild Hunt goon you fight on the mountain. He's just a very strong henchperson.
There were enough morally ambiguous characters or institution in the game to make up of for his lack of relevance, though: all the greedy corpos, cruel gangoons, Alt, Hanako etc. To me they were far more intersting than this psycho in a tank.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Adam smasher never was a complicated character.

He was a psycho before he chromed himself up.
He is still a psycho after swapping everything with chrome.

A killer, who loves bloodshed and violence.

In this game, I dont really see him as an antagonist. He is just in the way. It's not the waste of a despicable character, he is a wasted opportunity to build up an antagonist worthy of V's hate.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

My friends? I cant remember if Adam did anything, just any tiny thing to cross V, to cross me. He killed a lot of people? Hello, Night City! I am a serial killer myself. Deep neck in dead.
He killed Johnny? Not my problem. Johnny Silverhand died 50 years ago. Thing in V's head isn't him. It's just a construct. Limited imitation of a real person. He killed some other poor bastards who broke in Arasaka HQ shooting people left and right? OMFG! Now i definetely must kill him 4 TEH GREAT JUSTICE!!!11
Maybe you're okay with such primitive sentence. With this oversimplified infantile concept of justice, good vs evil brawl. Other people are not. They are asking for a real story, not a fairytale.

well, guess it depends on your ending path. But it doesn't take high morals, he is trying to kill you, or has killed your friends, if you go Johnny path, he kills rogue, if panam, he kills Saul, in all, hes trying to kill you. Also depends on how you play V. But yeah, if you played V as a stone cold killer with no empathy who doesn't care about his friends, then I imagine that V wouldn't have much beef with Adam Smasher. He'd probably still kill him though, because he is against him.

Post automatically merged: Jan 11, 2021

Adam smasher never was a complicated character.

He was a psycho before he chromed himself up.
He is still a psycho after swapping everything with chrome.

A killer, who loves bloodshed and violence.

In this game, I dont really see him as an antagonist. He is just in the way. It's not the waste of a despicable character, he is a wasted opportunity to build up an antagonist worthy of V's hate.

to be fair, he is not really V antagonist, he is just a legendarily strong opponent working for arasaka. He is an opponent of Johnny though, and Probably Rogue. And Johnny main enemy is Arasaka and Corporations, Smasher is just their dog that defeated him, and the last target from back then Johnny can hit.

 

[UgzAube]

Well I find it underexploited. I would have liked to learn more in the game about its history and background. Especially since it's still the one who "killed" Silverhand. And I agree, there was a way that under his air of a killing machine, there was that of a tortured man or something.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Well I find it underexploited. I would have liked to learn more in the game about its history and background. Especially since it's still the one who "killed" Silverhand. And I agree, there was a way that under his air of a killing machine, there was that of a tortured man or something.

Where did you see that? I may have missed it. I thought he actually preferred the heavy chrome and his lifestyle. He yells at you for showing mercy, and the weakness if your meat. Like maelstrom, I thought he prefers the robo life

 

[UgzAube]

Where did you see that? I may have missed it. I thought he actually preferred the heavy chrome and his lifestyle. He yells at you for showing mercy, and the weakness if your meat. Like maelstrom, I thought he prefers the robo life

These are just guesses. To say I wish he'd been more developed for the threat he's supposed to pose

 

[ash23neuro]

Well I find it underexploited. I would have liked to learn more in the game about its history and background. Especially since it's still the one who "killed" Silverhand. And I agree, there was a way that under his air of a killing machine, there was that of a tortured man or something.

Tortured man:
'His lack of squeamishness and sadistic thoroughness brought in enough jobs to keep him in guns, gear, drugs, and brutal one-night stands. But he finally went on that one job where everything fell apart. A couple of rockets turned him into meatloaf. His buddies backpacked what was left of him out of the zone and back to the Big Apple. A mysterious corporate benefactor took note and made him the classic offer he couldn't refuse: corporate service in a metal body, or death. As if thoughts of lost humanity would bother Adam. '

 

[vanderminde]

well, guess it depends on your ending path. But it doesn't take high morals, he is trying to kill you, or has killed your friends, if you go Johnny path, he kills rogue, if panam, he kills Saul, in all, hes trying to kill you. Also depends on how you play V. But yeah, if you played V as a stone cold killer with no empathy who doesn't care about his friends, then I imagine that V wouldn't have much beef with Adam Smasher. He'd probably still kill him though, because he is against him.

A Corporat. Cold professional dealer. When needed - killer. Nothing personal, just biz. The only character whos head i wish on pike - that Abernathy bitch. Others are just occasional contacts. They use me, i use them. If you like you can call it "friendship"

 

[MartineDee]

Stumbled upon this one yesterday

So, essentially, both Blackhand and Silverhand met with Adam at some point, none of them targeting Adam himself. He kind of got in the way because he was targeting them, apparently for the sole purpose of getting a bit more of an imaginary ELO as the top dog of the universe.

V also gets another shot at Adam, under similar circumstances.

And that is where the player's way of playing steps in. My V actually talks the Smasher's language, she wants to be the top dog, and she also counts the ELO. Tho, my V is convinced that she's doing the right thing too, she wouldn't pick an opponent she considers to be a good-doer just for the sake of ELO. For her, Adam Smasher is the perfect opponent, and he got a target painted over his face after that "You look like a cut of fu**able meat. Are you?" comment. That's it. A single comment, and my V already counts him dead. That is kind of Chuck Norris vs. Sean Connery thing in the Chuck Norris in Oblivion series kind of mentality.

Back to the general story, so, knowing all this lore, it is amazing that none else than V gets a shot at Adam and ends him in one branch of the story. V slayed Adam, who slashed Johnny in two. Even without that, it is hard for me to frame Cyberpunk 2077 as a game about Johnny. It reinforces that it must be down to how the player takes it.

 

[CTPhipps]

Back to the general story, so, knowing all this lore, it is amazing that none else than V gets a shot at Adam and ends him in one branch of the story. V slayed Adam, who slashed Johnny in two. Even without that, it is hard for me to frame Cyberpunk 2077 as a game about Johnny. It reinforces that it must be down to how the player takes it.

My take on the subject is that Johnny Silverhand is Obi-Wan Kenobi to our V's Luke. Not just because he's a ghostly mentor teaching us either.

If you look at the Prequels and Original Trilogy, Luke is fundamentally cleaning up Obi-Wan's mess.

BUT that doesn't detract from the fact V does what Johnny cannot:

* He kills Adam Smasher
* He destroys Mikoshi
* He makes a defining stand against Arasaka that potentially gets no one killed.

I do believe playing AS Johnny is a mistake and the Rogue ending should be considered non-canon the same way that the suicide ending should be.

Instead, the Aldecado and "Blaze of Glory" ending should be the two canon candidates.

 

[DjSpyder]

I won't get too deep into my personal opinion of smasher.

In the lore he is pretty much a terrible person before he went full borg, and by 2077 he is arguably worse. He's not a mindless cyberpsycho, He clearly has a high tolerance for chrome and violence, so he keeps it together. But he enjoys the killing, and he enjoys inflicting pain. So yeah, He's still a monster, maybe a monster with some complexity and an interesting back story but a monster none the less.

What I really wanted to get into is these theories for how he could still be alive, and the way I see it, there are only 2 possibilities (3 if you count suicide ending but no way that's cannon so let's move past it)

1.) You side with Arasaka in the end, regardless of his physical state Mikoshi still exits and if the Saka leaders think he'll be useful He potentially has an engram security policy just in case. Plus, if it's an engram they can alter his personality so any loyalty he may have felt towards Yorinobu could easily be washed away, make him a good soldier for Arasaka something they would like.

2.) in any other ending you decide not to finish him off, and Arasaka repairs him. With Mikoshi destroyed there would not be an engram to back up his personality, so if you kill him, he stays dead. IT's highly unlikely that Arasaka has any other location besides Mikoshi to house Engrams, and if they do it would probably be an extremely secure place only for The Arasaka bloodline, maybe one or two trusted insiders. SO, if you wreck Mikoshi and you Kill Smasher he is definitely gone.

 

[CTPhipps]

I go with the theory that Adam Smasher has been dead for decades. The Adam Smasher in the game is an Engram that was uploaded to a robot body. Which means that he can return at any time that Arasaka wants him to.

But I would like to weigh in on the "complexity" argument. The idea that Adam Smasher is a serial killer and spree killer who is just too plain EVIL to go cyberpsycho is actually not necessarily less INTERESTING than a more complex three-dimensional character. Adam Smasher is sort of like how zombies function in The Walking Dead. By being a force of nature, monstrous and irredeemable, Adam Smasher actually makes interesting character growth in OTHER characters.

Because Night City is such a morally ambiguous and twisted place, someone who is just so perfectly black causes people to be forced to confront whether there are lines they won't cross or not.

 

[DjSpyder]

I go with the theory that Adam Smasher has been dead for decades. The Adam Smasher in the game is an Engram that was uploaded to a robot body. Which means that he can return at any time that Arasaka wants him to.

But if you choose an ending that leads to the destruction of Mikoshi wouldn't the original Engram, be destroyed? The way I see it even if it does exist, 50/50 chance of that, Once Mikoshi is destroyed it's gone. We know it can't be on a BIochip like Johhny because that was a prototype, they weren't even sure it would work until V slotted it. So, with Mikoshi gone I just don't see a way to use an engram to bring him back.

The Devil Ending would be the only viable path for that. Unless there is somewhere else, they have the engrams from Mikoshi backed up, but then that undercuts the whole "Mikoshi is the only place they do experiments like this" thing.

 

[MartineDee]

My take on the subject is that Johnny Silverhand is Obi-Wan Kenobi to our V's Luke. Not just because he's a ghostly mentor teaching us either.

See, that is what I am talking about.

In my gameplay, Johnny is a traveler who can be funny at times, and is else stuck with me for the ride. And me with him. My V doesn't like being stuck, it is hard for her to think in direction of her being stuck with Johnny as well. But she is easy to get along with, they get to friendly terms.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But if you choose an ending that leads to the destruction of Mikoshi wouldn't the original Engram, be destroyed? The way I see it even if it does exist, 50/50 chance of that, Once Mikoshi is destroyed it's gone. We know it can't be on a BIochip like Johhny because that was a prototype, they weren't even sure it would work until V slotted it. So, with Mikoshi gone I just don't see a way to use an engram to bring him back.

The Devil Ending would be the only viable path for that. Unless there is somewhere else, they have the engrams from Mikoshi backed up, but then that undercuts the whole "Mikoshi is the only place they do experiments like this" thing.

Engrams are not prototypes/uniques, so it's possible to "store" Smasher on a "normal" relic which so, won't be destroyed by Alt during the endings. She simply destroy Mikoshi which is a server network (online) in orbit around the earth.
(but it also means that even Saburo can also have a "backup engram" stored in a Relic somewhere in Hanako bedside table^^)

Edit : Or on external storage, like the "weird" cube Hanako uses for Saburo in the Devil ending (engrams ar simply datas afterall).

 

[MartineDee]

Engrams are not prototypes/uniques, so it's possible to "store" Smasher on a "normal" relic which so, won't be destroyed by Alt during the endings. She simply destroy Mikoshi which is a server network (online) in orbit around the earth.
(but it also means that even Saburo can also have a "backup engram" stored in a Relic somewhere in Hanako bedside table^^)

Yeah, the concept of immortality makes it hard to really kill anyone of those hot shots.

 

[DjSpyder]

Engrams are not prototypes/unique, so it's possible to "store" Smasher on a "normal" relic which so, won't be destroyed by Alt during the endings. She simply destroy Mikoshi which is a server network (online) in orbit around the earth.
(but it also means that even Saburo can also have a "backup engram" stored in a Relic somewhere in Hanako bedside table^^)

But in those cases, on the relic 1.0 Doesn't it only allow you to speak with the Engram? to implant into a new body wouldn't you need the Relic 2.0? Even if the engram is backed up somewhere they wouldn't have the tech to Implant it. I could be missing something, but I thought only the relic 2.0 could actually bring someone back. But I've only seen the Devil ending once just to see it, I prefer most of the other ones so never went back and played through it a second time.

Edit: I know there is nothing unique about Johnny's engram it's just a normal engram, The chip and its ability to take over a new body is what's a unique prototype.