[SPOILER] Adam Smasher. Character we have lost.

+

Who is mr. Smasher?

  • Big Bad Boss, mindless killing machine

    Votes: 66 74.2%
  • Complex Character, Man who has a story to tell

    Votes: 23 25.8%

  • Total voters
    89
Why Cyberpunk which come from Gibson mind is accurate then? Maybe because Gibson always stays realistic in his fiction?
Because Cyberpunk 2077, come from Cyberpunk 2013, 2020, Red which were created by Mike Pondsmith and R.talsorian. Yes, it's "inspired" by other Cyberpunk works, but nothing more. So it's the same between the Edlers Scrolls games and The Witcher games, both are "heroic fantasy", but are very different in reality...
And you are tool for your employer. So what? We all work for someone. We all have brains. Limbs. Working tools to do our job. Smasher is a sellsword. You are maybe not.
Like I said, in the game, he's presented as a brainless* and merciless killing "machine", which follow Arasaka's orders. So as deep as a sheet of paper. I would say as much as Brendan... Even Delamain is a more deep and complex character^^.
A good comparaison would be with Takemura, who is also an "Arasaka tool", but a "deep" character who have a story to tell.
So Goro gets his hands dirty in the name of principles and ideals, unlike Smasher who do it simply for the pleasure...

*Edit : Brainless is maybe not the right word... At least, it doesn't use it, except for following orders and quench his thirst for blood. He lost his humanity, is more close to AIs than humans and like Melissa Rory, he's simply a cyberpsycho who can still controlling himself.
 
Last edited:
There are a lot of ways, realistic, accepted in sci-fi ways to set limits to a gameplay.

Coolbeans. But this is a paper and pencil RPG system where "style over substance" is the first rule listed in the source book

You want 100% accurate high concept science fiction this isn't it. The emphasis here is on the 'punk' part of 'cyberpunk'.

Actually he's a security chief at Arasaka. Too complicated job for a prosy criminal.

And how'd that work out for him?

*Edit : Brainless is maybe not the right word... At least, it doesn't use it, except for following orders and quench his thirst for blood. He lost his humanity, is more close to AIs than humans and like Melissa Rory, he's simply a cyberpsycho who can still controlling himself.

No, its pretty accurate. Dude's got an INT and TECH score of 4 each
 
Like I said, in the game, he's presented as a brainless* and merciless killing "machine", which follow Arasaka's orders. So as deep as a sheet of paper. I would say as much as Brendan... Even Delamain is a more deep and complex character^^.
A good comparaison would be with Takemura, who is also an "Arasaka tool", but a "deep" character who have a story to tell.
So Goro gets his hands dirty in the name of principles and ideals, unlike Smasher who do it simply for the pleasure...

*Edit : Brainless is maybe not the right word... At least, it doesn't use it, except for following orders and quench his thirst for blood. He lost his humanity, is more close to AIs than humans and like Melissa Rory, he's simply a cyberpsycho who can still controlling himself.
I've already get this point. Smasher is machine, psycho, tool, etc. Because everybody around says so. I don't like to repeat myself. You just took what was given to you. Maybe Pondsmith is just unable to create something deep and detailed. Something of Kirkbride level. It's a matter of talent. But i really respect his deeds, its not a little business to create a game. Even if it was done many times before you and you're using some known principles.

If Mike Pondsmith says Adam is a high-functioning Cyberpsycho, then Adam is a high-functioning Cyberpsycho. No empathy, no humanity (4% meat), he's literally a psychopath welded to power armour. As demonstrated in all current media, his philosophy is basic: "Time for flesh to diiiiiiie!"
That's the reason behind this topic. Pondsmith created a story and named it "Cyberpunk", but i'm not sure he completely understood what Cyberpunk is about. Pondsmith created a 80 years old brute mercenary, but didn't took into consideration how absurd this idea is. Man who has more than an average human lifetime behind, whose deeds are great and terrible (Pondsmith forgot about character's tendency to develop over time), who has experience in many fields beyond human imagination. And this great character is ruined, bound to be "killing machine" and "big bad boss". What a waste.
In my humble opinion CP series including CP2077 is in desperate need of deep and fundamental revision to begin being Cyberpunk, not just be named.
Post automatically merged:



BTW this lady has only 2% of human left. And... she's doing the same job Smasher do. Obviously she is a "brainless and merciless killing machine".
motoko.jpg
 
Last edited:
I've already get this point. Smasher is machine, psycho, tool, etc. Because everybody around says so. I don't like to repeat myself. You just took what was given to you. Maybe Pondsmith is just unable to create something deep and detailed. Something of Kirkbride level. It's a matter of talent. But i really respect his deeds, its not a little business to create a game. Even if it was done many times before you and you're using some known principles.

Or maybe its because Cyberpunk 2020 was intended to provide a backdrop for players to tell their own stories

And as such it didn't bog itself down with unnecesary information that would get in the way of player imagination

That's the reason behind this topic. Pondsmith created a story and named it "Cyberpunk", but i'm not sure he completely understood what Cyberpunk is about. Pondsmith created a 80 years old brute mercenary, but didn't took into consideration how absurd this idea is. Man who has more than an average human lifetime behind, whose deeds are great and terrible (Pondsmith forgot about character's tendency to develop over time), who has experience in many fields beyond human imagination. And this great character is ruined, bound to be "killing machine" and "big bad boss".

Let me refer you back to this:

Coolbeans. But this is a paper and pencil RPG system where "style over substance" is the first rule listed in the source book

You want 100% accurate high concept science fiction this isn't it. The emphasis here is on the 'punk' part of 'cyberpunk'.

Cyberpunk 2020 is not Bladerunner or Neuromancer.

Its less concerned with the scientific plausibility of a cyber implant and more concerned with how cool it is

The concept of Adam Smasher is absurd, and thats the point

BTW this lady has only 2% of human left. And... she's doing the same job Smasher do. Obviously she is a "brainless and merciless killing machine".

You should roll her in Cyberpunk Red and tell me how she does
 
That's the reason behind this topic. Pondsmith created a story and named it "Cyberpunk", but i'm not sure he completely understood what Cyberpunk is about. Pondsmith created a 80 years old brute mercenary, but didn't took into consideration how absurd this idea is. Man who has more than an average human lifetime behind, whose deeds are great and terrible (Pondsmith forgot about character's tendency to develop over time), who has experience in many fields beyond human imagination. And this great character is ruined, bound to be "killing machine" and "big bad boss". What a waste.
Actually, Walter John Williams, a writer of cyberpunk novels, helped with testing the tabletop game. Too bad that back then he didn't tell Pondsmith that his tabletop game is not cyberpunk at all :giveup: Really... Cyberpunk is a sci-fi genre, it is defined by certain elements and for the rest it is all about writer's imagination.
And about Smasher, he is described as having an affinity for violence, sadism, and cruelty even before becoming a cyborg, so I'm not sure what about him is that great.
 
Actually he's a security chief at Arasaka. Too complicated job for a prosy criminal.
People working on strategy and other things are higher on the foodchain, as demonstrated in Cyberpunk 2077: Edgerunners.

Smasher can follow certain procedures and he will because not doing so, would void his contract with Arasaka. He is a blunt tool to solve certain problems and enhanced to the max to do just that and it works because troops, pretty much everyone, but Arasaka family are expendable.
 
And as such it didn't bog itself down with unnecesary information that would get in the way of player imagination
If the game has only necessary information than what for to chew this bones? I wanna meat, something my imagination can dance on. What for is playing such games if you can imagine a way better and richer setting with the help from Gibson works? I dunno really.
 
What is the differnce between a great story and an average one? Dont rush with an answer. Think for a moment, i'll wait

In my humble opinion great story is always a way more complicated than an obvious "Good vs Evil". Maybe you have played such legendary game as Morrowind. In the end you can not be sure about Voryn Dagoth being a villain. Every single person in that story is both villain and victim. Including yourself, your alter-ego. The game offers you developed, deep and unique vision of many people going through the trial of power.

So with an aid of this once expirienced vision i'm looking now at Adam Smasher. The character completely ruined and doomed to be only a "Big Bad Boss". Even if he has nothing in his story to be the one. He's not Frank Horrigan who lost his mind via FEV mutation. No. Adam Smasher is an 80 years old human. Not a madman. Not a machine. Not a maniac. Human nature always leads to obtaining a balance. If someone is sane and in the right mind he will always overcome his daemons. Or he will end up much earlier. Broken mind never lasts long. Adam is alive and he is at very venerable age to be either a freak or a mindless tool of destruction. We can see him as a reasonable person through his messages. But in the end he is only a Big Bad Boss.

We have a character who lived more than half of his life as a full cyborg. Who obviously questioned his own humanity like Major Kusanagi did. Who faced an issue of being more machine than human. Who maybe feels himself a slave or in a hopeless dependence of Arasaka technical support. Who knows more about suffering than many others. Who killed many and got tired from slaughter like any soldier. And who has come to a certain conclussions in his thoughts. This man certainly has a story to tell. His story. Being longer than an average human life this days.

In the end of the story V may face not a mindless killing machine, but a philosopher, a thinker, maybe even a stoic. And V can face many options through the duel of minds with this honorable enemy. Solve this clash with force or with wisdom. Even if Adam draws himself being a zealot like Viktor Marchenko in DX:MD. An opportunity we never had. And will never have. Maybe.

View attachment 11135915
Post automatically merged:
First I want to say that this was for me a good impulse to look more closely to backgrounds of some important figures in Night City. This is someting what I really like on games like Cyberpunk .. there is always something hidden and new to learn (details) if player have fun playing such game for a long time. However regarding quoted post, I really see absolutely nothing why there should be different look on Adam Smasher as to merciless sadistic killing machine (cyborg), which enjoys his doings. He definitelly is not anything what can be called "honorable", not even in a long shot. He is, and in game (and in Edgerunners movie too) it is imo quite decently presented, a tool which is used by his employer, to be final solver of any threat. Imo dealing with Smasher is quite simple in fact, his opponents knows that they can either kill him, or be killed and Smasher will enjoy doing so.
Post automatically merged:
To comparison, as imo really honorable opponent, I would call Sandayu Oda. He imo is complex character and is a serious threat too. However his personality is from another dimension when compared with Adam Smasher.
Post automatically merged:
btw ... here is "Adam Smasher" getting proper treatment ;) ...

 
Last edited:
One thing people dont understand about Adam Smasher is his role in the narrative. He is Death in this "Cyberpunk" fiction. In proper drama Death is inevitable, eternal doom. In fairytale isnt.
 
For god's sake what else to do in this stillborn game if not butchering anything that moves?!
Indeed, those cyberdegenerates deserve to be punished, Silverhand is taking too long burning that awful society to the ground.

"Stillborn" is a good definition for this game, it never reaches its full potential, unlike The Witcher games.
 
/Hijack

Whenever you see a thread that tells how V sucks, consider that it's V who gets to kill Adam Smasher, the villain who slayed countless badass characters in the world where the game takes place.

Let that sink in.
 
One thing people dont understand about Adam Smasher is his role in the narrative. He is Death in this "Cyberpunk" fiction. In proper drama Death is inevitable, eternal doom. In fairytale isnt.
I think you might be over selling him if anything Smasher is nothing more than one of Deaths Reaper at best at worse he is just another tool in the clog of Night City. (Which in my opinion he is)

Smasher is just another death/building block in night city one that give weight to another person legendary status. He is not some complex character he is not death incarnate he was once a human would took pleasure in carnage and the destruction around him, seeking out more of it until becoming what he is now a legend in his own right but only because he is seen as some boogeyman when in reality he is just another clog in the machine of night city
 
Adam Smasher is both a big bad boss who is a mindless killing machine and he still is a complex character who has a story to tell.
Hes considered to be Night City Legend for a reason.

The difference is. He HAD a story to tell. Now he doesnt. His only purpose now is to kill. I dont see anything wrong here.

Adam Smasher left his morals behind a long time ago. He couldnt care less about anyones backstory or whatever. He did care once probably, but like i said. That was a loooong time ago.

Just looking 50 years back, when Adam captured Johnny Silverhand. He was already turning into that psycho machine.
 
/Hijack

Whenever you see a thread that tells how V sucks, consider that it's V who gets to kill Adam Smasher, the villain who slayed countless badass characters in the world where the game takes place.

Let that sink in.
"Unbeatable" psycho Corpo whore gets bested by nobody merc, exactly as he deserves :howdy:
 
Top Bottom